Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[CanadianEh]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I got everything up and running yesterday and I now realize why I love sage so much. XBMC is really "pretty", but without knowing more about how it works it doesn't seem to have the functionality that sage does. Media portal is OK, but the way the tv server is set up is a little odd. XMLTV works, but isn't all that easy to set up (it's not hard, just not as easy as sage).

Media portal and XBMC talk to each other just fine, but getting to guide information requires quite a few clicks. Honestly, EVERYTHING in XBMC requires more clicks than I'd like. A friend assures me this is because of the theme, but with it being a beta pvr build I'm stuck with one theme.

I'll play around with it some more, but I can tell getting the colossus to work with mediaportal won't be all that easy. No HTTP tuning either so I may not even mess with it.

I have little experience in XBMC, however I have fully converted over to MediaPortal, utilizing 3 HD-PVRs and two ATSC tuners over 3 channel lineups. I will agree that the TV Server setup is rather strange, but there are some easy ways to set it up if you do some googling over there. Specifically, you can use the SchedulesDirect plugin to import all of the channels from SD into Mediaportal and then select all of them and assign them to your HD-PVR/Colossus.

I would strongly recommend the SchedulesDirect plugin, as it is the most straightforward EPG plug-in for US/Canada.

As for "no HTTP tuning", again that is not the case. Do a search on the MP forums for "DirecTV SHEF" - it uses the same HTTP tuning parameteres that were available in the Sage-based plugin (I have it controlling two DirecTV boxes flawlessly).

My biggest gripes with MP are the RTSP protocol implementation has some issues at times with picture breakup (there are work-arounds) and the fact that no one has built a UPNP browser plugin - although I don't believe you'll have that issue using XBMC as your front-end.

[Skirge01]

I've been lurking around the XBMC, 4TR, and MP forums for a little while and I'm confused about what 4TR does that MP doesn't (or doesn't do well enough). Now, you've also thrown SD into the mix, so I'm wondering where that comes into play and why! I'm planning to give XBMC and MP a try soon, so I'm trying to gain as much knowledge as possible.

BTW, thanks for the heads up on the HTTP tuning, as that was a major setback when I read that here.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by CanadianEh

I have little experience in XBMC, however I have fully converted over to MediaPortal, utilizing 3 HD-PVRs and two ATSC tuners over 3 channel lineups. I will agree that the TV Server setup is rather strange, but there are some easy ways to set it up if you do some googling over there. Specifically, you can use the SchedulesDirect plugin to import all of the channels from SD into Mediaportal and then select all of them and assign them to your HD-PVR/Colossus.

I would strongly recommend the SchedulesDirect plugin, as it is the most straightforward EPG plug-in for US/Canada.

As for "no HTTP tuning", again that is not the case. Do a search on the MP forums for "DirecTV SHEF" - it uses the same HTTP tuning parameteres that were available in the Sage-based plugin (I have it controlling two DirecTV boxes flawlessly).

My biggest gripes with MP are the RTSP protocol implementation has some issues at times with picture breakup (there are work-arounds) and the fact that no one has built a UPNP browser plugin - although I don't believe you'll have that issue using XBMC as your front-end.

I found that after posting, but thanks anyway. I honestly don't have a real reason for switching away from sage and trying to get this to work, but I can say once PVR support for XBMC is out of beta it will be what I move to once sage finally is done. I still use mine every day for everything and am actually adding clients so I'm in no hurry to learn a new HTPC front (and back) end.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I've been lurking around the XBMC, 4TR, and MP forums for a little while and I'm confused about what 4TR does that MP doesn't (or doesn't do well enough). Now, you've also thrown SD into the mix, so I'm wondering where that comes into play and why! I'm planning to give XBMC and MP a try soon, so I'm trying to gain as much knowledge as possible.

BTW, thanks for the heads up on the HTTP tuning, as that was a major setback when I read that here.

I will say that the MP back end works well and supports every tuner sage does with the exception of cable card. So it is a viable alternative with xbmc as the front end. It isn't quite there yet though, but by the time sage is completely defunct it should be.

[Bagal]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'm confused about what 4TR does that MP doesn't (or doesn't do well enough).

The main thing 4TR does over and above what MP does is that it provides much more advanced scheduling of recordings.

From what I remember about MP you can schedule recordings to be at a particular time each week, on the same channel, on all channels or just record a program anytime it's on, so it covers most of the basics well.

Not only does 4TR provide many more options for scheduling (such as record any program where 'sports' appears in the title or description or record any program with this actor in it) it's also more intelligent, for instance when you tell MP to record a program at 8pm every week, that's what it will do, but if one week the program is on at 7.30pm it won't adjust (at least it never used to, not sure if they've added this since), whereas 4TR will adjust the schedule appropriately. The 4TR website provides a list of the scheduling options: http://4therecord.eu/?q=node/21

4TR also provides a number of clients for managing your schedules: website, management console and system tray app, I used to have the console and system tray apps installed on my laptop so I could see when recordings where starting or setup new ones when I was at work.

Personally I loved using 4TR with MP and if I ever went back to MP I would definitely use it again.

[reggie14]

Ceton just announced that the Echo extender will support DTS. While that's not a terribly exciting feature on its own, I think it implies that the Echo will support some sort of DVD/blu-ray streaming. Otherwise, why bother including that feature?

Still no word on the release date... or price...

[stanger89]

Ceton's reps on AVS have all but said it will support DVD/BD/MKV, the big thing I've been waiting for them to confirm/answer is if it will support that with Vanilla 7MC, or if there's some "magic" that enables that in the Q-specific software.

[BobbyDing]

Whiteman Technology Delta DVR:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21930579


http://www.whitemantechnology.com/

More players entering the field....

[mistergq]

Originally Posted by BobbyDing

Whiteman Technology Delta DVR:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post21930579


http://www.whitemantechnology.com/

More players entering the field....

This is conceptional what I always thought the next generation of Sage should look like. Have the turner with cable card, large hard drive, and multiple room support, plug and play.

[stanger89]

And no good extenders?

[reggie14]

From what I've gathered from reading the posts on AVS, it sounds like it's not a true multi-room DVR. You need to have a DVR at each TV. And, while you can watch recordings on another DVR, they won't coordinate with each other.

I don't see why anyone building a new high-tech DVR today wouldn't set it up with a client-server model. Unless DRM is getting in the way.

[stanger89]

I thought it was just Windows Media Center, with all the same features/limitations, plus some stuff bolted on top, and running Windows 7 Embedded and prepackaged.

Essentially it sounds (at a high level) just like the Ceton Q, except without any work done on the Extender front.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by reggie14

... Unless DRM is getting in the way.

Isn't that why there are no Microsoft Media Center servers? DRM by definition prohibits that?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by reggie14

From what I've gathered from reading the posts on AVS, it sounds like it's not a true multi-room DVR. You need to have a DVR at each TV. And, while you can watch recordings on another DVR, they won't coordinate with each other.

I don't see why anyone building a new high-tech DVR today wouldn't set it up with a client-server model. Unless DRM is getting in the way.

Sounds like it has the exact functionality of a current Tivo. Not all that special on the DVR front.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Isn't that why there are no Microsoft Media Center servers? DRM by definition prohibits that?

Not if the extender is DRM compliant, which media center extenders are. The problem is that for those of us coming from SageTV, media center extenders suck compared to a SageTV extender because they're very limited in the formats that they play (eg, no BD ISOs, just a few specific rip formats). That's why people are so interested in the Q/Echo. The Echo may be the first Media Center extender that does not suck.

Drew

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by drewg

Not if the extender is DRM compliant, which media center extenders are. The problem is that for those of us coming from SageTV, media center extenders suck compared to a SageTV extender because they're very limited in the formats that they play (eg, no BD ISOs, just a few specific rip formats). That's why people are so interested in the Q/Echo. The Echo may be the first Media Center extender that does not suck.

Drew

Right, but why can't MC extenders schedule recordings? I have been testing 7MC with my xbox 360, and can't schedule recordings from the 360. If 7MC was a "Server" based application then clients like the 360 could schedule recordings, no? This has always been a little confusing to me - MS always leads you to the door but then locks it..

Let's hope the Echo is much better.

Thanks

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Right, but why can't MC extenders schedule recordings? I have been testing 7MC with my xbox 360, and can't schedule recordings from the 360. If 7MC was a "Server" based application then clients like the 360 could schedule recordings, no? This has always been a little confusing to me - MS always leads you to the door but then locks it..

Let's hope the Echo is much better.

Thanks

I have to think that the Echo will have quite a bit more functionality than the xbox. If not, then what's the point?

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Right, but why can't MC extenders schedule recordings? I have been testing 7MC with my xbox 360, and can't schedule recordings from the 360. If 7MC was a "Server" based application then clients like the 360 could schedule recordings, no? This has always been a little confusing to me - MS always leads you to the door but then locks it..

Let's hope the Echo is much better.

Thanks

Are you really using it as an extender, or just viewing the media files? I played with it a few months back, and there was a special extender mode it goes into where it looks just like 7MC running on a windows box, and you can schedule recordings, etc.

Drew

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

Right, but why can't MC extenders schedule recordings? I have been testing 7MC with my xbox 360, and can't schedule recordings from the 360. If 7MC was a "Server" based application then clients like the 360 could schedule recordings, no? This has always been a little confusing to me - MS always leads you to the door but then locks it..

You're not just browsing recordings from the Xbox dashboard are you. You need to go into "Media Center" on the Xbox to access the extender functionality. You have to "register" your 360 with the WMC machine for that to work. I'm 99% sure you get full DVR functionality on Windows Media Center extenders. You get the full WMC UI.

What you can't do on extenders is play stuff like DVDs, or BDs, or MKVs (without some transcoding/remuxing). The Ceton rep on AVS Forum has "implied" that the Echo will support formats like that but not officially confirmed if, or which ones will be.

Now that our local "good" cable company is running fiber in my neighborhood, I'm starting to get excited about the Q/Echo.

[Skybolt]

Yep, launching WMC from within the xbox GUI, registered with 7MC.

Perhaps I missed something on the guide for recording future shows. But then again I haven't been using it for much. Only testing the "Just in Case". I'll have to give it another look, my last bout was so painfully slow I more or less gave up. Thanks for clearing that up though.

I have been following the AVS thread about the echo as well, can't wait to hear more.