Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[KJake]

I got a new TV last week (yay!), but it wasn't to replace an existing one. Of course, I was immediately sad because I don't have any Sage extenders laying around.

This is my first DNLA set, so I got to work finding a DNLA server to setup to serve my Sage files.

I have to say, if you're really opposed to switching to anything else from Sage, and don't want to pay eBay prices for another extender, this isn't a terrible way to be able to at least _watch_ your recordings on a TV that doesn't have an extender.

Serviio does a decent job of metadata scraping and organizing things into series folders even. So it's not half bad.

Even with the work of setting it up, and dealing with making a new profile for my TV (to properly transcode, remux, or do nothing to files), I still ended up on eBay and got a used HD300 coming my way.

You really can't beat a good extender

[ranger]

If your TV is a Samsung or LG, there are PLEX clients available for them.

[KJake]

Originally Posted by ranger

If your TV is a Samsung or LG, there are PLEX clients available for them.

I ended up getting a Panasonic. Samsung probably has a better DNLA and App selection, but I decided to look more at price-point, PQ, durability, and overall ratings. For me, that ended up being a set with no 3D and very little Apps - but the main important ones (Netflix, Amazon, Pandora, DNLA).

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by KJake

I ended up getting a Panasonic. Samsung probably has a better DNLA and App selection, but I decided to look more at price-point, PQ, durability, and overall ratings. For me, that ended up being a set with no 3D and very little Apps - but the main important ones (Netflix, Amazon, Pandora, DNLA).

I can tell you from experience that Panasonic and Samsung are the two best when it comes to TV's. Panasonic has an edge over PQ and durability, but not much of one. Good choice

[aflat]

The big winner for me is Samsung only because the newer sets can decode DTS. Since I only have HD200's, that makes 1 less piece of equipment I need in the bedroom.

[cat6man]

I just found an interesting link that goes into more detail on Ceton's Q and echo that were announced at CES.

http://thedigitallifestyle.com/w/ind...indows-8-apps/


As I see it, the echo would take the place of my hd300s and the Q would take the place of my sageTV PC, STBs, HDHRs and HDPVRs

Now if the Q isn't too expensive, i save the cost of 3 STBs each month but do have to pay for a (single, or do you need 2?) multichannel cable card (not sure what fios charges for those)............hdhr and hdpvr are, of course, sunk costs (and have paid their way nicely, if i may say so).

i am in no rush to move off of sage7 as this really does what i want right now, but i see this as the challenge jeff/sage/google have to respond to.

1. cheap extender (hd300, echo)
2. premium content agnostic (i.e. cable card embedded, just works, replaces STBs and tuners with single box 6-tuner capability shared with all extenders)
3. expandable storage (Q claims a 2TB drive with usb3 and estata extension)


Ceton showed this at CES but only said '2012' for availability and 'nada yet' for pricing, so Jeff et al have some time it seems. Right now, I'll bet on Jeff/sage/google

[wayner]

The "new" green button has a long thread on this with inut from some of the folks at Ceton - see here http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/...hp?f=30&t=1223

[flavius]

^Did you learn anything new from that thread?

[wayner]

The main thing that I learned is that the folks from Ceton are actively engaged with their potential customers and appear to be listening to suggestions. That is very much like Sage has been historically and very unlike Microsoft.

I take that as a good sign for this product - but it is useless to me since Canadian cable cos refuse to give CableCards to their customers.

The one potentially useful feature is that it appears that the Echo should work as an extender for regular PC based WinMC systems.

[Biggen]

I'm not sure how you guys feel, but I am betting the house on Ceton to come through with the "Q" and Echo devices. I'd be able to purchase the "Q" and replace my SageTV server with that unit. I could then convert my SageTV server into a NAS for my movies.

Then I could buy the echo's to replace the HD-300's. Man I'm excited. I hope Ceton doesn't let us down with buggy hardware/software.

[stanger89]

I'd be a lot more excited about the Q/Echo if there where a chance in ... that it would support Dish or DTV (ie via the HD PVR). I'd be more excited if there was some sort of confirmation that the Echo won't be functionally identical to current extenders when not paired with the Q.

Right now I'd say I'm guessing it's about a 50/50 shot that the Echo will/won't be any better than the Xbox when paired with a 7MC machine vs the Q, and in that case it's basically worthless to me.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'd be a lot more excited about the Q/Echo if there where a chance in ... that it would support Dish or DTV (ie via the HD PVR). I'd be more excited if there was some sort of confirmation that the Echo won't be functionally identical to current extenders when not paired with the Q.

Right now I'd say I'm guessing it's about a 50/50 shot that the Echo will/won't be any better than the Xbox when paired with a 7MC machine vs the Q, and in that case it's basically worthless to me.

Really? I haven't seen an Xbox that didn't choke on a full bitrate Blu-ray rip (my entire media collection is 1:1 .mkv rips). And I haven't seen a fanless Xbox that was also the size/form factor of the Echo or an HD-300.

Don't get me wrong, I think the 360 is a good alternative now if you want an extender... But only because it is the ONLY extender on the market. Soon we have the Echo with the "Q" that has six tuners, can also interface with Echo's, play all sorts of media (presumably), built in BD player, WMC interface, 2TB of DVR storage...

I agree with you that it will be unfortunate that it probably won't work with satellite service. Secondly, I am also making some assumptions about the Echo but I can't believe that it would offer the same basic service as an Xbox or HD-300. What the hell use would it be if it were only baseline?

I hope your wrong in your 50/50 prediction, Stanger!

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Biggen

Really? I haven't seen an Xbox that didn't choke on a full bitrate Blu-ray rip (my entire media collection is 1:1 .mkv rips).

That's exactly my point, nobody has confirmed that the superior media support isn't through some non-standard functionality that it unque to the Q, ie that it will work with a "standard" Windows Media Center PC.

And given the Q is almost certain to not support Dish or DTV in any way shape or form, advanced media support through 7MC is an absolute requirement for me to get at all excited about it.

Don't get me wrong, I think the 360 is a good alternative now if you want an extender... But only because it is the ONLY extender on the market. Soon we have the Echo with the "Q" that has six tuners, can also interface with Echo's,

Those tuners are worthless for those of us without Cable.

...play all sorts of media (presumably), built in BD player, WMC interface, 2TB of DVR storage...

Again, all worthless (for me and those without Cable) if that media support doesn't work with 7MC.

I agree with you that it will be unfortunate that it probably won't work with satellite service. Secondly, I am also making some assumptions about the Echo but I can't believe that it would offer the same basic service as an Xbox or HD-300. What the hell use would it be if it were only baseline?

I hope your wrong in your 50/50 prediction, Stanger!

Let me be clear, if I were on Cable, I'd be jumping up and down in my seat for the Q+Echo, Eric from Ceton has said enough for me to be comfortable that the Q+Echo will be something special and support tons of media. But I'm not on cable, cable here is the worst solution in the world, the HD selection is pathetic (on Dish only one network I ever watch, and it's only one show, is not in HD) reliability is crap, and the company is even worse.

Given switching to cable is a non-starter, I'm at best 50/50 on the Echo because there has been no confirmation it will be any better, functionality wise, than the Xbox 360 when paired with a 7MC machine, that it doesn't need some Ceton magic (only available with the Q as a server) to play DVDs/BDs.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by stanger89

That's exactly my point, nobody has confirmed that the superior media support isn't through some non-standard functionality that it unque to the Q, ie that it will work with a "standard" Windows Media Center PC.

And given the Q is almost certain to not support Dish or DTV in any way shape or form, advanced media support through 7MC is an absolute requirement for me to get at all excited about it.

Those tuners are worthless for those of us without Cable.

Again, all worthless (for me and those without Cable) if that media support doesn't work with 7MC.

Let me be clear, if I were on Cable, I'd be jumping up and down in my seat for the Q+Echo, Eric from Ceton has said enough for me to be comfortable that the Q+Echo will be something special and support tons of media. But I'm not on cable, cable here is the worst solution in the world, the HD selection is pathetic (on Dish only one network I ever watch, and it's only one show, is not in HD) reliability is crap, and the company is even worse.

Given switching to cable is a non-starter, I'm at best 50/50 on the Echo because there has been no confirmation it will be any better, functionality wise, than the Xbox 360 when paired with a 7MC machine, that it doesn't need some Ceton magic (only available with the Q as a server) to play DVDs/BDs.

I understand where you are coming from. But as small as the homebuild DVR niche population is on cable, imagine how small it is on satellite service? I suppose they want to build a product that works for the majority and since they already know how to build M-card tuners I guess this would be the next logical extension to that kind of product.

I don't know where satellite customers like you will end up down the road. I don't see an alternative other than HDPVR's or Colossus's for recording and we all are too aware of the bugs that the latter has been plagued with.

Who knows, perhaps the Echo will work with Hauppauge. We really know very little about it at this point... I guess 50/50 is better than nothing at all, right? A year ago we couldn't have even held this conversation as there was NOTHING else on the market that could do what Sage could do. At least now we have a challenger.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Biggen

At least now we have a challenger.

A year ago we at least still had Sage.. :-)

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Biggen

I understand where you are coming from. But as small as the homebuild DVR niche population is on cable, imagine how small it is on satellite service? I suppose they want to build a product that works for the majority and since they already know how to build M-card tuners I guess this would be the next logical extension to that kind of product.

I'm not saying they shouldn't, or that they should do satellite, only that the current extenders are worthless to me (with no media support) and if the Echo requires the Q do more than that, then given I'm on satellite, then the Echo is equally worthless to me.

I don't know where satellite customers like you will end up down the road. I don't see an alternative other than HDPVR's or Colossus's for recording and we all are too aware of the bugs that the latter has been plagued with.

My HD PVR works just fine (haven't really played with my Collossus that much). Otherwise the HR34 from DTV looks rather interesting.

Who knows, perhaps the Echo will work with Hauppauge. We really know very little about it at this point... I guess 50/50 is better than nothing at all, right?

Well, actually I'm probably more optimistic about Sage's future than the Echo at this point.

A year ago we couldn't have even held this conversation as there was NOTHING else on the market that could do what Sage could do. At least now we have a challenger.

A year ago I didn't even care, I had SageTV and it was under active development, and I had no reason to expect that any bugs I found wouldn't get fixed.

Well now I've got some (minor) bugs with HBR bitstreaming that only a new solution (either from Sage/Google or someone else) will fix.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by Biggen

I understand where you are coming from. But as small as the homebuild DVR niche population is on cable, imagine how small it is on satellite service? ...

I realize I've made statements about this in the past and have been summarily dismissed, but my concept of a SageTV Alternative is something that a) allows one to capture and play back live TV and b) can accept input from a set-top-box that would otherwise be directed to a display (TV, projector or monitor). From my perspective a) is an absolute requirement, but many of the posters here don't seem to agree. I also consider part b) to be mission-critical, as it requires the alternative to be hardware independent. I'm a DirecTV customer and have no use at all for cable or any of the options providers may be incorporating into their boxes.

I think any discussion that recommends that one scrap satellite programming for a local cable provider is not really focused on a true Sage Alternative ...

[davephan]

The Centon "Q" Entertainment and Echo Media Center Extender at least provides some hope for the SageTV community. All we have heard about the future of GoogleTV is silence. The crickets are chipping in the total silence. It could be many years, or may never happen at all. I own the Logitech GoogleTV, and it is absolutely not a replacement for SageTV at all. The hope is fading...

There are several YouTube videos that talk about the Centon devices. They do not give a release date, it is close to release level, but they do say it will be released in 2012. The Centon "Q" will work with the Ceton CableCARD, and uses Windows Media Center. The Centon will have an eSATA port to expand the disk space, but it does not look like it will support mapped drives. I don't know if Windows Media Center will support mapped drives to expand the storage past only two hard drives.

I was told that someone who wants massive amounts of DVR storage, different types of tuners, and lots of customization features will likely be happier with a PC with Windows 7 Media Center running one or more of our InfiniTV 4 quad-tuner devices. The Centon firmware supports up to 12 CableCARD tuners per PC (e.g. 3 InfiniTV 4 devices).

Centon said that the "Q" will not support ATSC tuners. CableCARD tuners are their forté and "Q" and they are focusing on that. They said that on a WMC PC you can mix and match InfiniTV CableCARD tuners and ATSC ones however.

I also asked about watching live, delayed TV and Comskip. You can watch live TV on "Q", you don’t need to wait for a show to end to start watching. They did not answer my question about Comskip. Perhaps if it will not work with Comskip, maybe Comskip could be used outside WMC to automatically edit out detected commercials with VideoReDo after the recordings have completed.

Dave

[flavius]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well, actually I'm probably more optimistic about Sage's future than the Echo at this point.

According to http://gigaom.com/2012/02/03/what-is...le-is-testing/ Google has started testing something.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by davephan

They did not answer my question about Comskip. Perhaps if it will not work with Comskip, maybe Comskip could be used outside WMC to automatically edit out detected commercials with VideoReDo after the recordings have completed.

The problem with comskip and CableCard is that if the content is flagged copy-once, comskip can't open the files to scan them, nor can VRD.

Originally Posted by flavius

According to http://gigaom.com/2012/02/03/what-is...le-is-testing/ Google has started testing something.

Yup, and that's why I've moved to more optimistic about Sage than less.