Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jchiso

HTPCs aren't the source of the pain: it's Windows. That's why I'd would prefer an Alternative that can run on a Linux platform.

From what I've seen Linux is more painful for video playback.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by stanger89

From what I've seen Linux is more painful for video playback.

I don't know the HD300's seem to do a pretty good job

[panteragstk]

I just don't really have issues with video playback anymore. I only have windows clients. Granted, I did quite a lot of research/experimenting to get to this point, but my issues are now related to things like the WMC netflix player sucking because sage is hogging all of the texture memory (maybe?) and sage going slower than it used to. I think that is due to an almost full SSD, but I've been too lazy to experiment. I need a larger SSD anyway, so I'll mess with it then.

Having said all that I am eager to see what the new Ceton setup has to offer. I really like DirecTV so I hope it will be compatible, but since sage works well now I don't plan on migrating any time soon.

[ybrew]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Having said all that I am eager to see what the new Ceton setup has to offer. I really like DirecTV so I hope it will be compatible, but since sage works well now I don't plan on migrating any time soon.

If I had to guess, I'd guess DTV won't be compatible at all. I think DTV, at least for the short-term, has their sights set on the HMC HD DVR and their own multiroom viewing solution. I think they'll view that as their alternative to the CETON, and they'll be successful in marketing that to folks that don't want to switch to cable, but I think they're likely to lose some customers as a result of this.

I need to look at costs and do a real comparison, but from what I've seen so far from this and the Ubuntu TV, I'll have to take a serious look at ditching DirecTV.

(now, if I'm mistaken and they play nice with these 3rd party DVR/Whole Home solutions, great. Time will tell)

[panteragstk]

If directv would do something other than dvr (internet video, local video with a decent interface) then I'd just use my current dvr for all that. I don't really see that happening. I'm not really understanding why all the companies are either producing a dvr, or a media streamer/player not an all-in-one solution like we all would love to have. Ceton seems to be the only ones that see that model in their sights. It will be a niche just like sage/wmc/npvr/mythtv/etc but if they do it correctly it could open the world we've come to love to the general population. It may only be compatible with CableCARD, and if that is the case when the time comes I may have to seriously consider switching to cable. I won't like missing out on sunday ticket and college sports, but that is really all I'd be missing if I went to time warner or someone else.

Why can't all this just be simple?

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by stanger89

From what I've seen Linux is more painful for video playback.

I agree. That's the conundrum. You can get extender-like playback on a Windows box, but with annoyances, or you get OS-unobtrusive, crappy video playback from a Linux box. I like to hold out hope that someday someone can figure out Linux's video playback issues ...

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I don't know the HD300's seem to do a pretty good job

That's because it's not using any linux software/libraries to decode, it's got a hardware video decoder

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by stanger89

That's because it's not using any linux software/libraries to decode, it's got a hardware video decoder

Which means that linux has the support for hardware decoding (which is what windows uses). Albeit, linux doesn't have driver support for every possible hardware solution known to mankind, like windows does

I'd probably consider using a linux client for sagetv (instead of an extender)... if sagetv actually provided one I'd guess the reason to NOT provide a client for linux is more about economics, rather than video playback performance. (I suspect that there re more MythTV users than SageTV users, and they are playing back HD video on linux)

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Which means that linux has the support for hardware decoding (which is what windows uses). Albeit, linux doesn't have driver support for every possible hardware solution known to mankind, like windows does

Actually it's different, I'm not talking hardware accelerated (DXVA or CUVID) decoding rendering to a normal PC framebuffer, I'm talking full hardware chip that does everything from decoding to rendering and can frame lock the output to the decoded input, including native resolution output and ability to skip/disable deinterlacing.

I'd probably consider using a linux client for sagetv (instead of an extender)... if sagetv actually provided one I'd guess the reason to NOT provide a client for linux is more about economics, rather than video playback performance. (I suspect that there re more MythTV users than SageTV users, and they are playing back HD video on linux)

They released Placeshifter for linux, but it sucked, largely due to linux's limitations (as far as I gather). As far as I can tell Linux is a disaster for playback, PC software decoding (eg ffmpeg/mplayer) is just not very good, hardware accellerated on linux VDPAU and the like are just a mess getting drivers and everything to work. The best looking thing linux wise is something like XBMC with the Broadcom hardware decoder.

[ybrew]

This was posted over in the Sage at CES thread. Worth sharing over here too.

No details, but it's something...

Originally Posted by Narflex

I still work on SageTV every day along with the whole team from SageTV before it was bought. SageTV is not dead. Ohhh....I wish I could say more...but that time has not come yet....

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Actually it's different, I'm not talking hardware accelerated (DXVA or CUVID) decoding rendering to a normal PC framebuffer, I'm talking full hardware chip that does everything from decoding to rendering and can frame lock the output to the decoded input, including native resolution output and ability to skip/disable deinterlacing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that pretty much what the old xcard was from back in the day?

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by stanger89

... The best looking thing linux wise is something like XBMC with the Broadcom hardware decoder.

On a somewhat-related note. Does the Broadcom decoder work with Sage in a Windows Client or with a Linux Placeshifter? I've been thinking about giving one a shot ...

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by jchiso

Does the Broadcom decoder work with Sage in a Windows Client.

Broadcom decoder in Windows becomes available as a directshow filter which you choose in Sage settings for playback.

I have set up a few and never found the Broadcom decoder to be powerful enough. As a comparison, Nvidia ion gen 1 worked better then the Broadcom cards that I used.

Currently I am trying the HD 6310 embedded video in Windows and I am happy so far.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jerryt

I have set up a few and never found the Broadcom decoder to be powerful enough.

You talking this Broadcom decoder?
http://xbmc.org/davilla/2009/12/29/b...-hd-its-magic/

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You talking this Broadcom decoder?
http://xbmc.org/davilla/2009/12/29/b...-hd-its-magic/

Yes, the BCM970012, mini-PCIE card.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by jerryt

Yes, the BCM970012, mini-PCIE card.

The difference is that those cards are decoders, not renderers. They appear as directshow decoders, but the video itself still has to go through the evr or vmr renderers to be displayed. This is different than how the extenders chips work, where they are sent the encoded stream, and handle everything from there.

[owilsky]

Long time SageTV user here, I was looking for alternatives the last months. I think I will move on to MediaPortal as it is open source, has a server/client model, plugins and has a really great community which is very helpful. (I don't need extenders).

For those who looked at MP in the past and want to know what improved 2011 here's a nice overview:
http://www.team-mediaportal.com/team...pments-of-2011

Please note that stability improved a lot in 2011.

[flavius]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

...I'm not really understanding why all the companies are either producing a dvr, or a media streamer/player not an all-in-one solution like we all would love to have. Ceton seems to be the only ones that see that model in their sights. It will be a niche just like sage/wmc/npvr/mythtv/etc but if they do it correctly it could open the world we've come to love to the general population. It may only be compatible with CableCARD, and if that is the case when the time comes I may have to seriously consider switching to cable. ..
Why can't all this just be simple?

Eric, the Ceton guy implied on avsforum that they see themselves competing with TiVo with this new solution. That's a huge market.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by flavius

Eric, the Ceton guy implied on avsforum that they see themselves competing with TiVo with this new solution. That's a huge market.

I can see that. What they need to do to compete in that market is market the crap out of this product. It will need to have in-store demos in the big box stores for anyone to notice. When I sold electronics a few years ago people almost never bought Tivo's. Their logic was why pay extra for something my cable company gives me? Not an easy market to tap into.

[SomeWhatLost]

in this thread there are quite a few how say they got 'burned' by sage/proprietary software/hardware... so they are switching to open...

in the last 10 years or so I have been into this whole HTPC type thing I have seen proprietary software/hardware come and go, and I have also seen open software(mostly, there may have been some hardware at some point too...) come and go too... in both cases there are people switching 'sides'

so one question I have is where do the people who have been burned by both open & proprietary go?

whatever happened to just going with whatever solution creates the best end user experience?

I have extenders, 2 HD200's & 2 HD300's, so I guess I am "tied into the sagetv solution."
but how tied am I really? 2 x hd200 = 2 x $189 (I think?) + 2 x hd300 = 2 x $150 = total 'Sage tie in' of just $678... ( hmm... I could probably come close to breaking even just by ebay'ing my hd300's...)

my first HTPC cost more than that... the HTPC I built just before switching to sage + extenders cost more than that... and that is just for one 'zone'...
I fail to see how I am either burned or locked in...
besides, this whole time I have had a very nice unified whole house media solution like no other... and it still works just dandy...
but I am still looking for an alternative, just in case... but it really does need to be an improvement over what I already have... I feel no compelling reason to 'settle' for less than I currently have...

maybe I just am not looking at this correctly? how should I be looking at this?