Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[emveepee]

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting any SageTV user move to an alternate anytime soon. I was just offering my opinion going back to the OP hypothetical question that there truly are good alternatives, besides the cable and satellite STB's. Since all of the comments about what NextPVR can't do (linux server aside, there is a linux client) are wrong, and I see some MP and MythTV challenges on there features too, it only reaffirms my point that you can't use the responses in this long thread as proof that there only is the SageTV option.

Martin

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Bagal

You know, I think a lot of this is just based on point of view, for instance I could look at the SageTV service as being an external app to the SageTV client even though you could have them running on the same box...

But I'm not talking about being different processes/executables, I'm talking about different programs. With MediaPortal/XBMC you've got to run an entirely separate application, with separate configuration, (and then configuration on top of that to get the UI to talk to the other app).

With SageTV using the service is completely seamless, with these other solutions, it's extra programs, databases, and plugins that are needed just to get TV working.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by wayner

PiX64 if working on a metadata scraper to pull all of the metadata out of Sage and into Plex for TV recordings. Once that is working then half of the battle is solved, assuming that your Plex client can play back the files. You can't schedule, recordings, etc but there are lots of other ways to do that, including using web and mobile web plugins.

Here's a good example of how some users' needs are different. I could never get away with deploying something that lacked easy access to live TV and an on-screen EPG. My fiance and I both watch a significant amount of live or nearly live TV, and she, in particular, browses through the EPG a lot looking for things to record.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by wayner

I agree that Plex looks better and is available on far more platforms - Boxee is going to their own hardware only. Plex has clients for Mac, Win, iOS and Android. Plex also works on Roku and on some TVs - although it may not playback all file types.

Does anybody know on what devices Plex is capable of properly playing back MPEG2-PS content? Eg, OTA HD as recorded by SageTV using an HDHR, or other ATSC tuner?

I have a flagship LG Plasma TV that I bought partially because I was sold on the "medialink" hype. It turns out that the TV's Plex app cannot fast-forward (or rewind, or skip) in MPEG2-PS files. So while it can "play" them, it is mostly useless, as you cannot skip commercials, or even pick up where you left off after watching part of a recording.

My understanding is that the Apple TV 2 is 720P, and doesn't playback MPEG2, so that's a non-starter.

I've heard somewhere that some (all?) Rokus are like the ATV2, and do not support MPEG2.

Drew

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Here's a good example of how some users' needs are different. I could never get away with deploying something that lacked easy access to live TV and an on-screen EPG. My fiance and I both watch a significant amount of live or nearly live TV, and she, in particular, browses through the EPG a lot looking for things to record.

It isn't a complete solution yet. It is a very early attempt at making some sort of front end to expand existing setups.

I've looked at the alternatives and haven't found anything that does everything I want. There is always something missing. Sage doesn't necessarily do everything I want, but that is why I have a client pc. I can add to it to make it a complete solution. I'd rather not have to re-learn everything on another platform unless I absolutely have to.

[wayner]

You are somewhat safer with PC clients since you can reuse your license on new hardware if your hardware dies. And hopefully Google will release client licenses in the future when they realize that they have changed direction and realize that the best aspects of Sage are not relevant with where they are going in the future. (That is not a criticism of Sage, Jeff et al, it is just my opinion that the key feature of Sage was PVRing TV with no DRM for local storage and that likely doesn't fit with where Google, or any large corporate, wants to go in the future)

[amt]

So, it sounds like the only things missing for MythTV are:

1) extender hardware
2) Fully functional Windows server (and Colossus)

Regarding the extender, if there was a single install software package (OS and MythTV) for a PC, and the PC behaved just like an extender (no tinkering with the OS, no login, just full screen MythTV only), would that satisfy the extender need then?

[stanger89]

If it could do native output switching, and output raw video, but I've never seen a PC capable of that.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

If it could do native output switching, and output raw video, but I've never seen a PC capable of that.

What do you mean you've never seen a PC capable of that? PC's can change output resolution just as anything else. As for 'Output raw video', I'm not sure I understand what that means.

[stanger89]

You can change output resolutions but there's no way around the fact that the frame buffer is a progressive surface, there's no way to preserve interlacing through the frame buffer, you can't bypass/skip/disable deinterlacing on a PC. You can kinda-sorta emulate it by setting the deinterlacing method to be Weave, but it's not the same as true native output/source direct output.

[ChePazzo]

What we need is for Google to throw us a friggin' bone. They're not making money off of us right now, so why not just let us know:
- If they plan to continue the EPG beyond the promised 1-year (even in a paid form)
- If the next Google TV offering will be able to be used as a Sage Extender

Those are really the two pieces that I would need to continue to use Sage indefinitely (until Comcast goes video-over-IP and all tuners become obsolete).

If nothing else, I just want Google to let us know if they are going to abandon us or if we should stick around. I can be patient and wait for something, but if I'm eventually going to have to move on, I'd like to start preparing. If I knew that something was coming (either hw compatible with my Sage server or sw that was compatible with my HDHR and Extenders) then I wouldn't waste any time even considering other options and just enjoy what I have now while I wait for the new hotness.

However if they allow too many of us to move on simply because we haven't heard and gave it up for dead and then a year later, they come out with sagetv integrated into GoogleTV or something, then how many would flock back and buy this new product?

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by drewg

There might be hope with the realtek based rtd1073 boxes (Asus Oh!Play, Patriot Box Office, etc). Apparently there's a guy who's written a very minimal MythTV client interface for it which supports EPG w/scheduling, playing recordings w/comskip, and deleting recordings. He's very secretive about the project; probably does not want to support a lot of people. See http://www.patriotmemory.com/forums/...p/t-6617.html?

Thanks for the info, I contacted him, and might get a PBO to try it out and see if I can get an NextPVR client on it. I've actually talked to him before since he wrote a client for the Roku Sound Bridge which I modified to work with GBPVR. This was well before the HD100 so it likely was the first HD extender with MythTV and GBPVR clients. Too bad Roku stopped selling it, it was great for early HD.

Martin

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by ChePazzo

If nothing else, I just want Google to let us know if they are going to abandon us or if we should stick around. I can be patient and wait for something, but if I'm eventually going to have to move on, I'd like to start preparing. If I knew that something was coming (either hw compatible with my Sage server or sw that was compatible with my HDHR and Extenders) then I wouldn't waste any time even considering other options and just enjoy what I have now while I wait for the new hotness.

If I were the betting type, I would bet that whatever Google comes up with will not be compatible with anything carrying the SageTV brand name. I think best case (and not terribly likely) is that they come out with something similarly cool but incompatible.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by amt

Regarding the extender, if there was a single install software package (OS and MythTV) for a PC, and the PC behaved just like an extender (no tinkering with the OS, no login, just full screen MythTV only), would that satisfy the extender need then?

I would add - virtually silent and a boot time of about 20 seconds to that list.

Maybe this is just me but i have also found configuration to be a little bit trickier for PC clients vs extenders. For example, it is not always clear when you have to install the plugin on the client as well as the server. And then you have the issue of getting smooth playback which can also be an issue on some clients.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by ChePazzo

Those are really the two pieces that I would need to continue to use Sage indefinitely (until Comcast goes video-over-IP and all tuners become obsolete).

All tuners will not be obsolete - OTA tuners will continue to work until OTA disappears. And as long as you can get a cable or satellite box with active component outputs then you are good for cable in SageTV. And that is ignoring decrypting DHMI outputs.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by wayner

All tuners will not be obsolete - OTA tuners will continue to work until OTA disappears. And as long as you can get a cable or satellite box with active component outputs then you are good for cable in SageTV. And that is ignoring decrypting DHMI outputs.

You're even more stable in the sat realm. The current sat boxes already have all the capabilities the sat companies will need for a long time coming (the upgrade to H.264 is done). The only thing the newer boxes are adding are the dvr and media server type capabilities. The basic single tuner HD receivers will remain the same for quite some time. Heck, I don't think either even have HDCP on their HDMI outputs yet.

[amt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You can change output resolutions but there's no way around the fact that the frame buffer is a progressive surface, there's no way to preserve interlacing through the frame buffer, you can't bypass/skip/disable deinterlacing on a PC. You can kinda-sorta emulate it by setting the deinterlacing method to be Weave, but it's not the same as true native output/source direct output.

Good point. I think the only way to do this on a PC would be to get a blackmagic HDMI card and write your own code to display from that. That's a ton of work. And then you very likely don't have a small form factor any more.

However, I am not sure if not getting true interlaced signal is such a big deal. You have to have something else in your video chain that does it a lot better than the PC. The Nvidia chipsets have a lot of de-interlacing options that are quite good IMO. With MythTV, you can choose which type of de-interlacing you want. You can also map different source resolutions to different output reoslutions.

I am starting to think the extender like the PBO is better alternative than a appliance-PC. Just need to see if it can be morphed in to a super-user friendly, feature rich and glitch free. $80 per extender would be nice.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by amt

However, I am not sure if not getting true interlaced signal is such a big deal. You have to have something else in your video chain that does it a lot better than the PC.

Like a Genum VXP video processor

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Heck, I don't think either even have HDCP on their HDMI outputs yet.

They sure don't

Originally Posted by stanger89

Like a Genum VXP video processor

That would be a good example...

[Fuzzy]

deinterlacing really only matters for interlacd material.... and really, why are you watching interlaced material?