Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[95TBird]

For our main viewing area I run direct off the server (only 25 feet to the basement so just ran a long HDMI cable & USB cable for the IR) & we have an xbox in the bedroom (My movie transcodes the ripped DVDs so they play on the xbox)

-Bruce

[panteragstk]

I've been doing a lot of thinking and I have an idea. I know everyone isn't happy about the possibility of sage not existing in it's current form (I am one of those), and google purchasing sage just for the pvr backend. I honestly think this could be a good thing in the end. In theory we could have an android powered stb that has the current recording functionality we all know and love, but wouldn't work the same way as far as drm and recording storage. That part kind of sucks, but I'm not one to keep all of my recordings anyway so no big deal for me. I watch them and delete them. I can live with that. What I can't live without is being able to expand my recording drives. Hopefully they won't be stupid enough to limit that ability. The other things I can't live without is the ability to watch all of my local media with all it's meta-data goodness in a nice ui to display the aforementioned goodness like I can with sage in it's current form. I know there are alternatives to sage that can do the same, but I like what I have.

Having said all of that here is my idea (or hope). We have the above google tv/android powered stb with sagetv pvr backend. There is no reason that we can't create an android app specifically for the google tv to have ALL of the current sagetv functionality including comskip, smm, tve, phoenix, ortus and everything else you can think of. Isn't what makes android awesome is the ability to have apps that can change functionality? So in theory we can recreate what we have now and everyone would be very happy with the results. It isn't what it is now, but it could be very very close or even better.

What do you guys think?

[ivseenbetter]

Originally Posted by jaminben

I've been trying out MediaPortal and I'm pretty impressed with it so far.... it has its flaws like most things though.

I'm thinking of jumping in on Mediaportal...care to share your thoughts on the flaws?

[valnar]

I must have missed something, but I didn't think Mediaportal was even close to SageTV in functionality?

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by ivseenbetter

I'm thinking of jumping in on Mediaportal...care to share your thoughts on the flaws?

I gave up on Mediaportal after one day of messing with it. The setup was too complicated IMO. I couldn't get it to work with my tuners.

I will go the WMC/Boxee route I guess if my Sage system bites the dust. I have basically given up on the "one box to rule them all theory" that Sage spoiled me with.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

... There is no reason that we can't create an android app specifically for the google tv to have ALL of the current sagetv functionality including comskip, smm, tve, phoenix, ortus and everything else you can think of. Isn't what makes android awesome is the ability to have apps that can change functionality? ... What do you guys think?

Well, this just sounds like optimizing a system for a specific platform (Android). I don't have an Android device, but more importantly I love (and use) Sage for its core functionality; I don't know what comskip, smm, tve, phoenix or ortus are. I have three Sage servers, three HD extenders and about five Client licenses. My systems are designed to capture and play back HD programming from DirecTV set-top boxes and OTA ATSC tuners.

I don't want to go back to the days of non-HD content, displayed on portable devices, and I certainly don't want anything less than 720p/1080i content displayed on a front projector or 37+-inch monitor ...

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I've been doing a lot of thinking and I have an idea. I know everyone isn't happy about the possibility of sage not existing in it's current form (I am one of those), and google purchasing sage just for the pvr backend. I honestly think this could be a good thing in the end.

Unfortunately I just don't think this is a realisitic outcome:

In theory we could have an android powered stb that has the current recording functionality we all know and love, but wouldn't work the same way as far as drm and recording storage.

Strike one, I think Sage's recording functionality is way too powerful (read complicated) for a mass market GoogleTV like product. I think things like multiple lineups, support for all kinds of tuners (HD PVR anyone), etc will have to be stripped out for such a product. I expect you'll get your standard ATSC/QAM tuner, probably 2 or maybe 4 of them, maybe CableCard, and that will be it. Those of us with Satellite will be sunk.

That part kind of sucks, but I'm not one to keep all of my recordings anyway so no big deal for me. I watch them and delete them. I can live with that. What I can't live without is being able to expand my recording drives. Hopefully they won't be stupid enough to limit that ability.

This seems reasonable, given we're seeing more and more STB DVRs with eSATA or USB drive support.

The other things I can't live without is the ability to watch all of my local media with all it's meta-data goodness in a nice ui to display the aforementioned goodness like I can with sage in it's current form. I know there are alternatives to sage that can do the same, but I like what I have.

This seems reasonably likely, although I would bet against DVD rip, and Blu-ray rip support, and definitely wouldn't count on things like HBR audio bitstreaming.

Having said all of that here is my idea (or hope). We have the above google tv/android powered stb with sagetv pvr backend. There is no reason that we can't create an android app specifically for the google tv to have ALL of the current sagetv functionality including comskip, smm, tve, phoenix, ortus and everything else you can think of.

Comskip I think will be impossible because DRM on the recordings will make them unprocessable.

What do you guys think?

I think there are a few too many rainbows and unicorns in that dream

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Unfortunately I just don't think this is a realisitic outcome:



Strike one, I think Sage's recording functionality is way too powerful (read complicated) for a mass market GoogleTV like product. I think things like multiple lineups, support for all kinds of tuners (HD PVR anyone), etc will have to be stripped out for such a product. I expect you'll get your standard ATSC/QAM tuner, probably 2 or maybe 4 of them, maybe CableCard, and that will be it. Those of us with Satellite will be sunk.



This seems reasonable, given we're seeing more and more STB DVRs with eSATA or USB drive support. One thing I did find out due to me getting DirecTV in the next week is that their whole home dvr (which I'm getting, but not using) can use expandable storage and you can also have multiple dvr's that can talk to each other. Plus all of your "extender" dtv boxes can read off of any dvr attached.



This seems reasonably likely, although I would bet against DVD rip, and Blu-ray rip support, and definitely wouldn't count on things like HBR audio bitstreaming.



Comskip I think will be impossible because DRM on the recordings will make them unprocessable.



I think there are a few too many rainbows and unicorns in that dream

Good points. It was my best case scenario, but I realize it is just that: a dream.

[TBacker]

Originally Posted by ivseenbetter

I'm thinking of jumping in on Mediaportal...care to share your thoughts on the flaws?

I've been on it for a while.

• Not as stable, but it doesn't crash regularly either.
  
• Use Beta 1.2 (should be RC or final soon). 1.1.x is full of star...uh...bugs.
  
• Use ForTheRecord / Argus as your back-end scheduler and tuner control. It's closer to Sage scheduling capabilities than the MP TVEngine is, but still not the same as Sage, unfortunately. It's also more stable than MP TVE.
  
• Yes, it's more complicated to set up (it has a separate config app). But read the wikis, read the forums, give yourself some time, and it will be fine.
  
• The more intense skins and plugins you add, the less stable it is. The skins have to support the plugins you want to use, so you end up with version mismatches all over the place. I ended up modifying the default wide skin to my taste and it's working well.
  
• The music section sucks, but it wasn't spectacular on Sage either.
  
• No client support. You'll need to use a PC client. MiniPC's with dual core, XP pro, and the right codecs work fine. Win7 even better.

Remember it's open source, community developed. Development will be slower, and releases will have more bugs.

If XBMC EVER gets it's PVR sh** together, it would be formidable. Unfortunately their design goals (over simplified so as to stay pretty and easy) and development speed (sub-snail pace) have ruled it out for me for a while. It works well other than PVR, but I also hear it's written in C++ and is full of spaghetti code (i.e. the underlying software coding is chaotic).

[stevewabc]

Well I already have started the movie to Media Portal witch has some strong points over SageTV.. but one strong thing SageTV is better at then MP is comskip on liveTV.. other then that Media Portal has come a long ways... and does suport more option then SageTV... I'm boycotting google TV this was a let down for the hole community...

Here is a link if one wishes to check MP:
http://lyfesaver.hopto.org/mp/index....b/69-pr-videos


quick simple Install for usa people WComskip working can be found at Httpffice.homefrontus.com/mediaportal

Other wise MP @ http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

This is not ment to start a flame war but is the only a alternative.. For me MS MC is not a option due to your only able to use or record 1 show at a time.

* merged *

[stevewabc]

This is not about starting a flame war.. but it is about looking at replacement MC... being plug-ins are being killed off one at a time...

What are are option here?
well we have Microsoft Media Center,Myth TV, XBMC, Media Portal and SageTV...
Lets take a min and talk a Minute and point out a couple things about them....

Microsoft Media Center: well the big one for me is TV you can only record 1 show at a time no mater how many tuners one has... Comskip vary limited at best 80% of the time not working. I just don't like MSMC

Myth TV: TV works well Comskip works well... but limited to other things like no Netflex pugins... and a real pain to get up and running.


XBMC: at this time it does not support TV but yes you can get it working with a lot of fing around and I don't have that kind of time... Movies, Music are handled vary well.

Media Portal 1.2: Well this is a kick off of XBMC and at this time only supports windows PC'S. Over all is vary rounded with a ton of options Live TV (comskip Not work with LIveTV at this time but is in the works)Record multiple shows at a time and replying with comskip working well. TVSeries, Moving Pictures, On Line Videos, Netflex, Pandora, Hulu with multishortcut plugin: and many more plug-ins... This thing is handling anything I throw at it.

Here is a video on it: http://lyfesaver.hopto.org/mp/index....b/69-pr-videos

USA Install Guide: http://www.office.homefrontus.com/mediaportal

Home page: http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

Hope this helps others here with there frustration

* merged *

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by stevewabc

Microsoft Media Center: well the big one for me is TV you can only record 1 show at a time no mater how many tuners one has...

I believe this is incorrect. MCE can record multiple shows at the same time.

[ThePaladinTech]

Originally Posted by stevewabc

This is not about starting a flame war.. but it is about looking at replacement MC... being plug-ins are being killed off one at a time...

What are are option here?
well we have Microsoft Media Center,Myth TV, XBMC, Media Portal and SageTV...
Lets take a min and talk a Minute and point out a couple things about them....

Microsoft Media Center: well the big one for me is TV you can only record 1 show at a time no mater how many tuners one has... Comskip vary limited at best 80% of the time not working. I just don't like MSMC

Myth TV: TV works well Comskip works well... but limited to other things like no Netflex pugins... and a real pain to get up and running.


XBMC: at this time it does not support TV but yes you can get it working with a lot of fing around and I don't have that kind of time... Movies, Music are handled vary well.

Media Portal 1.2: Well this is a kick off of XBMC and at this time only supports windows PC'S. Over all is vary rounded with a ton of options Live TV (comskip Not work with LIveTV at this time but is in the works)Record multiple shows at a time and replying with comskip working well. TVSeries, Moving Pictures, On Line Videos, Netflex, Pandora, Hulu with multishortcut plugin: and many more plug-ins... This thing is handling anything I throw at it.

Here is a video on it: http://lyfesaver.hopto.org/mp/index....b/69-pr-videos

USA Install Guide: http://www.office.homefrontus.com/mediaportal

Home page: http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

Hope this helps others here with there frustration

* merged *

And you're missing another strong contender NextPVR.

[stevewabc]

ThePaladinTech, thanks ..... will test it out this afternoon on my test box...

[jarredduq]

Fixed link. Need to remove the www

USA Install Guide: http://office.homefrontus.com/mediaportal

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by stevewabc

Microsoft Media Center: well the big one for me is TV you can only record 1 show at a time no mater how many tuners one has... Comskip vary limited at best 80% of the time not working. I just don't like MSMC

Yeah, definitely not true. You might be referring to the two at a time, per technology, IE.. Analog and or Digital, but it's never been limited to one at a time. At least since MCE 2005, and maybe even before. Also there was a hack to allow 4 tuners, by editing the registry back in the day. The 2 tuner limit has since been lifted I believe.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

Yeah, definitely not true. You might be referring to the two at a time, per technology, IE.. Analog and or Digital, but it's never been limited to one at a time. At least since MCE 2005, and maybe even before. Also there was a hack to allow 4 tuners, by editing the registry back in the day. The 2 tuner limit has since been lifted I believe.

The tuner limit is now 4. With TunerSalad you can have up to "eight (8) tuners of each tuner type (i.e. ATSC, NTSC, ClearQAM, DVB, Digital Cable, Digital Cable with CableCARD, etc.)."

[stevewabc]

Well I i apologize for the miss information on WMC the problem must be on my end...

jarredduq thanks for fixing that....

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by jchiso

Well, this just sounds like optimizing a system for a specific platform (Android). I don't have an Android device, but more importantly I love (and use) Sage for its core functionality; I don't know what comskip, smm, tve, phoenix or ortus are. I have three Sage servers, three HD extenders and about five Client licenses. My systems are designed to capture and play back HD programming from DirecTV set-top boxes and OTA ATSC tuners.

I don't want to go back to the days of non-HD content, displayed on portable devices, and I certainly don't want anything less than 720p/1080i content displayed on a front projector or 37+-inch monitor ...

Why 3 sagetv servers?

[davephan]

Originally Posted by stevewabc

This is not about starting a flame war.. but it is about looking at replacement MC... being plug-ins are being killed off one at a time...

What are are option here?
well we have Microsoft Media Center,Myth TV, XBMC, Media Portal and SageTV...
Lets take a min and talk a Minute and point out a couple things about them....

Microsoft Media Center: well the big one for me is TV you can only record 1 show at a time no mater how many tuners one has... Comskip vary limited at best 80% of the time not working. I just don't like MSMC

Myth TV: TV works well Comskip works well... but limited to other things like no Netflex pugins... and a real pain to get up and running.


XBMC: at this time it does not support TV but yes you can get it working with a lot of fing around and I don't have that kind of time... Movies, Music are handled vary well.

Media Portal 1.2: Well this is a kick off of XBMC and at this time only supports windows PC'S. Over all is vary rounded with a ton of options Live TV (comskip Not work with LIveTV at this time but is in the works)Record multiple shows at a time and replying with comskip working well. TVSeries, Moving Pictures, On Line Videos, Netflex, Pandora, Hulu with multishortcut plugin: and many more plug-ins... This thing is handling anything I throw at it.

Here is a video on it: http://lyfesaver.hopto.org/mp/index....b/69-pr-videos

USA Install Guide: http://www.office.homefrontus.com/mediaportal

Home page: http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

Hope this helps others here with there frustration

* merged *

Thanks for the links. I think I will try Media Portal. I did notice one obvious bug when a screen displays with the number of videos in a category at the upper left part of the screen. When it is a 3 digit number such as 123, then it displays "123 items". When it is a 4 digit number such as 1234, then it displays "1234 item". Not enough space allocated for the "s" when it is over a 3 digit number. Maybe if the item count is a five digit number, such as 12345, it would display "12345 ite".

Most of the videos I've seen so far are video display "eye candy". What is really important is the stability and functionality. When using the software, it needs to be as free as possible of any undesirable video defects, such as stuttering or distorted video or audio. Compatibility with a number of tuner cards or devices is very important. The ability to intelligently record programs is important. Manually scheduling each and every program would be a real pain. If configuring all the "eye candy" screen requires 40 hours a week of configuration time, then there wouldn't be enough free time left to actually use Media Portal.

I've tried MythTV, but haven't spent enough time to try to get it working properly. The learning curve is very steep with MythTV, and MythTV does not look close enough to SageTV to be an acceptable replacement while SageTV continues to function. However, I think I will be testing Media Portal soon on my test computer.

Dave