Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[davephan]

Originally Posted by mistergq

I have to say that made STV so much easier that the 10 ft UI became a reality. At first, I did not think I needed that, but I touch my server so rarely, I think it is something to reconsider.

For many users with headless servers they are located in the basement or closets and are not setup for as comfortable access. The servers are usually accessed with remote control, but direct access with the GUI is much easier. I doubt if many people actually have a 10 foot screen. My largest screen is 72 inches and the GUI look fine on it to adjust the settings with the remote control. The only time when direct access to the computer is needed would be to type in a lot of characters, patching the system, or some other system changes. After the users are used to having system settings in the GUI, when the system settings are not in the GUI then it is cumbersome having to make the changes on the server directly.


Dave

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by davephan

... I doubt if many people actually have a 10 foot screen. ...
Dave

Dave, the 10 foot UI means how far you are from it normally, not size of screen.

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

Dave, the 10 foot UI means how far you are from it normally, not size of screen.

But other points are valid in my case. I don't usually log into the server in the (unfinished) basement and even then it's usually through a remote desktop connection--the server "just works".

(BTW, the server is now switched from WHSv1 to Windows 7 Professional--for the RDC capabilities--and Acronis for backups across the house. Dave, be sure to collect your cut of the Acronis sales on the upgrades ).

I wasn't planning on looking at SageTV alternatives anytime soon, but am having problems with the living room HD300 right now. I usually stick to "release" versions, but with the current news, I took some time this weekend to flash to the latest "beta" firmware and upgrade to the "RC" 7.1 series on the server, (clean install). Now the HD300 is crashing on a regular basis...should have just stuck with what I had.

[joe123]

Originally Posted by SundanceTV

I have this bad feeling they are buying STV to bury it. It is competition for their GoogleTV product I think.

That is what I hear from the folks in the know how.

But let's be realistic here. Narflex will do whatever it takes for him to make as much money as possible and will do whatever Google tells him to.

[emveepee]

Is the wiz.bin file the SageTV database? If so I really would like a few of you to PM me with your email address and I will contact you to to get a copy and look at it. I'd like to be able and get something to extract viewing history for NextPVR.

I can't write something that uses the SageTV API because I cannot become a licensed user so I'd like to see what is a available to me via a hack of wiz.bin

Martin

[Fuzzy]

Sounds like you'll just need the assistance of someone with a sage license. The wiz.bin is a pretty proprietary file, everything goes in and out through the API. That said, the API is pretty well documented. With some 3rd party plugins, the API can be exposed via HTTP as well.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Sounds like you'll just need the assistance of someone with a sage license. The wiz.bin is a pretty proprietary file, everything goes in and out through the API. That said, the API is pretty well documented. With some 3rd party plugins, the API can be exposed via HTTP as well.

Ok, but I still wouldn't mind doing it under my control. It may be proprietary but at least it is fixed now and I'd still like to "read" it.

Martin

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by joe123

That is what I hear from the folks in the know how.

What sort of "in the know"? I'm genuinely curious because I just don't buy it. Microsoft maybe, since SageTV slaughters Windows Media Center in DVR/extender/client, all around system functionality.

But I don't see how anyone could think SageTV, a PC DVR with an incredibly small userbase, which doesn't have very good streaming service support, or CableCard could been seen as a threat to GoogleTV, a streaming-centric content aggregator.

I just don't buy it, Sage has shown no signs of mass-market appeal, nor any plans to be a serious player in the streaming video market.

The only thing that really makes sense is that Google wanted SageTV's DVR functionality to flesh out GoogleTV into something they could take on Tivo with, or maybe sell/license to cable/satellite providers to use in their DVRs.

That and if they did just buy Sage to kill it, I doubt Jeff would be a Google employee, and I seriously doubt he'd be be so publicly happy about it.

But let's be realistic here. Narflex will do whatever it takes for him to make as much money as possible and will do whatever Google tells him to.

Don't get me wrong I definitely don't expect any rainbows and unicorns, SageTV 8 with integrated GoogleTV-like streaming services. I don't think the result of this acquisition is going to look like SageTV. I expect we'll see some new Google "product" (likely GoogleTV) with new DVR features. But even there I'm not optimistic it will seem very familiar to us.

Originally Posted by emveepee

I can't write something that uses the SageTV API because I cannot become a licensed user so I'd like to see what is a available to me via a hack of wiz.bin

The API documentation is here:
http://download.sagetv.com/api/

And you can use a couple of the API wrapper plugins to access the SageTV API without Studio. I think that would be much more efficient than attempting to parse the binary wiz.bin.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The API documentation is here:
http://download.sagetv.com/api/

And you can use a couple of the API wrapper plugins to access the SageTV API without Studio. I think that would be much more efficient than attempting to parse the binary wiz.bin.

That assumes as a new user I could install a permanent licensed copy of SageTV which I can't do.

Martin

[KarylFStein]

Crap, I don’t know what’s going on. I thought that I’d upgrade my HD300 to the latest “beta” firmware and my SageTV server to the 7.1 RC this weekend since I’m guessing from now on, that will be the base default for people sticking with SageTV. I usually stay with the “official release” versions and don’t generally mess with the BETAs, but times have changed…

When I did this, I also upgraded to the latest versions of the plug-ins I use, (some of which wouldn’t load before because they required 7.1). I’m using the web server, SlimPlayer, SJQ, comskip playback, and SRE, plus whatever dependencies they have. As far as I can tell, Slugger’s stuff and their dependencies are an update from what I had before while the rest are at the same level.

Pretty basic stuff in my view except maybe SlimPlayer, (great plugin BTW), but things are totally unstable now and I don’t know what happened.

The other thing I changed is “force HDMI”, on the extender, (a new option as far as I can remember), as when I re-installed everything I could only get a reliable signal though composite, (and mostly reliable though component, but not always), until I turned this flag on. Granted, my TV--monitor really--is pretty old, (it doesn’t have HDMI inputs as that wasn’t really around then, but does HDCP over DVI so I use an HDMI to DVI cable), but I didn’t have these problems before. Debugging why I wasn’t getting “no signal” or a garbled mess via HDMI was a major pain, but with the “force HDMI” flag enabled things on the video front seem resolved. I’ll blame the “outdated” monitor there, (the AVR is “outdated” too, but at least it has HDMI I/O and I bypassed that anyway for testing to make sure it wasn’t causing problems—turns out HDMI only works through the AVR even though as far as I can tell it’s in “passthough” mode, which makes no sense to me, but the AVR and monitor are long-time constants).

I’ve just been using SlimPlayer mostly today and yesterday. This is usually solid and can play for hours, (and no updates from the last install), but after the changes, it seems as if the HD300 keeps crashing; the audio does a weird jumble, the video (random slideshow at that point) stays of for a little after, but then it dies too and the TV/monitor goes into sleep state. And the HD300 has the blue power light on, but doesn’t change to red even if I press the power button on the official remote or even flicker on any button press, (which is why I call it “crash”). I have to unplug then plug in the physical power cable on the HD300 to get it back operational, (no touching the AVR or monitor to get it operational again). I tested some recorded TV, (1080i OTA and captured SD), and it worked fine, but I didn’t stress it as long as SlimPlayer.

Any ideas? This is really concerning me. Up until the “upgrade” things were fine. I should probably downgrade, but not sure how to do that now with the firmware and I now I want to be on the version of stuff that will be (hopefully) supported moving forward.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by emveepee

That assumes as a new user I could install a permanent licensed copy of SageTV which I can't do.

Martin

Martin,

You don't need a licensed copy to use the API. If you download and install the trial the wiz.bin that it creates is the same as a licensed version. You can then write some Java code (using the published API) to extract the info from the wiz.bin and save it in whatever format you like. None of this is "nefarious" since it's all out in the public.

The web plugin also has the option to save various pieces of data as xml.

Tom

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Martin,

You don't need a licensed copy to use the API. If you download and install the trial the wiz.bin that it creates is the same as a licensed version. You can then write some Java code (using the published API) to extract the info from the wiz.bin and save it in whatever format you like. None of this is "nefarious" since it's all out in the public.

The web plugin also has the option to save various pieces of data as xml.

Yes, okay but it means I have to learn way too many things (SageTV, schedule recordings, etc) just to get a simple wiz.bin which I all i want to want right now. It's much easier to figure things out if I look at a good database.

If I can't hack it I will need to use the trial, but I also don't want to waste a trial just yet. I think there will be a time when some SageTV users will convert and I want to have the option then.

BTW you asked sub about plugins. What kind of state is your Navi-X plugin? If it is useable I looked at the code on google (and you do a great job of documenting your code) it looks like I could port it to an NextPVR plugin pretty easily.

Martin

[davephan]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

(BTW, the server is now switched from WHSv1 to Windows 7 Professional--for the RDC capabilities--and Acronis for backups across the house. Dave, be sure to collect your cut of the Acronis sales on the upgrades ).

That's a good move, replacing WHS to Windows 7. You can now recover the system with an image. Unfortunately, I don't get any commissions from Acronis or Ghost sales. I come across so many people with computer problems. When asked if they have a backup, they say "what's that?". The image is even more important when SageTV will become stagnated. There might be a Windows or Java patch in the future that breaks SageTV, requiring you to recover it back. That will save a lot of time and hassle trying to rebuild the system from scratch. You might also image your system with Clonezilla. It is a free imaging software package. Just in case you can't recover with the Acronis image, you can try recovering with Clonezilla. You might also try replacing your boot drive with a "test" drive and try recovering with the image. You will then know if you can recover. If the recovery fails, then you still have your original drive. You can clone drives with Acronis too, which could be another way to backup the system.

I use Enterprise RealVNC for remote control for the Windows 7 64-bit SageTV computer (the free RealVNC does not work with Win7 x64). It's not cheap, $50 a license and you buy if from RealVNC in the UK.


Dave

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by emveepee

BTW you asked sub about plugins. What kind of state is your Navi-X plugin? If it is useable I looked at the code on google (and you do a great job of documenting your code) it looks like I could port it to an NextPVR plugin pretty easily.

Martin

It's coming along but still has a way to go. Testing is slow because every time I find something that won't play I have to fire up XBMC to see if it plays there or not. Unfortunately there are a lot of links to video that just don't work or won't stream because the video server is too slow.

Tom

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The only thing that really makes sense is that Google wanted SageTV's DVR functionality to flesh out GoogleTV into something they could take on Tivo with, or maybe sell/license to cable/satellite providers to use in their DVRs.

That's what I'm thinking/hoping too. Nothing else makes any sense at all. GoogleTV running on Android as a front end, with a server/DVR back end add-on.

[emveepee]

Thanks to a couple of forum members I have got some sample wiz.bin files to work with. As you expected Sage really didn't want this file modified and the best approach is an API. If I install SageTV 7 in a VM can I just replace the wiz.bin that is created with one of the samples to access it via the API?

Martin

[stanger89]

Should be able to.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by davephan

I use Enterprise RealVNC for remote control for the Windows 7 64-bit SageTV computer (the free RealVNC does not work with Win7 x64).

Free UltraVNC works fine.

[graywolf]

Originally Posted by emveepee

Thanks to a couple of forum members I have got some sample wiz.bin files to work with. As you expected Sage really didn't want this file modified and the best approach is an API. If I install SageTV 7 in a VM can I just replace the wiz.bin that is created with one of the samples to access it via the API?

Martin

Hopefully you know what "version" the wiz.bin were created (most likely want from v7.1.7 thru 7.1.9 since they were compatible).

But otherwise yes...just do it while Sage (and/or SageService) is down.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by emveepee

If I install SageTV 7 in a VM can I just replace the wiz.bin that is created with one of the samples to access it via the API?

Martin

Yes, and no.

If by chance your PC happens to have a directory that is the same as the original wiz.bin owner's recording directory, Sage will notice that the directory is empty and delete all recording entries from the wiz.bin that used to be in that directory. Ditto on imported videos, photos, and music.

Favorites, Recording history, Watched, Don't like should all be uneffected.