Just in case- Alternatives to SageTV

[panteragstk]

I've been looking around at alternatives since this whole thing started. I think I may have found my alternative today. I hate to say it, but I think WMC will be what I switch to.

My reasoning:

It has My Movies integration that I have to have, plus with tv support and media browser I'd be able to do everything I do in sage for all my local media.

It may not have extenders, but I think the software from dvblogic solves that problem. It basically makes your tuners (it doesn't matter what they are for the most part) into network tuners. Basically my server would still contain the tuners, but all my "clients" would have access to those tuners at any moment. I'm not sure how it would handle tuners that are in use, so that would have to be figured out. You install the client software on all wmc clients and they can access the tuners. Simple. Plus you can share all tv recordings so you would just record to a network share (what we do now essentially) and you can watch all recordings on any client (drm free recordings of course). That solves the tv aspect.

Integration with netflix is already there. Playon is also supported. Hulu desktop (that I already use) is supported. The home automation software I plan to use is supported.

Has more of a user base than anything else. I'd hope the support and development would continue for years to come no matter what rumors say. With as much time and effort that has been poured into cablecard I doubt that wmc 8 would lack tuner support or media center support. It could happen, but would be highly unlikely.

Well, that is my take on the current state of things. I won't get the customization I have now, but I'd still be able to do everything I do now. So for me...full steam ahead on my current plans of a whole house install.

Now I have to go sign up for directv and u-verse internet. It'll be nice having a home internet connection again and espn. I'm excited (not about the money I'll be spending this summer though).

[sub]

Originally Posted by ThePaladinTech

What is the status / road map for supporting the ceton tuner card? Like sageTV does, understood it is unlikely that you would be supporting copy protection.

I have no plans around this. I'm not in the US so cant test CableCard stuff myself.

That said, NPVR supports tuner plugins, so hopefully something will eventuate. Whurlston from our forums is looking into doing a plugin along the same lines as SageDCT. Or you might be able to ask babgvant to port his SageDCT plugin.

Also, the HDHR Prime may have the ability make Copy Freely channels look like regular ATSC channels, so this device might do these Copy Freely channels out of the box without any changes to NPVR.

I have a HAVA network tuner ( a rarity I think) - but SageTV and media portal support it, nextPVR does not seem to. Is it possible to support the Hava as a tuner in NextPVR?

I never heard of a HAVA tuner, so dont really know anything about it. If its got BDA or WDM drivers then it'd probably already work. If not, then some other developer could always write a tuner plugin for it. If its some niche proprietary device, then its unlikely I'd create that plugin myself.

Last a simple question - Does NextPVR support both extenders and client PCs with a full UI?

Yes.

[harco]

Will NextPVR work with the genpix tuners for HD video? (turbo-8psk)

[sub]

Originally Posted by harco

Will NextPVR work with the genpix tuners for HD video? (turbo-8psk)

I dont know. I know for a long time this device didnt have BDA drivers, but I understandard it now has. If they've done this in a fairly standard way, then it should work.

NPVR also built in Multidec plugin support, which might be a bonus for any one trying to do Dish stuff.

[valnar]

Sub,
If it is true that PCH no longer sells the A100 series then anyone switching over could have the same procurement problem we have with the Sage extenders, right?

I believe I read on your forum that you worked directly with PCH to build the functionality into the A100 series. Are you having a cooperation roadblock with the A200 series?

[sub]

Originally Posted by valnar

Sub,
If it is true that PCH no longer sells the A100 series then anyone switching over could have the same procurement problem we have with the Sage extenders, right?

As well as the A100/A110/etc can also use the EGreat M34a and a couple of other devices based on the same design. You can still buy some of them new, so it's not quite the same as the Sage extender problem, but these are the previous generation devices and I'm sure stocks will start running outm, so we're looking into newer devices.

I believe I read on your forum that you worked directly with PCH to build the functionality into the A100 series. Are you having a cooperation roadblock with the A200 series?

They have supplied us with A200 samples and info, but no gaurantees we'll release a client for this device (there is some stumbling block that may or may not be resolve). We prefer not to give any indication of future devices until we no for sure - I wouldnt want people to go an buy these devices then be pissed at us if no client eventuated.

[Jackal24]

Do any of these alternatives support a wiz.bin style format? For example, my wife hates that all the cable provided DVRs that we have tried will record shows that we have already seen, where sage remembers every show we have ever watched, so that it will record reruns if we haven't watched them.

[davephan]

I started testing NPVR. The GUI is pretty poor compared to SageTV. There's a menu that brings up sub menus at the bottom of the screen unlike the SageTV menu system which functions in a similar way to the Windows menu system.

I haven't finished configuring a HDHomerun yet, so I haven't tested it much yet. The GUI is a big let down from SageTV.

I will continue testing NPVR more...


Dave

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I've been looking around at alternatives since this whole thing started. I think I may have found my alternative today. I hate to say it, but I think WMC will be what I switch to.

My reasoning:

It has My Movies integration that I have to have, plus with tv support and media browser I'd be able to do everything I do in sage for all my local media.

It may not have extenders, but I think the software from dvblogic solves that problem. It basically makes your tuners (it doesn't matter what they are for the most part) into network tuners. Basically my server would still contain the tuners, but all my "clients" would have access to those tuners at any moment. I'm not sure how it would handle tuners that are in use, so that would have to be figured out. You install the client software on all wmc clients and they can access the tuners. Simple. Plus you can share all tv recordings so you would just record to a network share (what we do now essentially) and you can watch all recordings on any client (drm free recordings of course). That solves the tv aspect.

Integration with netflix is already there. Playon is also supported. Hulu desktop (that I already use) is supported. The home automation software I plan to use is supported.

Has more of a user base than anything else. I'd hope the support and development would continue for years to come no matter what rumors say. With as much time and effort that has been poured into cablecard I doubt that wmc 8 would lack tuner support or media center support. It could happen, but would be highly unlikely.

Well, that is my take on the current state of things. I won't get the customization I have now, but I'd still be able to do everything I do now. So for me...full steam ahead on my current plans of a whole house install.

Now I have to go sign up for directv and u-verse internet. It'll be nice having a home internet connection again and espn. I'm excited (not about the money I'll be spending this summer though).

So what in your decisions made WMC better than SageTV?

[sub]

Originally Posted by davephan

I started testing NPVR. The GUI is pretty poor compared to SageTV. There's a menu that brings up sub menus at the bottom of the screen unlike the SageTV menu system which functions in a similar way to the Windows menu system.

It is what it is. The goals for NPVR are not exactly the same as SageTV, so yeah there are going to be differences. Are you talking about the Setting screen? Yes, the Settings screen is a Windows dialog. Personally I dont see the need have 10ft UI for the setting screen, since people rarely fiddle around in their after initial setup. It would have been hugely time consuming to make 10ft UI screens for everything. NPVR is written by one guy in his spare time, so I had to use my available time wisely.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by davephan

The GUI is a big let down from SageTV.

How does it compare to the old Sage 6.0 and earlier menus?

I liked the older Sage menu system anyway as I prefer function over flash. The new menu, while prettier, takes longer to "get to things" because more clicks are involved. 'Kinda like XP vs Win7.

So if nPVR is more archaic, but faster, I'd be happy.

[davephan]

NPVR has a very basic menu, which does not include setup as was mentioned. Setup is nice for making changes without having to go to the computer running the application. I've made many changes from the TV screen, it is a very useful addition.

When you select an item on the menu, then you select a sub item on the separate scroll bar at the bottom of the screen. This is very unlike most menu systems in Windows where you select an item in the main menu. The main menu then opens up to a sub menu, then the sub menu opens up. In SageTV, there is basically one menu where you drill down into the area you want. NPVR is not one unified menu. This was unusual to me since all the other menu systems I've seen with Windows applications generally follow the main menu and sub menus where the user can drill down into the item.

I did download and install the newest version, 2.1.4 dated July 3, 2011. In the download page on the NPVR forum there were posting messages about the new release. I was a bit surprised that there were only about 12 - 15 posts. Maybe there were more posts in another area. When SageTV makes a release, there are usually a high number of posts. My impression is that the install base for NPVR might not be very large. I don't know if that is true or not, but it was the impression I received in my brief visits to the forum. I also noticed that the people posting had relatively few posts although "sub" had a very high number of posts.

I'll check out NPVR more on my spare computer. It's possible I could find it a possible replacement, but it doesn't look like it at this early stage of the review process.


Dave

[sub]

Originally Posted by davephan

When you select an item on the menu, then you select a sub item on the separate scroll bar at the bottom of the screen. This is very unlike most menu systems in Windows where you select an item in the main menu. The main menu then opens up to a sub menu, then the sub menu opens up. In SageTV, there is basically one menu where you drill down into the area you want. NPVR is not one unified menu. This was unusual to me since all the other menu systems I've seen with Windows applications generally follow the main menu and sub menus where the user can drill down into the item.

I dont think there is anything different about NextPVR's menu. Its a single level menu with all the important options listed, like 'TV Guide', 'Recordings', 'Music' etc list. You select one of those and it takes you to the appropriate screen. ie, click TV Guide and it'll take you to the TV Guide.

The skins can display either a horizontal version of the menu or a vertical version. The default skin uses horizontal. Maybe you're not used to seeing the menu displayed as a horizontal list of items and its confusing you. Its still just a list of items, you scroll through, and you select which one you want to use.

I have no idea what you mean when you say "When you select an item on the menu, then you select a sub item on the separate scroll bar at the bottom of the screen.". This makes it sounds like you have to select to two things to get anywhere. Thats not the case. There is only one level of menu item.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by sub

I have no idea what you mean when you say "When you select an item on the menu, then you select a sub item on the separate scroll bar at the bottom of the screen.". This makes it sounds like you have to select to two things to get anywhere. Thats not the case. There is only one level of menu item.

I was confused at first, until I realized he must be talking about navigating the various recording menus.

Martin

[davephan]

I will have to try changing the menu to a vertical style NPVR menu. Maybe that is the problem. I am used to menus having a tree format.

For example in SageTV: "TV" is selected and right arrow, then the following items display: Recordings, Watch Live TV, Program Guide, Recording Schedule, Schedule Recordings, TV Show Editorials. I select "Schedule Recordings", and right arrow. Then the following items are displayed: Manage Favorites, Create Timed Recording, Browse by Category, Resolve Conflicts, Favorite Excluder. Then one of those items can be selected.

The item is selected on the first level by arrowing up and down. Then a right arrow drills down to the next layer. Up and down arrow on the second layer and right arrow again to drill down to the third layer, etc.

I wasn't seeing that type of menu navigation, but maybe the GUI can be configured to behave the same way.


Dave

[sub]

Originally Posted by davephan

I will have to try changing the menu to a vertical style NPVR menu. Maybe that is the problem. I am used to menus having a tree format.

For example in SageTV: "TV" is selected and right arrow, then the following items display: Recordings, Watch Live TV, Program Guide, Recording Schedule, Schedule Recordings, TV Show Editorials. I select "Schedule Recordings", and right arrow. Then the following items are displayed: Manage Favorites, Create Timed Recording, Browse by Category, Resolve Conflicts, Favorite Excluder. Then one of those items can be selected.

The item is selected on the first level by arrowing up and down. Then a right arrow drills down to the next layer. Up and down arrow on the second layer and right arrow again to drill down to the third layer, etc.

I think you're just used to seeing the same functionality as NPVR's Recordings screen as separate screens and its confusing you. Its one of those areas that just works differently to SageTV.

In NPVR the Recordings screen is where you go to see the lists of WhatsNew/Ready/Pending/Recurring/Conflict recordings. By default (but configurable) when you first go into the Recordings screen it shows you the 'Whats New' list of recent recordings, but you can press the left/right buttons to switch between lists. In the past we used to have buttons down the left of the screen with 'pending', 'ready' etc to switch between these lists, but this was a huge waste of space (particularly on 4x3 screens), so we did away with them.

You dont typically schedule new recordings from the Recordings screen. You'd typically do that from the TV Guide. You can schedule manual recordings from the Recordings screen though if you want recordings that dont relate to listings in the TV Guide.

[tmiranda]

sub - Can you point me at the place to look to see how plugins are written and deployed?

[jerryt]

I have gotten NPVR to work with my HDHR and DVBlink (Dishnet VIP-211 - HDPVR) tuners, so far it has promise.

Here is some software which I also was able to get to work on the HDHR and DVBlink tuners, but have not heard anyone suggest it as a Sage replacement.
DVBviewer 4.8.1

Niether are simple to set up, but it maybe just a learning curve for me.

So I have WMC, Sage, NPVR and DVBviewer all working as front ends to 6 HDHR tuners and DVBlink controlling two dishnet receivers with HDPVR's.

[sub]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

sub - Can you point me at the place to look to see how plugins are written and deployed?

Plugins are written using .NET. Most people use C#, but you can also use C++ or VB.NET (and probably some other .NET languages too).

You can find some basic examples plugins in: http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.p...re-do-we-start. There quite a few post in the developer forum that would be useful http://forums.gbpvr.com/forumdisplay.php?9-Developers. If you dont find what you're looking for, or dont know where to start, just post a question and I'll help you out.

I havnt post an example for tuner plugins, which were just added recently, but I do have an example if this is something you need.

Deployment is pretty manual. Just place the plugin dll in the plugins directory and it's picked up when the app is next run. You can then go in the Settings -> Plugins screen and tick the checkbox to enable it. Most developers use a simple executable installer.

I did look into providing a screen for previewing available plugins, and automatically downloading and installing them, but the plugin developers weren't that keen, so that idea was shelved.

[mistergq]

Originally Posted by sub

I did look into providing a screen for previewing available plugins, and automatically downloading and installing them, but the plugin developers weren't that keen, so that idea was shelved.

I have to say that made STV so much easier that the 10 ft UI became a reality. At first, I did not think I needed that, but I touch my server so rarely, I think it is something to reconsider.