Windows 7 HD Codec Playback

[frizat]

I'm currently running a Windows 7 Media Center and am really interested in moving over to SageTV 7. I have tried Sage in the past and had issues with getting comparable image quality to Media Center.

Right now I'm using an NVIDIA GeForce 9300 (on board) video card, 4 GB ram and getting between 5-8% CPU usage while watching full screen HD in Media Center.

Right now I have EVR as my video render in SageTV and am using Microsoft DTD-DVD as the codec for MPEG2 and H.264 and I consistently hit 20-35% CPU usage.

Am I setting this up incorrectly? Is there anything I can do to easily setup SageTV to match my current Windows 7 playback?

[jerryt]

You are not getting hardware accelerance in Sage for some reason.

Is UAC enabled? If so disable and then upgrade the Nvidia drivers and try again.

I have had this problem with a ATI card and UAC enabled.

[frizat]

UAC is enabled, but I installed SageTV into C:\SageTV so that should have taken care of the UAC problem right? I can try disabling UAC tonight, should I reinstall SageTV 7 after I disabled UAC?

I'm using Windows 7 and they haven't posted new NVIDIA drivers on Windows Update in almost 5 months. I worry about downloading the drivers directly from NVIDIA and having compatibility issues.

Also is there anyway to test if Hardware Acceleration is working or not besides fiddling w/ UAC?

[Rico66]

I don't see how this has anything to do with the drivers, if you get DXVA within Media Center with the same driver. And UAC typically does not cause problems with Nvidia drivers under Win7.
When you say you see CPU usage of 20 - 30%, which processes show this usage? Also, can you find out whether the desired video decoder is really used? A fairly easy way to see which filters are utilized in the UI, is by using the ffdshow audio decoder (instead of ac3filter), since the icon in the Windows notification area displays such information.

[frizat]

Thanks for the replies, I will check out which process is eating up all of the CPU cycles. Also, I do not have FFDShow installed, so I can install that to get an idea of what the actual filters being applied are.

Thanks to both for the quick replies. Hopefully I can get this sucker up and running finally!

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by frizat

UAC is enabled, but I installed SageTV into C:\SageTV so that should have taken care of the UAC problem right? I can try disabling UAC tonight, should I reinstall SageTV 7 after I disabled UAC?

I'm using Windows 7 and they haven't posted new NVIDIA drivers on Windows Update in almost 5 months. I worry about downloading the drivers directly from NVIDIA and having compatibility issues.

Also is there anyway to test if Hardware Acceleration is working or not besides fiddling w/ UAC?

Generally you can tell by the CPU usage, but Rico66 has a good idea to verify that Sage is using the Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder. If Sage is using a different decoder then the CPU usage is higher for that decoder, but if Sage is using Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder and the CPU is 27% higher, then HA is broken. The UAC problem can be ruled out by reinstalling the same version of Nvidia drivers, but with UAC turned off.

If none of the above work, then I would try Sage installed in the normal directory.

[frizat]

I tried to use FFDshow to find out which Decoder my SageTV is using but I may not have done so correctly.

Here is what my FFDShow Icon Shows, I see Enhanced Video Renderer on the list but i'm not sure if that's that it is infact being used.

I simply set my Audio output to be FFDShow like suggested. With FFDshow used for Audio and the Windows decoders selected for MPEG2/H.264 I get alot of tearing and about 20% CPU Usage.

Thanks!

Mark

[rrhorer]

Originally Posted by jerryt

If none of the above work, then I would try Sage installed in the normal directory.

I had problems getting firewire channel-changing to work when I installed Sage on C:\SageTV. After re-installing Sage in the normal directory and disabling UAC, all is fine. These things are probably unrelated; but, then again, maybe not.

[doncote0]

Have you seen donkey's post on using the included decoders correctly?

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...rosoft+decoder

[frizat]

I was under the impression that the Native Recording Patch was only for Sage 6? When I installed Sage 7 I was able to see all the Microsoft Decoders.

Last night I also tried Arcsoft TMT5's decoder to no avail, same results as using Microsoft and SageTV's MPEG/H.264 decoders. The only time I see any difference in my picture is when I change from EVR to D9 or Overlay.

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by frizat

I tried to use FFDshow to find out which Decoder my SageTV is using but I may not have done so correctly.

Here is what my FFDShow Icon Shows, I see Enhanced Video Renderer on the list but i'm not sure if that's that it is infact being used.

I simply set my Audio output to be FFDShow like suggested. With FFDshow used for Audio and the Windows decoders selected for MPEG2/H.264 I get alot of tearing and about 20% CPU Usage.

Thanks!

Mark

What is the CPU usage of the same recording in WMP ?

Try reinstalling the video card drivers with UAC off...

Try reinstalling Sage in the normal directory...

I don't know why Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder is grayed out in your screen shot ? I would think that is displaying a problem...

[frizat]

Originally Posted by jerryt

What is the CPU usage of the same recording in WMP ?

Try reinstalling the video card drivers with UAC off...

Try reinstalling Sage in the normal directory...

I don't know why Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder is grayed out in your screen shot ? I would think that is displaying a problem...

I have UAC off and I re-installed SageTV to the original directory last night to no avail. I'll try to upgrade my NVIDIA drivers with UAC off. How would the Video Drivers affect which Decoder SageTV is using?

I have in the past installed Shark007 Codec Pack while using Media Browser; could this have caused some sort of problem? I'd hate to have to re-format my HTPC.

[jerryt]

I always try to install the least number of codecs.

It is very possible that the shark007 pack modified the registry for the Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder, so that media center no longer uses it as the default decoder. I don't know if that can effect Sage.

Reinstalling the Nvidia drivers with UAC off, is just an idea on how to get HA working in Sage. It has worked for me on an ATI card. I guess it is a registry entry that is getting misplaced, I don't know how it works...

What was your CPU in WMP with the same recording that Sage was using 20% ?

[frizat]

WMC still works with the Windows Decoders so i'm not sure if Shark007 broke it only for SageTV, but my CPU usage on the same channel (NBC OTAHD) is getting 1-5% in WMC7 whereas in SageTV i'm spiking from 20-35%.

It definitely looks like WMC is using the HA and Sage is not, but I can't seem to show exactly what Codec Sage is using and why it wouldn't use HA?

I'll try install the Drivers w/ Administrator rights and UAC off and see if maybe that clears it up, has anyone else had this much trouble with SageTV 7 and Windows 7?

[Rico66]

Are you using 32 or 64 bit Windows? With 64 bit Windows Media Center uses 64 bit codecs. But Sage uses 32 bit regardless. So a better comparision is using WMP (32 bit version) instead.
Regarding Shark. That codec pack is fairly clean and configurable. By default it leaves the MS DTV decoder untouched, but you can indeed change that part as well (and it warns about potential side effects).
Also, when you say between 20 and 35% cpu utilization, is it more 20 or more 35 and for what content (mpg2 vs mpg4).
The best would be to compare the same clip within Sage and within WMP.

[frizat]

Originally Posted by Rico66

Are you using 32 or 64 bit Windows? With 64 bit Windows Media Center uses 64 bit codecs. But Sage uses 32 bit regardless. So a better comparision is using WMP (32 bit version) instead.
Regarding Shark. That codec pack is fairly clean and configurable. By default it leaves the MS DTV decoder untouched, but you can indeed change that part as well (and it warns about potential side effects).
Also, when you say between 20 and 35% cpu utilization, is it more 20 or more 35 and for what content (mpg2 vs mpg4).
The best would be to compare the same clip within Sage and within WMP.

So I tried a few things out tonight and it looks like I've made a bit of progress. I installed SageTV 7 (without UAC) back to it's original location in C:\Program Files. I also updated my NVIDIA dirvers to the most recent version on the NVIDIA website. This is all being done in Windows 7 32-bit.

I did some comparisons
WMC7 - Live TV - NBC HD - 2%-8% - sits mostly around 8% when playing
SageTV 7 - Live TV - NBC HD - (EVR Windows Codecs) - 15-20% - Sits closer to 20% while the video is being played but this is better than I had before
SageTV 7 - Live TV - NBC HD - (DVX9 Windows Codec) - 40-50% CPU - sits on the higher end
Recorded SageTV 7 file played back in WMC7 - 25-30% CPU
Recorded WMC 7 file played back in WMC7 - 25-30% CPU
Recorded SageTV 7 file played back in WMC7 - 25-35% CPU sit closer to 30%
* note all my recorded TV is in .wtv format or Sage's native format for HD video

I also turned on/off FSE (Full Screen Exclusive mode) but didn't notice any differences. Still, I'm not on par w/ what I am getting in WMC7, which seems to be using the full power of my Video Card.

I also notice that SageTV 7 seems to have jerky playback, this is noticeable while playing Live TV or while playing recorded Live TV. Since my CPU isn't getting hammered I would assume it has to due w/ my video HA.

Lastly, I also tried AC3 and Sage MPEG for audio but noticed no differences.

I appreciate everyone who has read this thread and offered suggestions. I have no idea why this is so tough to setup! I was excited when I saw SageTV could use Win7 Codecs so I could switch over, can't stand looking at WMC anymore.

M

[jerryt]

Live TV for me is 6% in both Sage and WMC with Nvidia GT-430.

[frizat]

Is having DTV-DVD greyed out in my FFDShow the real issue? Should I try the Native Recording patch even though I'm running Windows 7 / Sage 7? I have a feeling that's my root issue.

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by frizat

Is having DTV-DVD greyed out in my FFDShow the real issue? Should I try the Native Recording patch even though I'm running Windows 7 / Sage 7? I have a feeling that's my root issue.

Patch is only for Sage 6.

[frizat]

Well it looks like I'm finally making progress. After giving up on MS Decoder I reinstalled TMT5 and the Arcsoft Decoder. I setup Arcsoft for MPG/H.264 and was able to get around 8-12% while watching Live TV.

It's almost perfectly in line with MS's decoder, maybe a bit higher, but close enough.

The only problem is that Arcsoft doesn't seem to have as clean of a picture and I get what seems to be some jerkiness every 30seconds or so.

I think I'm definitely making progress here, so that's positive. Anyone know if I'd have any benefit moving to PDVD10's codec instead of Arcsoft? Or settings I could use to clean up the jerkiness?

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate all the help/input/suggestions.