Why I won't use Sage still...

[debennett2]

Where's the "close" or "exit" button to just get out of sage and have it run in the tasktray? Exactly why I won't even consider Sage of Snapstream...even though I own both.

[stanger89]

It's called "Sleep Mode" Last button on the default STV, alternatively it's default mapped to "Ctrl+z"

If I'm not actively using Sage, I always put it to sleep and it sits happily in the tray doing it's thing.

[falchulk]

debennett2, put a little effort into using sage and you will prefer it over snapstream.

[debennett2]

Thanks stranger89. Would be nice to be able to rename that you'd think.

EDIT: Now wait a minute! Sleep does not close Sage at all..it brings up some goofy screen saver. I know I could have a button mapped on my remote to do the ctrl-z or whatever it is but I'd much rather see something on the screen that I can arrow down to. Would also be nice to be able ot get rid of all the extra options that I won't ever use (media options).

[gplasky]

Go into options. Screensaver when put to sleep is enabled by default. Disable it. But when you put it to sleep it minimizes to the system tray. By the same token you could use the new "close" command when watching TV, file, video, etc. (Right click and chose close on playing file or map a button.) This will just close the file and return you to the Main Menu.

Gerry

[stanger89]

Originally posted by debennett2
Thanks stranger89. Would be nice to be able to rename that you'd think.

Thing is, I think Sleep is more correct than Close or Exit, those imply closing/exiting the application which to me means it will no longer be running in any form, where as Sleep implies to me that it's just out of the way but still running in the background.

[debennett2]

Tell that to my girlfriend! If your Tivo was magically integrated into your TV along with everything else you may have media-wise, wouldn't you want to hit a "close" button in order not to see it's menues anymore? We're talking about menu-driven applications now, not just Sagetv. If I have 15 other things that use "close" and then all of a sudden I see something that says "sleep", it is going to throw me off. One shouldn;t have to think about ramifications of pressing a button within a user interface like this, so therefor sleep is moot.

[falchulk]

Originally posted by debennett2
Tell that to my girlfriend! If your Tivo was magically integrated into your TV along with everything else you may have media-wise, wouldn't you want to hit a "close" button in order not to see it's menues anymore? We're talking about menu-driven applications now, not just Sagetv. If I have 15 other things that use "close" and then all of a sudden I see something that says "sleep", it is going to throw me off. One shouldn;t have to think about ramifications of pressing a button within a user interface like this, so therefor sleep is moot.

Not exactly. Sleep means "sent to systray" not close. Do any of your other apps have a "send to systray" option? If not, then its 2 totally diffent things.

[Opus4]

In nearly every Windows application, "close" or "exit" means just that -- the program will completely exit and won't be running any more. SageTV's "sleep" command indicates something different -- it will continue to run, but won't take up space on your monitor.

I also don't understand why people think that every new thing (new to them) should work exaclty like other products that they've used. What would be the point? All the various PVR devices and programs offer different features and capabilities. Surely it can't be that difficult to expect your girlfriend, or anyone else, to learn how to use a new product. When she drives a new car, does she find that every button and switch is in the same place as every other car she has driven? Sure, most of the pedals may be the same, but even they are different if you drive an automatic vs. a manual transmission. VCRs even have different features. Your new washing machine will probably be different from your last one. Do you really expect to buy and use a nbew product and not have to spend a little time learning how it works? Please don't take this as an annoyed rant... I'm just trying to use examples to point out that differnt products work, well, differently.

- Andy

[debennett2]

In nearly every Windows application, "close" or "exit" means just that -- the program will completely exit and won't be running any more.

I thought the idea was to forget that fact that we are using a computer...let alone windows. Grandma doesn't care about "Windows".

I also don't understand why people think that every new thing (new to them) should work exaclty like other products that they've used.

See your first quote....doesn't make sense to me. You have to take into consideration where other products are and where they are heading and what exactly it is your product is made for. This product is suppose to be ultimately (at least majorly) for HTPC users. The goal of an HTPC interface is to let one forget (and even go as far as to hide) the fact that they are using a PC. People that don't use PC's don't want to be bothered with whether or not hitting a button will do something undesireable (refering to having a close button rather than a sleep button)..they just assume that it will work anyhow. We are just closing what the enduser sees on the screen, nothing more...exposing ourselves to yet another user interface (which may look very similar to Sage's interface). We are essentially closing interfaces...not performing a PC operation.

Why not just make the button labels changeable? While your at it, why not let us take things off the Sage interface that might be better off in some other interface...or at least work more to our likings....

[mlbdude]

I will post an STV with Sleep changed to Close if it will end this discussion .

[falchulk]

"Why not just make the button labels changeable? While your at it, why not let us take things off the Sage interface that might be better off in some other interface...or at least work more to our likings...."

debennett2, hang out around here more. You might be suprised to learn this is exactly what studio does.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by mlbdude
I will post an STV with Sleep changed to Close if it will end this discussion .

[teedublu]

I kinda agree that SLEEP is misleading. For example, you cannot put the computer to sleep / standby while sage is "asleep". Well you can but don't expect to get anyting recorded.... When they get that working - (sage supported, not a tricky add-on) then I'll be the first one to put that baby to SLEEP!

I also agree that Close or Exit isn't the right words either.

Why that button/feature isn't called called what it is: "Minimize to System Tray" is silly considering this software/system is a far cry from a stand-alone consumer box where "sleep" was probably taken from (yes the WAF has to be there, but only a gearhead will be comfortable setting up this thing, so you may as well make it perfectly clear -- so at least someone knows what the hell this thing is supposed to do.....).

TW

[debennett2]

How about "Exit Sagetv Interface"? That makes sense to me. You are not closing Sage but the interface itself. I'd be very happy with that..as well as being able to get rid of the the "music jukebox" and "media library" options as they are redundant to what a lot of folks already have setup...including me. Is it possible to get rid of those two things?

[mlbdude]

It can be done in about 2 minutes. BTW Go checkout my current STV in the customizations forum. It might have some useful stuff in it already.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by teedublu
For example, you cannot put the computer to sleep / standby while sage is "asleep". Well you can but don't expect to get anyting recorded.... When they get that working - (sage supported, not a tricky add-on) then I'll be the first one to put that baby to SLEEP!

Good luck, I've had nothing but trouble putting my HTPC in S3. I tried sagewake and it would bring my PC out of S3 to record, no problem, but my soundcard never wakes up, I have to reboot my PC. I have yet to see S3 work correctly, even on my laptop it's not quite right, the wireless card never seems to work quite right until I reboot.

[Opus4]

Originally posted by debennett2
How about "Exit Sagetv Interface"? That makes sense to me. You are not closing Sage but the interface itself. I'd be very happy with that..as well as being able to get rid of the the "music jukebox" and "media library" options as they are redundant to what a lot of folks already have setup...including me. Is it possible to get rid of those two things?

Listen to what they said above: ultimately, Studio is supposed to be able to make the changes you desire for the interface.

But, I don't see how "Exit SageTV Interface" is going to be any clearer to many users. It obviously makes sense to you, but there will always be people confused by any refernce to exiting an interface.

You aren't being too consistent here anyway... you want to 'exit' to the sys tray, but then don't like it when sleep mode enters screen saver mode (which keeps SageTV as the only thing a non-geeky-technical person would see), and then complain that non-geeky-technical people shouldn't have to worry about Windows since that should be covered up by a complete HTPC solution. As such, it seems like _any_ sort of 'exit' would be confusing because, horrors , Windows will suddenly rear its ugly head. Computers are like any other tool in the world: to get the most use out of them, users will need to learn a little about how to use them. Even a hammer can be used incorreclty... and what really annoys me about them is that when I pick one up, sometimes the wrong end is facing forward! I shouldn't have to worry about the top, bottom, front back, handle... it should just _work_. I think I better go find another discussion... or use a rock instead of a hammer.... just too technical.

- Andy

[GbrNole]

well said, andy.

life would be so much more simple if people would learn/read before complaining.

[debennett2]

As such, it seems like _any_ sort of 'exit' would be confusing because, horrors , Windows will suddenly rear its ugly head.

The whole idea is to exit sagetv in order to expose another interface. Until all interfaces can be integrated seemlessly (never), we should still take into consideration that users will use other interfaces (like Meedio or Beyond Media for instance) to launch our PVR apps. When we "exit Sagetv interface" we are merely exposing ourselves to whatever frontend we are using..not windows. "Sleep" just does nothing for me logically..I'm sure it makes perfect sense to those who are regulars in this forum and to the evolution of Sage. I'm starting to wish I had taken more time to be in here as well. Maybe it's not too late....