Do Connected TVs make sense?

[wayner]

While it would be nice to have Netflix, etc. on your TV without the need for an external device/box I have no interest in TVs with this functionality. The technology for these sorts of devices changes too quickly - more quickly than I am prepared to buy a new TV and I buy a lot of TVs (I have five HDTVs).

Look at Sage extenders - the life of an average generation for them is less than 18 months as we are on the third generation extender - the HD 100 came out in Dec 2007, less than 37 months ago.

[OneOfMany]

To me, any proprietary standard item that performs a single task, is limited in usefulness. My personal preference is a software solution that can perform all the tasks I want, and be distributable to any device I want.

Hence my love for Sage and PC clients lol.

Grant

[wayner]

I know what you are saying but if those single purpose devices are cheap enough and save lots of hassles then they make sense.

Hence my love of Sage extenders which keep going down in price, especially for us Canucks!

[eric3a]

For me, "connected TVs" don't particularly add any value but then I suspect that most SageTV users are very different from the average TV buyer.

A separate computer to do all the "connected" stuff works better in my opinion as I have more control, more options.
Even if you don't want to run a computer I still think a TV is really nothing more than a big monitor (has been in my house for years at least) and the "connected" functions are better put in a small, much cheaper and easier to upgrade box.

But then the reality so far has been I do the connected stuff on the computers, and the video watching on the TV and haven't mixed the 2 much. Once in a while I'll copy a YouTube clip over to the video server so my wife can watch it but that's about it. Or download an episode Sage missed for some reason. But even then it's download from the computer, watch on the TV so really I don't mix the 2 much.
Eric

[tchapin]

I wouldn't say that the lifetime of a Sage Media Extender is only 18 months. There's no reason why the older ones won't work. I still use 2 MVPs and 1 HD200 and I expect to use them for quite a while.

[OneOfMany]

Even though I dont use the Sage extenders, I dont consider them a single-purpose device. The software (albeit on a server) is upgradeable, they can be flash firmware upgraded, and they seem to push a lot of media types through them. Almost bought one for the bedroom, but after looking at the Socket 1156 Gigabyte miniITX mobo, I think I'll just swap out the ION board in my "homemade" extender and go back to a fan-based system.

[gplasky]

The connected TVs are upgradable also. You're not stuck with what you buy. They can add/modify features.

Gerry

[eric3a]

Correct.
Though it'll be interesting to see which of the manufacturers really come out with frequent and meaningful firmware upgrades. My bet is that they'll quietly let the TVs become obsolete and not bother much.
I suspect not many TV buyers are familiar with firmware upgrades, so won't put much pressure on TV manufacturers. Maybe that will change slowly as people get used to connected TVs.

As a geek it'd be fun to have a homebrew firmware running my TV... but it's a scary proposition if you brick it!
Eric

[wayner]

Originally Posted by gplasky

The connected TVs are upgradable also. You're not stuck with what you buy. They can add/modify features.

You can upgrade an HD-100 to run Sage7 but I would still prefer an HD-300.

[bcjenkins]

I think they make sense. Especially as a SageTV user I would love a way to bring Netflix, Vudu, Hulu Plus, etc., to the TV without another box.

B

[Brent]

Yes. It does make sense although it's a small value add really.

Even better would be a TV with SageTV HTPC extender built in. Oh and throw in an actual way to tune all channels provided by the Cable, Satellite, and OTA sources without some other box.... I can dream can't I?!?

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Brent

Oh and throw in an actual way to tune all channels provided by the Cable, Satellite, and OTA sources without some other box.... I can dream can't I?!?

Why would you need that if you had everthing else? Why watch LiveTV if you have all of these other sources plus a Sage server that can access all channels? LiveTV would be kind of unnecessary in such a configuration.

[eric3a]

Even better would be a TV with SageTV HTPC extender built in.

Nothing that some Duct Tape can't do right now!

Eric

[Brent]

Originally Posted by wayner

Why would you need that if you had everthing else? Why watch LiveTV if you have all of these other sources plus a Sage server that can access all channels? LiveTV would be kind of unnecessary in such a configuration.

First off LiveTV (or almost LiveTV) is a must for me. Sports is the reason.
Secondly it's not about need. It's about want
Finally, if I can have all of that, I want the TV to have an expandable SSD storage slot and the server to be built in. Like I said.... dream.

Originally Posted by eric3a

Nothing that some Duct Tape can't do right now!

duct tape is what I have now.

[Nelbert]

Originally Posted by wayner

Why would you need that if you had everthing else? Why watch LiveTV if you have all of these other sources plus a Sage server that can access all channels? LiveTV would be kind of unnecessary in such a configuration.

I'm guessing you don't have any small children in the house. Live TV is the easiest solution with them especially when their programs are often 5 or 10 mins long. It's easier than trying to create a playlist of recorded programs for them, and there is no way I'd want an hour of peppa pig playing on the tv.

For our household a connected tv is useless as we don't have a tv. We use display panels so have 1 hdmi and 1 vga input only. I was surprised to find it had speakers. It also means I don't need to buy yet another box now DVB-T2 is being broadcast, just a tuner card.

Until the online services become fully integrated and seamless, eg selecting something in the EPG pulls it from iPlayer, ITV Player, 4OD etc if we missed it it doesn't give us anything over using the PS3 which provides much better quality than the PCs in the house.

Our PS3 performs iPlayer, Lovefilm, BlinkBox duties but to be honest we hardly use it.
If someone could explain why YouTube is used as a standard bearer for streaming video services I'd love to know. I've never found anything that makes YouTube streaming a good thing to have.

More importantly until our broadband connection is faster we'll keep getting pauses and can forget HD feeds. We don't have transfer caps to worry about like many people thankfully.
For many UK households their broadband connections have low usage limits and low speeds. It won't take long for all these connected devices take them over their monthly caps at which point they'll either get no internet, very very slow internet or a large bill.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by Brent

Finally, if I can have all of that, I want the TV to have an expandable SSD storage slot and the server to be built in. Like I said.... dream.

Sounds more like a nightmare to me. Why would I want three kinds of tuner, storage, servers, and who knows what else built into my display device? And replicated in every display device in the house? And have to trade in the whole shebang and start over from scratch every time I upgrade the display? All that stuff belongs in a closet somewhere out of sight where it can keep on ticking as I swap out various components (including displays). I don't want the manufacturer trying to miniaturize my AV rack in order to shoehorn it into the back of the TV.

[Brent]

Greg. Why do you have to bring me back to reality? Why!

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Nelbert

I'm guessing you don't have any small children in the house. Live TV is the easiest solution with them especially when their programs are often 5 or 10 mins long. It's easier than trying to create a playlist of recorded programs for them, and there is no way I'd want an hour of peppa pig playing on the tv.

I actually have two small children and the bulk of my Sage content is kid's shows. I have pretty much a full library of: Dora the Explorer, Thomas, Diego, Elmo, Toopy & Binoo, Kipper, etc.

This is all available at the five extenders in my house plus any PC via PS or by just playing the video files in a video player like WMP. Plus it is also very easily copied to a portable hard drive to play on a laptop or netbook.

My kids don't understand the concept of live TV.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Brent

First off LiveTV (or almost LiveTV) is a must for me. Sports is the reason.

Sports is the worst thing to watch live especially NFL football given the action to time ratio (atlhough I don't really watch much football).

I record all of the local basketball and hockey games and watch them in near real-time (the night of the game) and gain many hours in my life. It only takes me 60 minutes to watch a hockey game, not 2.5 hours. And you can watch NFL games in less than 30 minutes - the problem is the live updates of other games if you care about simultaneous games.

[Tiki]

Back in the days before set top boxes ruled the world (20 years ago), internet connected TV would have made a lot of sense (of course there was no internet content 20 years ago)...

The problem is that now that everything is digital and DRM'd most TV watchers need a STB from their Cable or Satellite provider. The TV gets set to an HDMI or component input or tuned to channel 3 and all the tuning is done via the STB.

I would guess that most people just use the univeral remote provided with the STB to turn on their TV and cable box, adjust the volume and change channels. That universal remote most likely cannot even access these new internet widgets.

STB's have really been bad for a lot of nice TV features (Picture-in-Picture is pretty much useless unless you want to hook-up two STB's to a single TV).

This is where a better next-gen cable card solution (like the proposed residential gateway) would make a big difference. If everything was decrypted when it first entered your house so that your TV's no longer required set-top boxes, you could actually use the fancy remote that comes with your TV and take advantage of features like these internet widgets and PIP.