One computer, two TVs

[vj1]

OK, be gentle...I'm a novice in the world of digital TV!

Currently, I have two analog TVs used for over-the-air (antenna) TV.

To cope with the switch to digital and get DVR capability, I plan to set up Sage TV with a digital input card and either analog output to my current TV or maybe a widescreen monitor.

My question is about the second TV. There's cable in my walls, so it'd be easy to link the second TV to the same computer. But then, how do I run it? Is there a solution in which I could use a remote to run the Sage TV running on the computer elsewhere in the house? I have a wireless network, if that helps, but I don't want to have to fire up a laptop to watch TV...

Thanks in advance for your thoughts or links...
--VJ

[GKusnick]

SageTV HD Theater

For best results you'll want to connect it to your Sage PC by wired LAN.

[dgeezer]

You may get as many responses to this question as there are members here in the forums. SageTV is extrememly versatile software which can lead to extremeely complex setups. Here is what I would do if I were in your place, based solely on my own experience with SageTV.

Use an HDHomeRun as my tuner. This has two inputs so you can split your antenna feed to be able to watch two stations at once or record one while watching another etc. Buy it here. Cost 159.00 This tuner could be mounted anywhere taht you have both a cable feed from your antenna and a Cat5 cable from your router. The closer to the antenna the better.

Use a server and extenders setup for your system. You can use an older pc as a recording machine. Mine is an Athlon64 single core with only 1gb ram. However it does have one 750gb and one 1tb hard drives. Digital TV files are Huge! (about 6GB per hour) Important: Format the drives to 64K clusters. I would purchase a drive like this. Cost $109.00

This PC will have Sage set up to run in what they call service mode, which means that it doesn't do any playback. It starts up when windows starts and runs in the background. This could be your current desktop pc for now. The recording and file serving function doesn't require a lot of processing power.

Purchase 2 HD200's as mentioned by GKusnick. Cost 200.00 each. Purchase one at 200.00 and one with the SageTV software bundle for 250.00. This is the most economical way to get the software for your server. These will need to be wired with Cat5 (network) cable from your router to each TV. One of these will sit at each TV. These will take the HD digital recordings from your PC and output a standard definition analogue signal to your TV's.

Cost analysis:
Repurpose an older PC - free
HDHomerun 159.00
1TB Hard drive 109.00
HD200 200.00
HD200 with SageTV software 250.00
--------
Total: 718.00

This is not a trivial undertaking in either time or money. However, it would create a very usable system. You will get the exact same menus and interface on each TV. Both TV's will be able to schedule recordings, playback recordings and watch live TV. Both TV's will have access to any music pictures and other video stored on the server. Also, if you are inclined to tinker with the system and add plugins, you can have automatic commercial skipping on all recorded TV, web access for scheduling, etc. The commercial skipping has probably paid for my system since my daughter hardly ever sees any commercials.....

In reality the cost compares favorably with TIVO. The least expensive box from them that does digital, I believe is this. It only has enough harddrive space for 20 hours of recordings and you would need one at each TV. Cost 299.00 each plus 12.95 per month (753.40 for the first year). Or an upgrade Tivo box with a 1tb hard drive for 599.00 each.

Hope I didn't scare you off with all of this. It's really not that hard to set up. It just takes some research and a fairly methodical approach. The forums here are a great group and are extremely helpful.

[scoful]

If you're just trying to get your feet wet and don't need HD this can be done pretty economically.

I'm assuming you're still going over the air - not cable or satellite. Unfortunately I can't recommend anything there since I'm on cable - perhaps the HDHomerun is the way to go.

In the early days, I used my server for playback and ran cabling to my analog tv in my bedroom so that I could use sage from there. I used an IR extender (a pair of pyramid looking things with antennas on them - one that you point the remote at and the other to place in the living room to retransmit the IR signal to the PC). More recently I have used an RF wireless keyboard as a remote control. I use one by Adesso that has an optical trackball in the upper right corner. It doesn't have the greatest range - so if there are a couple of walls between it may not work.

It is important to understand that if you are running one PC for everything (especially if running HD and/or multiple tuners) that system requirements are pretty high if you want decent playback. A good video card is certainly mandatory. I struggled for a long time with stability on my system running on HD and two SD cable boxes. When it was strictly two SD boxes I had no problems. You can also reduce your server requirements if you can round up another PC to set up as a client. I have a couple of PC's with single core P4's with Nvidia 7300GT video cards that play back HD great. The PC's themselves were recycles - not the greatest specs, but with a good video card do just fine.

[thomaszoo]

I agree with all of the advice that dgeezer gave you. The extenders greatly simplify the setup and greatly increase the reliability. In fact, I would hold my system up against a TIVO or any cable company supplied PVR. Newegg is a reliable supplier that generally has great prices. I currently have 2 extenders, one that sits right next to my Sage PC. Even though it has a video card that is capable, I have found it is not worth the trouble of tweaking drivers, etc. for playback and I don't have to worry about crashing the server now while something else is recording. For some it also means being able to locate their Sage PC away from the TV (mine has always been in a media closet). If money is tight, you can always wait to buy the second extender.

Wayne

[vj1]

Originally Posted by dgeezer

Purchase 2 HD200's as mentioned by GKusnick. Cost 200.00 each. Purchase one at 200.00 and one with the SageTV software bundle for 250.00. This is the most economical way to get the software for your server. These will need to be wired with Cat5 (network) cable from your router to each TV. One of these will sit at each TV. These will take the HD digital recordings from your PC and output a standard definition analogue signal to your TV's.

Wow, many thanks for the helpful and detailed responses!

One question regarding the suggestion above: Would I really need the two HD200's? Assuming I'm willing to have the server PC in my living room or bedroom, I'm thinking I could either use a video card with TV out to connect it directly to one of the TVs or replace one TV with a monitor. Seems like this would knock $200 off the total price?

--VJ

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by vj1

Wow, many thanks for the helpful and detailed responses!

One question regarding the suggestion above: Would I really need the two HD200's? Assuming I'm willing to have the server PC in my living room or bedroom, I'm thinking I could either use a video card with TV out to connect it directly to one of the TVs or replace one TV with a monitor. Seems like this would knock $200 off the total price?

--VJ

You could do it with one extender and the PC. But you would need a pretty good video card, lots of patience and something to help those headaches ! I did it this way for a long time; I will never go back now that I have tried the extenders. With the PC there are many variables from drivers and codecs to ???. If you love tweaking, this may work for you. If you just want it to work reliably, go the extender route.

Wayne

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by vj1

Wow, many thanks for the helpful and detailed responses!

One question regarding the suggestion above: Would I really need the two HD200's? Assuming I'm willing to have the server PC in my living room or bedroom, I'm thinking I could either use a video card with TV out to connect it directly to one of the TVs or replace one TV with a monitor. Seems like this would knock $200 off the total price?

--VJ

For most capture devices (including the HDHomerun mentioned above) recording doesn't require much in the way of processing power. So you can record with an older, slower PC with a cheap video card or even integrated graphics.

However, playback is much more demanding - especially if you are recording HD (High Definition) broadcasts. It requires that you have a newer video card with all the right drivers and codecs installed on your PC. The video card must have the right type of connector (component, composite, S-Video, VGA, DVI, HDMI, ...) to work with your TV or you will need some type of adapter. You will also need the right cables to connect the audio signal.

PC's can also be unstable and difficult to troubleshoot because there is an almost infinite number of possible combinations of hardware and software that all must play nice together. If you enjoy tinkering with computers and have patience or are lucky, you can do what you propose and will be happy.

You may want to try using just one extender and running the second TV directly from the PC as you proposed. If you find that your old PC is under-powered or doesn't have the right video card, it may be easier and less expensive to get a second HD200 extender than to upgrade your old PC.

[dgeezer]

Having a PC next to one of your TVs will definitely work providing it has enough graphics ability to output the video. I've never tried to output SD from a digital HD signal but I imagine that it would take the same videocard as outputting HDTV.

I operated for about 10 months with a single extender (HD100) at the TV in our livingroom where my wife and daughter could use it. I had a PC acting as a server and a client attached to the TV in the basement. I was the main user of this TV. I had an HP m8200n PC with an Athlon 64 X2 processor and an add-on nvidia 8500 series video card. It was able to playback HDTV fairly cleanly. However, as soon as the HD200 became available I bought one and retired this PC to be my desktop. My old desktop ( Emacines Athlon 64 single core, no video card) became the server for my two extenders. We all like this setup much better. Plus, I now have an overpowered desktop to run Quickbooks and spreadsheets.

Weird things always seemed to happen with the single PC. Sage would be closed down or lose focus, some background process would interfere with video playback, or my daughter would turn the PC off and we'd miss recordings etc.