Micro Freezing on tv recodings

[Hunter69]

Recently I have been having a weird issue that I am not sure how to tackle. I have experienced this issue on different recordings. The issue is micro freezing randomly while watching a tv recording. The playback will freeze for a fraction of a second then resume. At this point I know for sure I have seen this on 2 different recodings. This has happened on both a hd200 and hd300. My setup is in my signature. The biggest change I have is that The harddrive that is used for recording is not in the pool. I will define my current setup more thoroughly to assist in you thought process to see if someone can brainstorm how to address this problem:
WHS server with a AMD 9750 quadcore and 4 gig of ram. Recording is being done to a WD 1 TB black drive. I have only extenders as clients 1 HD300 and 2 HD200's. The extenders are connected to the server by HP Procurve 1400 gig switch.

I have the latest version of sagetv V7 installed.

I have not noticed this issue on live tv.

I appreciate any help possible.

[InsertHere]

I have this same problem. It started when I moved to the 7.x version. I haven't changed anything else in a looong time, so have to suspect it's related.

[Skirge01]

If you rewind, does it happen in the same spot? If not, it sounds like it could be a bandwidth issue, which could be network or server based. For me, I've seen this and suspect it's my WD Green drives not being fast enough for a few recordings combined with playback and comskip.

[InsertHere]

For me it's in the same spot if I rewind. Only happens on recorded TV shows, not imported videos or live TV.

I'm using an HD200 for playback.

[inskeepp]

I'm having this problem with the HD-PVR. HDHR is fine.
The HD-PVR light blinks. It got better when I went back to driver 1.5.6.1 but still not good. I then upgraded back to 1.5.7.0 and it did not get worse again but still not good.
This all seem to go bad after beta 7.0.16. It was pretty solid under 6 and most of beta 7

[cesthree]

I believe I am having the same issue; however, I am experiencing the same thing when watching DVD's from my HDD's from a folder.

It's hard to describe what is happening. Basically the audio/video playback slows and the sound is like the movements of the large robot from the Terminator Salvation, called a Harvester. Like a robot voice or an actuator that is freaking out. I guess you can call it micro-stuttering.

I have only ever used this version of SageTV MC, the latest RC 6 7.0.22.

I plan on picking up an HD300 in two days along with a license for SageTV MC; getting a Play-On subscription as well. Slick plug-ins for SageTV sold me.

Should I report this as a bug via the official link? Does this sound like the same issue the OP is having?

Is there an easy way to roll-back to version 6.6 until 7 gets stable?

Peace. Looking forward to this community.

[Hunter69]

Well I don't believe I seen this problem start until V7.20. I have experienced freezing in the past but it was definitely different. The freezing I exp prior to this was a hard drive problem. I have the smart add in and do not see an issue with this hard drive. It is a rather new drive. I bought a wd black to get the necessary bandwidth/access to run everything smooth. I have debugging enabled and I grabbed a copy of the log right after it happened. I am hoping the debug log will give a clue as to why it is doing this. I emailed sage support but I did not see a place to attach the log. I did not know if it was a "bug report" so I used the standard support off the home web page (although it only asks about V6. I am currently was on a response.

I am going to look into the suggestion to determine whether or not this is random or always in the same place. Then I am going to see if it is related to a specific tuner (hdhomerun or hdpvr).

Thanks for chiming in I welcome any and all help
Bill

[Jynxed]

I'm having a similar problem. For me I see the HD-PVR recording light blink off for a second or two then pick up recording again. Can't remember when it started but I don't remember it happening on version 6.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Jynxed

I'm having a similar problem. For me I see the HD-PVR recording light blink off for a second or two then pick up recording again. Can't remember when it started but I don't remember it happening on version 6.

This is generally linked to a bad signal, macroblocking, or audio problems. The HDPVR is pretty sensitive and if it gets something it doesn't like (it's very sensitive to the AC3 stream if using TOSLINK) it just pukes and resets. Seems like it's at the driver level which is something Sage can't control.

[Jynxed]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

This is generally linked to a bad signal, macroblocking, or audio problems. The HDPVR is pretty sensitive and if it gets something it doesn't like (it's very sensitive to the AC3 stream if using TOSLINK) it just pukes and resets. Seems like it's at the driver level which is something Sage can't control.

I considered submitting a bug report but I haven't ruled out my cable provider. I have U-verse and haven't ruled out ATT.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

This is generally linked to a bad signal, macroblocking, or audio problems. The HDPVR is pretty sensitive and if it gets something it doesn't like (it's very sensitive to the AC3 stream if using TOSLINK) it just pukes and resets. Seems like it's at the driver level which is something Sage can't control.

This isn't entirely accurate. The actual issue is caused by the "audio chip" Hauppauge used in the HD-PVR. The chip is designed to handle stereo OR DD, exclusively. What this means is that if the audio stream switches between the two, the chip itself needs to stop and restart in order to record the new stream. This is what causes the momentary blip. I got this information directly from Hauppauge after an extensive bout of troubleshooting this very issue. In essence, it's not a bug, it's a feature!

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

This isn't entirely accurate. The actual issue is caused by the "audio chip" Hauppauge used in the HD-PVR. The chip is designed to handle stereo OR DD, exclusively. What this means is that if the audio stream switches between the two, the chip itself needs to stop and restart in order to record the new stream. This is what causes the momentary blip. I got this information directly from Hauppauge after an extensive bout of troubleshooting this very issue. In essence, it's not a bug, it's a feature!

That only makes partial sense. If audio is coming in via the composite jacks, it is analog and needs to be encoded and there is no DD via analog so that shouldn't be an issue. If it is coming in on the TOSLINK it is already digital and and already encoded as AC3. There are some minor differences in the AC3 header depending on if the data is stereo or 5.1, but it makes no sense for the box to decode an already digital stream just to re-encode it with the video. That's an extra step, using extra time, generating extra heat, etc.

With that said, I've stated before that I believe the HDPVR suffers from PPE (P*ss poor engineering) so it actually wouldn't surprise me if they are pulling that stream apart and re-encoding it

It is nice to hear the official stance on it though

[glynor]

For the record, I'm having this same exact issue. To confirm my details:

SageTV 7.0.23.246
Windows 7 Pro (64-bit)
Intel Core i5 750 CPU and 4GB RAM
Hauppauge HD-PVR using Optical input

Also, to confirm, the data IS actually missing from my files when this happens. I can back up and the skip happens at the same exact moment. Also, for the record, I've have almost no problems with my HD-PVR since I bought it a long while back, with both SageTV and BeyondTV before that (none of the seemingly-common needs to reboot it or things like that).

Like the other posters here, I used SageTV 7 through many of the betas and it was always fine. For me, it seemed like the problem started somewhere fairly close to the first Release Candidate build, though I wasn't updating to every single build that came out, so I may have missed a few.

I have not been able to find a solution, and it is still happening. I've tried a number of things, including completely reinstalling the device and SageTV from scratch. It does seem, somehow, to be worse on some channels and fine on others (which doesn't make a lot of sense, unless it is choking on the actual input signals itself), but maybe that's my imagination. Either way, HBO is particularly troublesome.

One little note... I did, just today, check the output resolution settings on my Motorola cable box and discovered that somehow it had gotten switched back to 1080i mode (the default) and the 480 override was reset. I'd always kept it locked on 720p before, and I'm not sure how it got changed (maybe a power outage or something)? I switched it back to the 720p setting, and I'll report back if it seems to help.

[inskeepp]

A brief update. I ended up doing a complete windows reinstall and install of SageTV when it got out of beta. The problem when away for quite a while.
At one point Sage locked up and it came back. I ran hwclear, reinstalled, switched to analog, changed resolution on the cable box. Nothing worked. Because it happens under analog audio I do not think it's related to the cable boxes ac3 stream.

I opened a ticket for support. They asked me to uninstall all my plugins (comskip and playon support) and turn on logging and send them a file with the problem. I am still working on that, trying to get a small file with the issue. I will say I think it is a bit better without the plugins, but I suppose it could be a co-incidence.
Looking through the log myself, knowing the approximate times the video dropped, I don't see anything obvious. Anyway I'll post back if anything comes of this. For now I'm still getting pauses but not as frequent.

[tedson]

I don't think it is HDPVR related. When I first moved from 6 to 7 beta this started happening on both my HDPVR and HDHR. I sent samples and logs to Sage, we went through a whole bunch of changes, nothing fixed it and we never found the cause. Switching back to 6 always made the problem go away. I finally just decided to live with it so I could get the other features of 7.

[Evil_Attorney]

Having this exact same problem with data actually missing (also using optical audio). On a recorded show, it simply jumps over the gap. On live TV, it pauses, then stutters a bit to catch up.

I have checked the Sage logs when it happens and notice no error or other weirdness. The HDPVR seems to stop and start again without Sage knowing it (maybe).

I was thinking it was a driver issue since I upgraded to Sage 7 around the same time I upgraded to the latest HDPVR drivers 1.5.7.0, but I haven't tried previous versions of drivers or Sage 6 to test.

I can say that when I had version 6 I would get micro dropouts on the sound with about the same frequency. This would cause my receiver to mute the sound for a second or two to figure out what format it is in. I don't think recording actually stopped; it was just the audio. I am not now getting this micro dropout anymore.

Does anyone have any earlier versions of the HDPVR driver they could let me try out. I only have version 1.0.3.47 which is probably too old.

[Evil_Attorney]

I reverted back to the '301 version of the HdPVR driver and there is a difference. Previously on the latest driver version the HDPVR would seemingly turn off and back on again for a second, causing Sage to pause for a second or two, then stutter for about three seconds to catch up. With the '301 drivers I will only get a slight occasional jitter for a fraction of a second with no after stutter.

I also noticed a slight difference in picture quality. '301 was less sharp than the latest driver. Any one else noticed this? I wonder if the latest driver is somehow overtaxing the encoder chip somehow?

[inskeepp]

Nothing ever came of the support ticket. The suggested the normal stuff suggesting to use analog audio...all stuff I had read about and tried before. They also said the code around the HD-PVR was not changed with V7.

I did notice that if I reduce the recording quality the freezes went away. I still get some digital noise in the picture from time to time but no more freezes. I set it to the default setting in the bundled software, where I had previously had it maxed out. Not sure if this was necessary.
I also reduced in Sage from the max (Best I think?) to one level (to Great I think?). This seemed to make the difference. When I moved it back up the pauses came back. So I am convinced this is the problem at least on my system.
Win 7 32bit
4 Gigs
Core 2 Duo 3 GHz
1 HDHR and 1 HD-PVR

[phareous]

I have the same problem...I have a mix of sources (Colossus, Homerun, AverMedia A180). I replaced all my network switches, checked other machines on the network (for example, a malfunctioning file server), and checked the htpc server harddrives. I ran out of ideas and didn't get much further with determining the cause.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by phareous

I have the same problem...I have a mix of sources (Colossus, Homerun, AverMedia A180). I replaced all my network switches, checked other machines on the network (for example, a malfunctioning file server), and checked the htpc server harddrives. I ran out of ideas and didn't get much further with determining the cause.

This is a problem with the new beta (7.1.17) in my opinion. I just upgraded to it yesterday from 7.1.16 and the first two recorded shows we watched (both of which were recorded with my 2250 NOT my HD-PVR) had "micro freezes" about every 20 minutes. Both of the shows we watched were hour long shows and they had about 3 micro freezes in each show.

So this is not just an HD-PVR issue as I have the same problem on my PVR-2250.