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#21
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agreed, if a URC does everything you need, a PC-based setup is unneeded. But if all you're doing is touchscreens to control your system, there's no actual home "automation" occuring - that's just alternative manual control. Girder/NR or EventGhost aren't really competitors for CQC.
But that's another thread entirely, and educating folks on the upside of true automation is a long road. I'm sure in several years, people will begin to see the value and then want to have that in their systems, but the market just isn't that needy yet. CQC is probably 5 years ahead of its time. Hell, most folks are content with just a basic non-networked/non-whole house Tivo with an 80GB hard disk, SageTV is even overkill for them. |
#22
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- Jeff |
#23
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My 2 cents -
I didn't take the context to be HTPC. We're in the community forum and anything goes here. B
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Running SageTV on unRAID via Docker Tuning handled by HDHR3-6CC-3X2 using OpenDCT |
#24
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From what I can gather, CQC is an HA framework/IDE, not an HA system. I think that's sort of the problem for CQC. If you're looking for a framework/IDE you're probably an installer and then you've got CQC vs Crestron/AMX (which you likely already know). If you're an end user, you're looking for an HA system, not a framework/IDE (maybe a system with a good framework/IDE). CQC is, I think, a lot like SageTV without an STV. It's a great framework with a lot of power behind it, but without the glue that makes it do stuff, it's useless out of the box. The way I see it is CQC basically caters only to the techy who simply can't get access to Crestron software (ie isn't an installer), that's an incredibly small market. I think they would do/would have done better if they offered some sort of "starter" package, ie the software running in a "box" with a couple controllers/modules all preconfigured so you can just plug and go. This sounds like it's sort of what's on the table now with Dean's new discussions. Quote:
It kind of parallels back to SageTV. In a few years we'll have a lot more people seeing the value of multiroom DVRs, but DirecTV, Dish, and the cable companies will be there with plug and play solutions that satisfy even more people. |
#25
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Sometime ago I would have agreed with you on that but now more people want to moving to Media Center and if look you see both Cable and Satellite are start to build there so called ver of Whole Home DVR Server Service which I think FAIL be for there even got started after all there useless vs SageTV or even MCE.
Last edited by SHS; 07-19-2010 at 09:09 AM. |
#26
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Quote:
- Jeff |
#27
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They do have a thrown together mce system I gave them some parts for. I'm about to upgrade it for them so it will get better for them, but the whole home dvr is not good enough for some people due to the tuner limitation. As of right now whole home dvr's are not what they should be. EDIT: basically people want something plug and play. They don't want to have to learn anything or figure anything out. That is why I used to charge people so much to do home theater installs. They have no clue or interest in learning how to hook up their HT much less HA. This plug and play problem is not good because if you can't hook it up, you can't fix it when it breaks either.
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SageTV Server: unRAID Docker v9, S2600CPJ, Norco 24 hot swap bay case, 2x Xeon 2670, 64 GB DDR3, 3x Colossus for DirecTV, HDHR for OTA Living room: nVidia Shield TV, Sage Mini Client, 65" Panasonic VT60 Bedroom: Xiomi Mi Box, Sage Mini Client, 42" Panasonic PZ800u Theater: nVidia Shield TV, mini client, Plex for movies, 120" screen. Mitsubishi HC4000. Denon X4300H. 7.4.4 speaker setup. Last edited by panteragstk; 07-19-2010 at 11:00 AM. |
#28
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I use a HA system called Control4 that is somewhat cheaper than Crestron but that allows users to do a fair amount of programming themselves. I use the system for controlling my lights, blinds (in bedroom) and HVAC but I don't really use it for Home Theatre since I believe Sage with extenders is a better solution as long as you buy Harmony remotes for all of your TV locations.
Using Control4 for all of your AV requires a controller at each AV location ($500-$1000 per controller) or wiring from your controller to each room for IR bugs that then must be placed on your devices. But it is somewhat frustrated in that you have to call a dealer to install any hardware and even to change A/V components if you use the system for that. And the system isn't cheap - starting point for most installs is probably about $10k or much more depending on how much hardware. Light dimmers run about $100 each (+labor) and most folks will probably have dozens of them to be connected to the system.
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New Server - Sage9 on unRAID 2xHD-PVR, HDHR for OTA Old Server - Sage7 on Win7Pro-i660CPU with 4.6TB, HD-PVR, HDHR OTA, HVR-1850 OTA Clients - 2xHD-300, 8xHD-200 Extenders, Client+2xPlaceshifter and a WHS which acts as a backup Sage server |
#29
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#30
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I realize there is nothing wrong with that setup. It just shows how spoiled we are with SageTV. To All - The same type of argument (stock DVR vs "more complicated" SageTV system) could be made for CQC. It is a complex enough system that it causes many people to simply dismiss it. But for those people that do "wade" into it, it can be a complete game changer for them. It allows you to harness the power of the systems in your house in ways most don't people haven't even thought about.
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i7-6700 server with about 10tb of space currently SageTV v9 (64bit) Ceton InfiniTV ETH 6 cable card tuner (Spectrum cable) OpenDCT HD-300 HD Extenders (hooked to my whole-house A/V system for synched playback on multiple TVs - great during a Superbowl party) Amazon Firestick 4k and Nvidia Shield using the MiniClient Using CQC to control it all Last edited by sic0048; 07-19-2010 at 12:01 PM. |
#31
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Quote:
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now if you took a 'replicator' or some such, and made a bit perfect copy of said stereo, that would be an accurate analogy... of course if you had a stereo replicator that would mean there were (or at least could be) an infinite supply of stereos, and anyone who has ever glanced at a supply vs demand chart in econ 101 quickly realizes that infinite supply = $0.00 cost, so can you really steal something that is worth $0.00? note, I happily paid lots of money for CQC, and I am paid up on the $100/year maintenance fee for the next couple years... I paid not for some infinite supply of bits, but for the very limited supply of Dean... (while that wording kind of sounds bad, any CQC user knows exactly what I mean... new versions that always have cool new features, very stable, great customer support, excellent technical support, etc) |
#32
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Looking at it from our point of view that limits us to two tuners in each location instead of 8 for all locations. If people don't know what they are missing they can't miss it.
__________________
SageTV Server: unRAID Docker v9, S2600CPJ, Norco 24 hot swap bay case, 2x Xeon 2670, 64 GB DDR3, 3x Colossus for DirecTV, HDHR for OTA Living room: nVidia Shield TV, Sage Mini Client, 65" Panasonic VT60 Bedroom: Xiomi Mi Box, Sage Mini Client, 42" Panasonic PZ800u Theater: nVidia Shield TV, mini client, Plex for movies, 120" screen. Mitsubishi HC4000. Denon X4300H. 7.4.4 speaker setup. |
#33
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Those folks who don't do true home automation don't know what they're missing. Unfortunately there is no such thing as low complexity home automation, and it'll be difficult to ever provide a GUI as there are an infinite # of combinations of hardware you could have. Plus, a GUI is just alternative manual control, if that's all you do you've missed the point of home automation. You need automated monitoring of a wide variety of devices, a robust rules engine to intelligently take action based on device status/time of day/interaction of other devices/many other things. Alas I also agree that the act of setting it all up could be much easier, a few wizards would go a long way. |
#34
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I mostly love my sage setup, but it will never be mainstream. The closest thing sage could get to plug n play like the mainstream wants would have to eliminate many HD sources right now, definitely anything involving the HDPVR. Sure some have it working flawlessly, but can you imagine the hold times for support in those who don't and are expecting it to "just work"?
My neighbors see a mental defect in me for the amount of time I spend messing with my glorified DVR. They see the benefits of whole house distribution, comskip, etc., but would never dream of spending as much time squashing bugs as I do.
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[size=1]Current Server:V9 UNRAID Docker, SuperMicro x9dri-LNF4+, 32 GB ECC, 2x Xeon e5-2660v2, storage array 6TB, 2 Dish r5000HD tuners, 1 HDHomerun Quatro, 1 HDHomerun Extend 4 Nvidia Shield TVs with Miniclient |
#35
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And there it is. We (Sage types) are a small minority. And those of us that are willing to roll our own HA are an even smaller minority. So the market for Dean's type of products is small and the few players there are, are fighting for slivers. I don't see it changing for a long time, if ever.
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#36
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I wonder why Sage doesn't adopt the model used by Squeezebox (now owned by Logitech). Open source the software and sell the hardware.
- Jeff |
#37
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#38
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#39
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well, there's nothing to stop those devs who WOULD have loved to contribute to CQC to start an HA project themselves. It may be almost as easy, especially considering the expected behavior of a good HA system is already known, and it would be built from the ground up as an OpenSource system, most likely very modular, and easy to grow.
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Buy Fuzzy a beer! (Fuzzy likes beer) unRAID Server: i7-6700, 32GB RAM, Dual 128GB SSD cache and 13TB pool, with SageTVv9, openDCT, Logitech Media Server and Plex Media Server each in Dockers. Sources: HRHR Prime with Charter CableCard. HDHR-US for OTA. Primary Client: HD-300 through XBoxOne in Living Room, Samsung HLT-6189S Other Clients: Mi Box in Master Bedroom, HD-200 in kids room |
#40
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Tonight, I was reading an article about home improvements that do not add value to your house. Home automation was one of those repairs. It is a shame, however, in this economy, it is not priority. We have been putting most our money into making energy efficient repairs over cosmetic or luxury repairs. We have made cheap cosmetic repairs such as painting, changing light fixtures, etc. But kitchen remodel will be years down the road. And something like home automation, not sure that will be happening in any time in the the near or long term future.
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