Windows 7 woes (Remotes & Turning off TV)

[Spectrum]

I reloaded my Sage box with Windows 7 Pro x64 last night (it had Vista x64 before) and so far have things back to "mostly" right.

The only problems I am having now are with my MCE remote and Sage recovering from the TV being turned off then back on.

The Remote:
I have the ugly MCE remote from a few years back and I cannot get the green button to stop attempting to launch WMC (and crashing) or throwing up a box complaining that eshell.exe is not there if I remove Media Center through the Add/Remove windows features box.
I tried unchecking "Enable access to this component" next to WMC in Set Program Access and Computer Defaults which causes a pop-up box that says access to eshell.exe has been prohibited by a software policy.
I tried using LM-Remote Keymap as per this example but LRK seems to intercept the keypress AND pass it right through to Windows, the behavior does NOT change. I also tried SageTVLauncher and it doesn't seem to do anything either.
Also even when Sage is running, pressing the green button does not go back to the home screen like it did in XP and Vista.

Another remote issue is the Recorded TV, Guide, Live TV, and DVD Menu seem to work intermittently. They may work once out of 3 presses or 5 out of 5. Repeatedly mashing the buttons or holding them down does not seem to have any effect on their reliability.

Everything worked fine in Vista a few hours before the install so I don't think it's bad hardware. Does anyone have any ideas on how to make the buttons work reliably, the green button go to the home screen in Sage and not attempt to launch WMC or complain that it is not there? Text boxes popping up ruin the experience

Turning the TV off and back on:
My TV is a 720P LCD connected via a DVI to HDMI cable. Video card is an Nvidia GeForce 9600 running the latest drivers (197.45).
Since installing Win7 whenever I turn the my TV off and back on the computer makes the devices removed then devices installed beeps just like it does when unplugging or plugging in a USB device. If Sage is full screen, when the picture comes back up the display is crammed over the the left of the screen and is displayed in a 4x3 aspect ratio with a big black bar on the right. Going from fullscreen -> windowed -> fullscreen rectifies the problem but that is only a work around, not a solution. I tried FSE and that doesn't make a difference. I haven't tried older drivers yet, but before I start playing that game, I thought I would ask if anyone has seen this before and might have an easy solution.

Other possibly relevant factors:
I did a clean install of Windows and Sage 6.6.2 and have updated to the latest STV. I'm running the default STV, no STVi's are installed.

I'll be happy to answer any other questions, provide logs, etc.

RD

[gplasky]

In Windows 7 go to Control Panel-Programs and Features-Turn Windows Features on or off. Go to the Media Features folder and expand it. Uncheck Windows Media Center. Reboot. Now make sure Sage is configured for the MCE Remote and all the buttons should operate properly and WMC will not interfere with it. If you want WMC back just check the box and everything will be as it was before.

Go to the properties of your devices and the power management tab and uncheck the Allow the computer to put the device to sleep or whatever it says. If you use the power button on your remote to put the PC to sleep but then pushing the remote power button doesn't wake it up make sure you set a jumper on your motherboard that continuously supplies +5v to your USB ports.

Gerry

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by gplasky

In Windows 7 go to Control Panel-Programs and Features-Turn Windows Features on or off. Go to the Media Features folder and expand it. Uncheck Windows Media Center. Reboot. Now make sure Sage is configured for the MCE Remote and all the buttons should operate properly and WMC will not interfere with it. If you want WMC back just check the box and everything will be as it was before.

Go to the properties of your devices and the power management tab and uncheck the Allow the computer to put the device to sleep or whatever it says. If you use the power button on your remote to put the PC to sleep but then pushing the remote power button doesn't wake it up make sure you set a jumper on your motherboard that continuously supplies +5v to your USB ports.

Gerry

I've been down the first road but I went down it again. Now the u/d/l/r arrow keys are giving double presses 80-90% of the time. Whenever I hit the green button I here a beep and see a quick flash in the middle of the screen that is the result of a text box popping up in the background. The good news is that the green button now takes me back to the home screen, but I get a beep and a new text box every time.

As a side note the remote still provides input to Sage when the remote config is set to none/external just no functionality from green button (other than the message box), Recorded TV, Live TV, or DVD Menu buttons. Still get double presses on arrow keys too.

I had already disabled the sleep button on the remote. Nothing like in-inadvertently pressing it and having to get up to turn the system back on!

[Spectrum]

Actually it seems like most buttons are showing double presses. U/D/L/R, OK/Enter, numbers/*/# keys, FF/RW are the ones I can confirm so far. Double key-presses are only happening in Sage. The remote will actually navigate around a text document and input numbers and symbols correctly with no double presses. That makes me think the remote itself is OK as well as Windows' drivers....

[gplasky]

Did you link any of the buttons on the remote to the Sage commands? The remote itself uses the same messages as the arrow keys on a remote. The arrow keys shouldn't need to be linked in Sage. The defaults should have just worked. You can unlink them in the Sage Detailed Settings-Commands menu.

Gerry

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

Turning the TV off and back on:
My TV is a 720P LCD connected via a DVI to HDMI cable. Video card is an Nvidia GeForce 9600 running the latest drivers (197.45).
Since installing Win7 whenever I turn the my TV off and back on the computer makes the devices removed then devices installed beeps just like it does when unplugging or plugging in a USB device. If Sage is full screen, when the picture comes back up the display is crammed over the the left of the screen and is displayed in a 4x3 aspect ratio with a big black bar on the right. Going from fullscreen -> windowed -> fullscreen rectifies the problem but that is only a work around, not a solution. I tried FSE and that doesn't make a difference. I haven't tried older drivers yet, but before I start playing that game, I thought I would ask if anyone has seen this before and might have an easy solution.

This has been mentioned before. IT is actually do to the new display detection system in Win7, combined with SOME HDTV's habit of completely turning off the HDMI ports when turned off (including the EDID info). Windows sees this as unplugging the display, so it reverts to it's 'default' 1024x768 desktop, and back to 1920x1080 when reconnected (which sage doesn't seem to gracefully switch to/from on it's own). I've seen two ways people have gotten around this:

1. Those using USB-UIRT and an external program like Girder or LMRemote have sage minimize and restore upon receiving the 'TV-On' IR command.

2. Others have purchased a device like the 'DVI Doctor' to simulate the display always being there.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Did you link any of the buttons on the remote to the Sage commands? The remote itself uses the same messages as the arrow keys on a remote. The arrow keys shouldn't need to be linked in Sage. The defaults should have just worked. You can unlink them in the Sage Detailed Settings-Commands menu.

Gerry

I had not linked anything to the remote but for giggles I tried unlinking the arrow buttons on the remote. That resulted in the u/d/l/r remote buttons not working at all and neither did the arrow keys on the keyboard. It's almost like Windows is intercepting the remote codes and handing sage the remote code AND the corresponding button press. ie if up is pressed on the remote, sage ends up seeing the up remote code along with an up arrow keyboard code. I don't have anything to back this up though and can't think of a way to test it...

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

This has been mentioned before. IT is actually do to the new display detection system in Win7, combined with SOME HDTV's habit of completely turning off the HDMI ports when turned off (including the EDID info). Windows sees this as unplugging the display, so it reverts to it's 'default' 1024x768 desktop, and back to 1920x1080 when reconnected (which sage doesn't seem to gracefully switch to/from on it's own). I've seen two ways people have gotten around this:

1. Those using USB-UIRT and an external program like Girder or LMRemote have sage minimize and restore upon receiving the 'TV-On' IR command.

2. Others have purchased a device like the 'DVI Doctor' to simulate the display always being there.

Thanks for the info Fuzzy. That's not what I wanted to hear though It looks like a USB-UIRT might be in my future.

I did try the 7.0.11 Beta last night and everything persisted so using that to avoid both problems is out. Any idea if the resolution changing been reported as a bug for version 7? It seems like that is something that could potentially bite enough people to get the devs attention.

[Fuzzy]

It isn't a version 7 only bug, but was there in v6 as well. it is a change to the way windows handles things in win7, and the sage problem is that it doesn't properly handle changing screen resolutions when full-screen.

[Spectrum]

Yup I get that it is not just V7. I tried V7 in hopes that it would respond to the resolution changes. Unfortunately it does not.

My question was is there any way to tell if this has been submitted as a bug? It is not something MS will change because of HDCP. They want the DVI port disabled when the EDID disappears to prevent swapping to a recording device and copying <sarcasm>that oh so precious</sarcasm> blu-ray content.

I would think this is something the devs should be able to fix by watching for resolution changes and making sage adjust. Using yet another device to fix a software problem is a bit ridiculous. The only reason I am considering a USB-UIRT to get around it is because it has the ability to fix my remote issues as well and make channel changing on my HDPVR a bit smoother (Hauppage's IR blaster is horrible).

[Fuzzy]

Ultimately, I still feel it's a problem with the TV itself. Whether turned on or off, the TV should still respond to EDID. Most TV's do... some cheaper ones do not... I figure the $50 or whatever for the DVI Doctor isn't that bad considering the money saved buying the cheaper sets.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

I tried using LM-Remote Keymap as per this example but LRK seems to intercept the keypress AND pass it right through to Windows, the behavior does NOT change

Are you absolutely sure that you unplugged your remote and plugged it back (or restarting at least two times your computer)? This is required when you select "Exclusive use of..."

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Are you absolutely sure that you unplugged your remote and plugged it back (or restarting at least two times your computer)? This is required when you select "Exclusive use of..."

Regards,
Stéphane.

Quite positive. There were multiple reboots and re-plugs involved while I was working on the remote issue. No matter what I do it seems to send remote codes AND keypresses to Sage and the OS always attempts to launch eshell.exe if it is there. If eshell.exe has been removed through the Control Panel it throws up the error box that I took a screenshot of and posted earlier. I did try running the remote code viewer thing and when it was active it seemed to block sending the codes to Windows, but without it running it tries to launch eshell.exe for every green button press.

I have removed LRK but I can re-install it and enable logging if you think the logs would help you. Just let me know and I'll be glad to oblige.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Ultimately, I still feel it's a problem with the TV itself. Whether turned on or off, the TV should still respond to EDID. Most TV's do... some cheaper ones do not... I figure the $50 or whatever for the DVI Doctor isn't that bad considering the money saved buying the cheaper sets.

I agree about the EDID thing and my TV is older and is of the in-expensive variety

I did submit a bug report for V7 and got a response that Sage should be monitoring the resolution change and fix it. The devs requested some logs etc so maybe they can work this out Just gotta wait for a break in recordings so I can enable logging etc etc.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

No matter what I do it seems to send remote codes AND keypresses to Sage and the OS always attempts to launch eshell.exe if it is there.

LM RKM doesn't "block" codes from the remote, it essentially remap them, so it is perfectly normal that it let them flow unless you customize LM RKM

I did try running the remote code viewer thing and when it was active it seemed to block sending the codes to Windows, but without it running it tries to launch eshell.exe for every green button press.

This doesn't make sense. Are you saying that when having on the screen the LM RKM Live Trace Viewer, pressing the green button was not launching WMC (or ehshell.exe), but when the trace viewer was closed, pressing the green button was launching WMC or ehshell?

I'll get back to you on this and verify by myself that the "exclusive use..." option in LM RKM does work as intended with a MCE remote on Windows 7.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Skirge01]

Regarding the resolution issue, I ran into a very similar (perhaps the exact) problem and found that an upgrade to a videocard with HDMI resolved it. I was using the same conversion method (DVI -> HDMI), but the simple removal of that converter resolved the issue for me.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

LM RKM doesn't "block" codes from the remote, it essentially remap them, so it is perfectly normal that it let them flow unless you customize LM RKM

Understood. I had LM RKM set to do nothing when the green button was pressed.

Originally Posted by StephaneM

This doesn't make sense. Are you saying that when having on the screen the LM RKM Live Trace Viewer, pressing the green button was not launching WMC (or ehshell.exe), but when the trace viewer was closed, pressing the green button was launching WMC or ehshell?

Exactly I tried this multiple times and it persisted across reboots.

The good news is that I did a clean install of V7 to provide logs of the video behavior to the devs and after doing a clean install of V7 the remote has been working flawlessly. I also wiped the HDPVR drivers (I was using the 1.5.6.2 Betas) and reverted to the 1.5.6.1 WHQLs to attempt to fix some lockups so it might be possible that the HDPVR drivers were causing an issue. I don't have anything to support that of course, but the HDPVR makes a pretty good scape goat with all of it's driver issues

So the remote issue is closed and the devs are hopefully looking into the resolution issue for V7.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Regarding the resolution issue, I ran into a very similar (perhaps the exact) problem and found that an upgrade to a videocard with HDMI resolved it. I was using the same conversion method (DVI -> HDMI), but the simple removal of that converter resolved the issue for me.

I don't doubt your result, but I would be inclined to believe it was due to a difference in the way the new video card (or dirver) handled the HDCP EDID/handshake or notification to the OS that the display device had been removed. DVI -> HDMI requires no signal conversion. It's just a cable wired one way on the DVI end and another on the DMI end. You can run into bandwidth issues going from an HDMI source to a DVI display due to encoding issues, but the physical interface is still the same.

Besides I really don't feel like putting a new video card in the system The 9600 does a good enough job and cracking the case on my HTPC is a royal PITA!

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

I don't doubt your result, but I would be inclined to believe it was due to a difference in the way the new video card (or dirver) handled the HDCP EDID/handshake or notification to the OS that the display device had been removed. DVI -> HDMI requires no signal conversion. It's just a cable wired one way on the DVI end and another on the DMI end. You can run into bandwidth issues going from an HDMI source to a DVI display due to encoding issues, but the physical interface is still the same.

Can't argue that it could just be coincidence, but I couldn't have made the change more similar. I went from this to this. Same GPU and same company. Like I said, it solved my issue, so I'm happy.

Besides I really don't feel like putting a new video card in the system The 9600 does a good enough job and cracking the case on my HTPC is a royal PITA!

I certainly understand that.

[ma11ie]

Posting of the issue on the official Microsoft site. No patch but a couple workarounds are mentioned:

http://social.answers.microsoft.com/...3-1ea8a1c27be7

The VNC solution appears to have worked in my case:

http://lemon.soju.co.uk/2009/12/03/w...nitor-problem/

Basically I unplugged the HDMI cable, logged in via VNC and changed the resolution from 1024x768 to the TV resolution of 1360x768. Now when the TV is no longer detected, the display defaults to 1360x768.

[Spectrum]

Sage devs have taken care of this as of 7.0.12. The Sage UI now responds to resolution changes as intended.

I wasn't having problems with any other windows resizing than Sage so I'm content that 7.0.12 is out and Qian fixed the broken digital tuners