Setup Menus Organization

[tchapin]

I was hoping that in V7 that the Setup Menus would be more changed. I see a few things:
1. I often have a hard time remembering where to find various options, since the category names don't seem well chosen.
2. There's no clear demarcation between when an option will change just the interface (client / placeshifter / extender) that you're viewing from, or make a change on the server.
3. The way that setting the options works is inconsistent.

This first section lists out the current layout of the menus. There may be a few inaccuracies in that while I have been trying out V7 on a test box, I don't have access to it right now while I am writing up this post. So these are based off of V6, which from my use of V7 is a close match in this regard.

From the main menu, there are several choices:

1. Run Configuration Wizard - a 1st time setup task or when adding a new tuner
2. Detailed Setup - many configuration options
3. Setup Video Sources - when adding a new tuner
4. Help
5. Parental Controls
6. Refresh Imported Media

From this list, what are the most likely things to choose on a daily basis? I suspect that it's "detailed setup". I think it would be reasonable to reorganize all of the items under "detailed setup" and present them at this level in the menu.

Once you choose "detailed setup", you have the following option. None of them really speak to me and tell me what sorts of things I will find inside. I will discuss each submenu below.

1. General
2. Multimedia
3. Commands
4. Server
5. Advanced
6. Customize
7. Setup Menu - Is this needed since there is a dedicated "back" key and if you're using a remote you most likely have "left as back" enabled?

The "general" submenu contains:

1. Video Recording Directories
2. Media Center Import Directories
3. Automatic Library Rescan Frequency
4. Intelligent Recording
5. Autodial if needed for internet
6. Sync System Clock w/ Sage TV Server
7. Animation Options
8. Screen Saver Options
9. Show Mouse Icons

The "multimedia" submenu contains:

1. Aspect Ratio Mode
2. Aspect Ratio Settings
3. Overscan Settings
4. Disaplay Aspect Ratio Settings
5. Recording Quality
6. Video Menu Options
7. UI Language

The "commands" submenu contains:

1. Link infrared / keystroke to SageTV Command
2. Show SageTV Commands linked to infrared
3. Unlink Infrarent / keystroke

The "server" submenu contains:

1. Manage Placeshifter Users
2. Placeshifter Locator ID
3. Allow Placeshifter clients to login automatically
4. Media Extender Conversion Quality

The "advanced" submenu contains:

1. Optimized Image Loader
2. Rescan Existing Library Files
3. Check STV for Updates
4. Reload last custom STV
5. Manage STVI Plugins
6. SageTV Application Package
7. Select User Interface Theme
8. Debug Logging

The "customize" submenu contains:

1. FFW RWD Times
2. Inactivity Timeout and OSD Autohide
3. Automatically Enable Channels Newly Added to EPG Lineups
4. Power Management settings
5. Numeric Text Input Settings
6. Online Video Optikons
7. Mouse Auto repeat rate
8. Instant search mode navigation menus
9. Maximum Results per search
10. Focus Follows mouse movement
11. Delete LiveTV Files when not using IR
12. Include Episode Names in filenames
13. Remove padding on back to back favs on same channel
14. Reser watched shows when played again
15. Always start video playlist items from the beginning
16. Detect Repaet airings w/ non-unique IDs
17. Enforce recording quality in schedule
18. Enable MPEG4 timeshifting (requires hardware)
19. Always tune channel
20. Channel Entry Options
21. DirectTV Serial channel changing mode
22. Show recording status marker icons in lists
23. Ask to delete recording at end of playback
24. Use expanded options for the record command
25. Options menu mode for videos and recordings
26. Use options menu after selecting a group of videos
27. alternate movie category name
28. display a pop up when a new drive detected
29. minimum font size
30. display osd between playlist segments
31. reset disabled warnings

So, given all that, here is how I would reorganize the submenus and options. I have not really thought about how to reorganize the options in each of the menus. However, I think that options about similar items should be grouped together (like the mouse related ones I put in the "interface" submenu and that generally, the lists should be presented in alphabetical order.

****************************
TV Recording
****************************

1. Setup Video Sources - when adding a new tuner
2. Video Recording Directories
3. Intelligent Recording
4. Recording Quality
5. Automatically Enable Channels Newly Added to EPG Lineups
6. Enforce recording quality in schedule
7. Enable MPEG4 timeshifting (requires hardware)
8. Always tune channel
9. Channel Entry Options
10. DirectTV Serial channel changing mode
11. Use expanded options for the record command
12. Detect Repaet airings w/ non-unique IDs
13. Delete LiveTV Files when not using IR
14. Include Episode Names in filenames
15. Remove padding on back to back favs on same channel

*****************************
TV & Video Playback
*****************************

1. Video Menu Options
2. Aspect Ratio Mode
3. Aspect Ratio Settings
4. Disaplay Aspect Ratio Settings
5. FFW RWD Times
6. Inactivity Timeout and OSD Autohide
7. Reser watched shows when played again
8. Always start video playlist items from the beginning
9. Ask to delete recording at end of playback
10. Online Video Options

*****************************
Imported Media
*****************************

1. Media Center Import Directories
2. Automatic Library Rescan Frequency
3. Refresh Imported Media Now
4. Rescan Existing Library Files (I think this is the same as the one right above)

*****************************
Interface
*****************************

1. UI Language
2. Overscan Settings
3. Check STV for Updates
4. Reload last custom STV
5. Manage STVI Plugins
6. SageTV Application Package
7. Select User Interface Theme
8. Animation Options
9. Screen Saver Options
10. Numeric Text Input Settings
11. Show Mouse Icons
12. Mouse Auto repeat rate
13. Focus Follows mouse movement
14. Options menu mode for videos and recordings
15. Use options menu after selecting a group of videos
16. display osd between playlist segments
17. minimum font size
18. alternate movie category name
19. Instant search mode navigation menus
20. Maximum Results per search
21. Show recording status marker icons in lists

*****************************
General SageTV
*****************************

1. Autodial if needed for internet
2. Sync System Clock w/ Sage TV Server
3. Power Management settings
4. Debug Logging
5. display a pop up when a new drive detected
6. reset disabled warnings
7. Optimized Image Loader
8. Link infrared / keystroke to SageTV Command
9. Show SageTV Commands linked to infrared
10. Unlink Infrarent / keystroke
11. Parental Controls
12. Run Configuration Wizard - a 1st time setup task or when adding a new tuner

******************************
Placeshifter
******************************

1. Manage Placeshifter Users
2. Placeshifter Locator ID
3. Allow Placeshifter clients to login automatically
4. Media Extender Conversion Quality

******************************
Help
******************************




For 2. Can't tell which options effect the server / all attached displays, I suggest that if a change is made to a setting that will effect all displays, pop up a dialog asking if the user wants to make the change only for the display they are watching or for all displays. Obviously, for things that change settings behind the scenes, like "max results for search", this behavior would not be appropriate.

For 3. There are some items which pop a dialog and some that don't. I can't find them at the moment, but I believe that I have seen some that pop a dialog even if there are only two choices for the option.

What do you think?

[Skirge01]

Wow, you definitely put a lot of thought into this. I've thought the same thing about the structure. In fact, I don't know that I've memorized where anything actually is, but I just keep clicking until it looks like the menu which contains the setting I'm looking for. (Did I just say that?)

I haven't given too much though to your concept, but, overall, I think it's a very good start and I like the menus you've come up with. One thing that I specifically looked for was where you put the infrared/command menus. I think it's more logical to have them in "interface", not "general". How you control/access the interface itself would seem to be a part of the setup of that very interface. Said differently, if mouse controls are under "interface", then why wouldn't remote controls be there?

But, none of this matters if SageTV doesn't agree that it's time for a revamp.

EDIT: I thought about this a little bit more (God only knows why) and I don't like the alphabetizing idea. Why? Because this means that the very first word needs to always be the one people are going to look for. Let's take "Run Configuration Wizard", as an example. If I were to look for that, would I think to myself, "Self, you want to RUN the configuration wizard" or would I think, "Self, where's that CONFIGURATION wizard?" There's a chance I'd even say, "Self, where's that WIZARD for configuration?" but I think that's somewhat unlikely.

Now, what I think would be really cool (and I could very well be alone here) would be if the menus options (not Interface, Imported Media, etc., but the submenus inside each of them) moved their position in the list. The list could put the last changed items at the top or the most frequently changed items at the top. This sounds like a lot of work, though, and I think that their (SageTV's) time would be better spent on other things.

[tchapin]

Hey Skirge,

That's a great point about the IR /keyboard commands. I agree.

Perhaps I'll file a ticket w/ Sage asking them to evaluate reorganizing the setup menus. At least that way I know they'd read the thread.

Also, I would hope that this sort of information would be useful to alternative STV creators. While they probably will not recreate the Sage settings as-is (like SageMC moved from doing that to just providing a link), I'm sure that each STV will have a new set of settings to deal with.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by tchapin

Hey Skirge,

That's a great point about the IR /keyboard commands. I agree.

Perhaps I'll file a ticket w/ Sage asking them to evaluate reorganizing the setup menus. At least that way I know they'd read the thread.

Also, I would hope that this sort of information would be useful to alternative STV creators. While they probably will not recreate the Sage settings as-is (like SageMC moved from doing that to just providing a link), I'm sure that each STV will have a new set of settings to deal with.

Yeah, an email never hurts. The more people who contact them, the more likely they'll look into it. I also edited (added to) my previous post after a little more thought. I'm pretty sure Mike started providing a link to the settings because various new releases kept breaking the SageMC settings menu.

[SDeGonge]

I like your layout. Also, I think it would be nice to see a seperate top menu item for PlugIn configuration so they're not appended to the end of the Customize menu.

[jdamore]

I actually like the way the layout is now but I think whats confusing (for lack of a better word) is ADVANCED and CUSTOMIZE. I'm always searching the 2 looking for the setting I want to change..

For example: changing a Theme seems more like a CUSTOMIZE than an ADVANCED.

Maybe ADVANCED would make a better sub menu for CUSTOMIZE..

[tchapin]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

EDIT: I thought about this a little bit more (God only knows why) and I don't like the alphabetizing idea. Why? Because this means that the very first word needs to always be the one people are going to look for. Let's take "Run Configuration Wizard", as an example. If I were to look for that, would I think to myself, "Self, you want to RUN the configuration wizard" or would I think, "Self, where's that CONFIGURATION wizard?" There's a chance I'd even say, "Self, where's that WIZARD for configuration?" but I think that's somewhat unlikely.

That's quite a reasonable criticism. Perhaps some subheadings to break up the items would work. I think that if the item names were chosen well, it would make sense to alphabetize them. I guess you could work up some kind of "expected priority" and rank them according to that.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Now, what I think would be really cool (and I could very well be alone here) would be if the menus options (not Interface, Imported Media, etc., but the submenus inside each of them) moved their position in the list. The list could put the last changed items at the top or the most frequently changed items at the top. This sounds like a lot of work, though, and I think that their (SageTV's) time would be better spent on other things.

I don't like that idea. There's a lot of research that shows that moving things around on people makes it harder for them to learn things b/c they never know where to expect to find things.

SDeGonge; good point about the plugins.

BTW, I mentioned this thread to Sage and got a response that they'll take a look at the thread. So that's cool!

[tchapin]

Ok. So I'm at my computer where I have the SageTV demo installed. I've attached a screen shot of the main menu w/ the top level setup menu.

Based on that, my thoughts still stand.

[bela41]

tchapin,

I agree that the menus need to be reconfigured and fully support bringing this to SageTV's attention. I too find myself just clicking through each menu until I find what I need because I can never remember where anything is at and the headings aren't much help.

Just wanted to voice my support.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by bela41

tchapin,

I agree that the menus need to be reconfigured and fully support bringing this to SageTV's attention. I too find myself just clicking through each menu until I find what I need because I can never remember where anything is at and the headings aren't much help.

Just wanted to voice my support.

Well, that makes 5 people. I'm sure the SageTV folks will be all over this now.