HD200 freezes during live TV

[mindcue]

Just chiming in with some really simple things to try...

Background:
I recently switched to HD from strictly SD system running fine for years.
DirecTV HD tuners (2), HD-PVRs (2), and the same old server machine I've been using for quite a while (3000+ AMD64, now with over 4TB of disk space).

When I first got things set up with just one HD receiver and 2 SD receivers, and a single HD200 media center, I'd get frequent errors (actual error messages) on screen while watching live tv. They would happen without me touching anything. No pauses, reverses, etc.. Just an error pop-up.

Now I realize it's not the same setup, and it may be unrelated, but what the heck.

I tried a million things from the HD-PVR threads, and (almost) nothing really worked.

However I cobbled together a handfull of changes which has thus far allowed me to use 2 hd tuners, and a sd tuner on this old box without a single error in the past 2 weeks or so. I now have two HD media centers as well.

These were the changes I made. I don't know which helped the most but the only-when-watching-live issue is similar to yours, so here goes:
1) I downgraded the HD-PVR firmware on both boxes to a much older supposedly more stable one. I know this doesn't affect you.
2) I reduced the program lookahead to 3 days vs a 7 day setting I'd changed it to at one point.
3) I trimmed my favorites down to a more manageable 70 or so programs (from double that). Also reduced the number of non-specific "keyword" style favorites.
4) Upped the Java Heap setting in the properties file.

My recollection is that nothing else was changed. Sorry for the vagueness of the info above, I am literally couch-surfing, and not in front of the server for details.

-Tim

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by mindcue

Just chiming in with some really simple things to try...

Background:
I recently switched to HD from strictly SD system running fine for years.
DirecTV HD tuners (2), HD-PVRs (2), and the same old server machine I've been using for quite a while (3000+ AMD64, now with over 4TB of disk space).

When I first got things set up with just one HD receiver and 2 SD receivers, and a single HD200 media center, I'd get frequent errors (actual error messages) on screen while watching live tv. They would happen without me touching anything. No pauses, reverses, etc.. Just an error pop-up.

Now I realize it's not the same setup, and it may be unrelated, but what the heck.

I tried a million things from the HD-PVR threads, and (almost) nothing really worked.

However I cobbled together a handfull of changes which has thus far allowed me to use 2 hd tuners, and a sd tuner on this old box without a single error in the past 2 weeks or so. I now have two HD media centers as well.

These were the changes I made. I don't know which helped the most but the only-when-watching-live issue is similar to yours, so here goes:
1) I downgraded the HD-PVR firmware on both boxes to a much older supposedly more stable one. I know this doesn't affect you.
2) I reduced the program lookahead to 3 days vs a 7 day setting I'd changed it to at one point.
3) I trimmed my favorites down to a more manageable 70 or so programs (from double that). Also reduced the number of non-specific "keyword" style favorites.
4) Upped the Java Heap setting in the properties file.

My recollection is that nothing else was changed. Sorry for the vagueness of the info above, I am literally couch-surfing, and not in front of the server for details.

-Tim

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the post!

Unfortunately I don't think any of the things you mention apply to me. I haven't changed the epg look ahead from the default and I haven't defined any favorites yet.

It is interesting though that you have a so much more complicated set up than I have and have been able to get it to work.

I'm going to have to put my troubleshooting efforts on hold until this weekend. The testing I need to do at this point requires sitting in front of the TV or PC continually for at least an hour to watch for the freezes and I just don't have time for that during the week.

I am going to try one quick thing tonight. Previously I connected a 50' cat 5e cable from the HD200 directly to my router to bypass a switch and the cables running through the walls. It just occurred to me this morning that I can also bypass the router in order to eliminate it as a suspect.

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by mschauer

I am going to try one quick thing tonight. Previously I connected a 50' cat 5e cable from the HD200 directly to my router to bypass a switch and the cables running through the walls. It just occurred to me this morning that I can also bypass the router in order to eliminate it as a suspect.

Don't forget - you'll need a switch (static IP), crossover cable (static IP) or router (dynamic IP) to connect the HD200 to your HP.

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

Don't forget - you'll need a switch (static IP), crossover cable (static IP) or router (dynamic IP) to connect the HD200 to your HP.

Oh right. I forgot my router is my DHCP server. And I didn't know about the crossover thing. I know that's needed with direct serial communications but didn't know it was needed with direct ethernet connections. That makes it not quite as easy a test as I thought.

Thanks! You probably saved me a lot of time!

[mindcue]

Originally Posted by mschauer

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the post!

Unfortunately I don't think any of the things you mention apply to me. I haven't changed the epg look ahead from the default and I haven't defined any favorites yet.

It is interesting though that you have a so much more complicated set up than I have and have been able to get it to work.

I'm going to have to put my troubleshooting efforts on hold until this weekend. The testing I need to do at this point requires sitting in front of the TV or PC continually for at least an hour to watch for the freezes and I just don't have time for that during the week.

I am going to try one quick thing tonight. Previously I connected a 50' cat 5e cable from the HD200 directly to my router to bypass a switch and the cables running through the walls. It just occurred to me this morning that I can also bypass the router in order to eliminate it as a suspect.

I understand the frustration. I had similar startup issues, but man, once it's dialed in, well worth it!

Per other person's post: I had identical issues when trying to use a WD eSATA drive as storage. Would freeze up for a while, then be ok. Ripped open the case, pulled the drive out, and put it in the system case directly, and it's been solid. Suspect something with the WD external eSATA interface..

As for other things to try... My system was *very* sensitive to the motherboard slots my two Hauppauge cards were originally in (one was the dual, one was the single video inputs). Trying different slot combinations might produce "magical" results. Had something to do with the shared Irq defaults of various slots (could have been sharing w/disk controller?). Usually there's a bios setting to force alternate irqs as well. This was years ago, so I don't remember the symptoms, but it's a relatively easy thing to try. Even though only one SD recording channel is still (temporarily) being used, both cards are still installed in my system.

Is the CPU (one or both) pegged at or near 100% during the pause? That could be a clue...

Look forward to hearing of you progress and ultimate success!
-Tim

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by mindcue

I understand the frustration. I had similar startup issues, but man, once it's dialed in, well worth it!

Yeah I wouldn't be expending this much time and effort if I didn't think it would be worth it in the end.

As for other things to try... My system was *very* sensitive to the motherboard slots my two Hauppauge cards were originally in (one was the dual, one was the single video inputs). Trying different slot combinations might produce "magical" results.

My tuner card is PCI Express and I only have one such slot. I do have access to an HD Homerun (network based) tuner I'm considering trying. Since there is never a problem with recorded programs though the tuner doesn't seem to be a likely source of the problem.

Is the CPU (one or both) pegged at or near 100% during the pause? That could be a clue...

Nope. I've tried monitoring CPU, disk and network usage when one of these freezes happens and haven't seen anything. There might still be some process popping up momentarily and isn't being caught by the monitors though. I'm doing what I can to determine if that might be happening.

Look forward to hearing of you progress and ultimate success!
-Tim

Thanks for the suggestions!

[Grant.Edwards]

Originally Posted by mschauer

Oh right. I forgot my router is my DHCP server. And I didn't know
about the crossover thing. I know that's needed with direct serial
communications but didn't know it was needed with direct ethernet
connections.

It probably isn't unless you're using some seriously old hardware.

Anything designed within the last 10 years or so will have an auto
MDI/MDIX PHY that will work with either a straight cable or a
crossover cable. [Even if only one of the two devices is auto
MDI/MDIX, you can still use either a straight or crossover Ethernet
cable.]

[mindcue]

Sigh. Is Could always blame Vista! I'm running XP

On the PCI Express card, is there any settings in the bios to change anything having to do with that slot? I'm probably too old school to even know what to try there.

Another random thought... Is disk indexing turned on for that drive in Windows?

Have you tried other SATA ports? I've seen odd things with them from time to time (not sage related, but still...). Moving to a port on a different motherboard controller...

You might also experiment with background vs foreground service priority --assuming you are running Sage as a service.

Hopefully you'll find a clue and we'll all be celebrating with you. Keep us posted.
-Tim

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by Grant.Edwards

It probably isn't unless you're using some seriously old hardware.

Anything designed within the last 10 years or so will have an auto
MDI/MDIX PHY that will work with either a straight cable or a
crossover cable. [Even if only one of the two devices is auto
MDI/MDIX, you can still use either a straight or crossover Ethernet
cable.]

I think you may have missed that I will be going adapter to adapter with no device in between. I think I'll need to either use a crossover cable or else leave the switch in between. Right? I'll try it both ways just for kicks. I've already eliminated the switch as a source of the problem so it won't hurt the test to use it.

[Grant.Edwards]

Originally Posted by mschauer

I think you may have missed that I will be going adapter to adapter
with no device in between.

No, I didn't miss that. Your adapter is a device. If it's been designed
within the last 10 years, it probably has a PHY that does auto MDI/MDIX.

I think I'll need to either use a crossover cable or else leave the
switch in between. Right?

I doubt it, unless both of the adapters are quite old.

I'll try it both ways just for kicks. I've already eliminated the
switch as a source of the problem so it won't hurt the test to use
it.

Let us know how it goes.

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by Grant.Edwards

No, I didn't miss that. Your adapter is a device. If it's been designed
within the last 10 years, it probably has a PHY that does auto MDI/MDIX.

I doubt it, unless both of the adapters are quite old.

Let us know how it goes.

OK. Thanks!

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by mschauer

I've already eliminated the switch as a source of the problem so it won't hurt the test to use it.

You havn't really eleminated the switch as a potential problem until you get consistent proper playback with the switch in the mix.

Is the switch GigaBit? If it's 10/100 (even if it's working IMO) you are constantly sitting of the precipice of network failure. I've been there and fallen over the edge.

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

You havn't really eleminated the switch as a potential problem until you get consistent proper playback with the switch in the mix.

Is the switch GigaBit? If it's 10/100 (even if it's working IMO) you are constantly sitting of the precipice of network failure. I've been there and fallen over the edge.

It's gigabit.

[mschauer]

The HD200 was overheating.

I had noticed that it gets pretty warm but didn't think too much of it because I have other devices that get just about as warm. I had also noticed that sometimes when I was ready to watch tv I would find the HD200 powered off. I thought it was probably because it had some kind of auto shut down after some amount of idle time although I would also sometimes find it still powered up after a long idle time. (I actually don't intend to always leave it powered on when not in use but for the time being, and for inconsequential reasons, I am.)

Well, Tues night I was watching live tv and after experiencing a few of the infamous brief freezes, the HD200 just suddenly powered off. I only know of two reasons why a device will suddenly power off while in use. Because of an unrecoverable hard failure or because of overheating. Since the HD200 would work again once powered meant it wasn't a hard failure.

I had it inside a closed cabinet with my other A/V components so I took it out and put it on top of the cabinet. There were still a couple of brief freezes soon after taking it out of the cabinet but it may have still been too warm from being inside. But, just in case, I immediately went out and bought a small fan and now have that on it at all times. I haven't experienced any freezes or hangs since.

Yeah!

That the freezes only happened when viewing live tv and never when viewing a recorded program may have been a bit of a red herring. Maybe the processing of a live tv stream is sufficiently different to explain the different behavior. Maybe the duty cycle of an affected HD200 component is longer or more frequent with a live tv stream? Only Sage can answer that one.