Two identical tuners and one program guide.

[avogodro]

Okay I have searched the internet and the forum and the user manual. I am not sure I understand fully the process of setting up two tuner cards. I guess my first and main question is:
Is SageTV capable of recording a show while watching another in the same
program guide with two tuners?

If not the rest is pointless...

What I have:
2 hauppague 950q usb tuners.

What I want to do:
Have both tuners assigned to the same program guide so that I can record one show and watch another.

So I want one comcast cable line in then a splitter to both tuner cards that are connected to my pc. Then (and this is where I get lost) setup both in SageTV for control on one program guide.

Is there any decent guides that someone can point me to on here to help me explain the setup of two tuners? Both priciples and limitations of this setup.

Do I need to specify a specific range of channels for one tuner and then another specific range for the other tuner? If so does that mean that certain channels will be unavailable for watching if I am recording on the other tuner?

I have recently purchased the HDhomerun and havent received it in the mail yet, BUT will I have the same problem?


Thanks for any assistance or guidance anyone can offer me.
Avogodro.

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by avogodro

Okay I have searched the internet and the forum and the user manual. I am not sure I understand fully the process of setting up two tuner cards. I guess my first and main question is:
Is SageTV capable of recording a show while watching another in the same
program guide with two tuners?

Thanks for any assistance or guidance anyone can offer me.
Avogodro.

It merges ALL EPG into one. If they have the same shows, and are the same tuner, why have 2 listings? If you have 2 turners, and they have different programming, again, why have 2 guides? In SageTV, you record a SHOW, not a channel/time. This is what makes it soooooooooooo much better than most PVRs.

Yes, you can record 1, and watch one, or record 2. You can even play back as many as you want, once they are recorded. I think the current record is about 14 tuners, any or all that can be used at once!

BTW, the HDHomerun is QAM/ATSC only, so the channels will be different, but still all in one guide.

[fac13]

Do a scan on one tuner, then select the "Use an existing channel lineup with this source" option when you setup the other one. If you do that you avoid each channel appearing twice in the program guide, which is definitely what you want.

[planetc]

follow the advice given above, then just choose what you want to record or watch you want to watch now from the guide, sage will manage the tuners for you automatically and decide which to use according to availaility.

In the event that you have one or more channels that are only available on one tuner I believe it is best to set a tuner priority to make that tuner get chosen last, thereby keeping it free from being used for channels available on other tuners unless there is no alternative. This ultimately means that if you are recording a channel that is only available from one source then you will be unable to watch another channel from this source.

Once you have been running for a while you will likely find that you rarely watch 'live tv' as the things you like to watch will be recorded and available to watch while the tuners are doing other things.

[graywolf]

Just for clarification and for others to help better (I don't have cable).

Are you using a Comcast box for tuning the channels or are you just working with the Clear channels that don't need a box?

If you are using a box. Are you splitting the cable before/after the box and trying to use 1 tuner for the channels that the box tunes and the other for just the channels in the clear? If that is the case then you may wish to have different lineups for the tuners. But it would still show up as 1 Grid/Guide

[sic0048]

Also, just keep in mind that technically SageTV records everything. If it is "Live TV" then you can set it to delete the recording automatically when you stop watching that show. Sage does this so you can pause "live" TV.

I say this because if you are watching a show "Live" and you pull up the guide, it will show Sage as "Recording" that show. This is technically correct, but it won't save the file of the recording unless you have set it up to do so.

[avogodro]

Good point graywolf. I am indeed using a cable box with usb-uirt to tune the appropriate channel. I see now that this setup would not work with the two tuners attached at the line out from the box.

planetc you are right I rarely watch 'live TV' anymore but all too often I want to record two shows that are on at the same time. Which is the only reason I am wanting to setup two tuners.

So lets say arbitrarily that I have channels 1-20 available. 1-10 are in the clear and 11-20 are digital and require the box with usb-uirt to tune the channel.

Could I use one tuner that was set to recieve 1-20 and the other for 1-10 so as I could watch and record two channels on the 1-10 section of channels in the clear?

I am wanting to watch one channel and record another. The majority of what I watch is in the 1-10 section of channels... Maybe What I need is another tuner to allow me to watch record channels 1-10. So two tuners for 1-10 and one tuner for 11-21 section just for digital content.... Maybe I can use the HDhomerun for the channels in the clear then I would have 3 tuners available for 1-10 content and one for digital content.... Is any of this making logical sense....

Thanks flac13 I am at work right now and I am trying to theorize how to get both tuners recognized as individual units. When I go to setup video source it only shows one of the hauppague 950q tuners. Should it show both of them as separate tuners there?

There is still no way to get the encrypted digital channels from comcast in a tuner only is there?

Thanks for everyones assistance you are helping me a lot.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by avogodro

Could I use one tuner that was set to recieve 1-20 and the other for 1-10 so as I could watch and record two channels on the 1-10 section of channels in the clear?

.

Simple answer: YES

You just tell Sage what channels are available on each tuner and tell it what shows you want to record, and Sage will create a schedule based on what you want and what tuners is available. It will even determine that if, for example, you have a two hour long show you want to record on channel 9 from 7-9pm, but at 8PM a show comes on channel 12 you also want to record, Sage will make sure to record the show on channel 9 with your tuner that only captures 1-10, leaving the tuner that does 1-20 free to record channel 12 at 8PM.

Edit: Live tv does make things a little more difficult as Sage can't "guess" that you will be watching live television at any given time. However, with that said, Sage will do its best to change your recording schedule if it can (maybe recording a later run of the show) or it will give you a pop stating that it needs to change the channel in order to record something you want.

[graywolf]

Yes. That would work with the split prior to the box for the Clear channels.

Another option would be to have 2 boxes, 1 box per tuner.

Then set-up Zones for the USB-UIRT so seperate zones for the seperate boxes. (several threads on this)

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by graywolf

Are you using a Comcast box for tuning the channels or are you just working with the Clear channels that don't need a box?

Yes, both.

Originally Posted by graywolf

If you are using a box. Are you splitting the cable before/after the box and trying to use 1 tuner for the channels that the box tunes and the other for just the channels in the clear? If that is the case then you may wish to have different lineups for the tuners. But it would still show up as 1 Grid/Guide

My cable feed from outside goes to a GOOD amp, like this one:
http://www.cabletvamps.com/Products/EDA-FT08300.htm
and then the outputs to all my tuners and internet box.

[blade]

IMO your over thinking things and making it more difficult in your mind than it actually is. Just connect your tuners and enable the channels they can receive and for the most part your done.

For example I have 4 QAM tuners and 2 analog tuners all connected to coax from the cable company.

My analog tuners receive channels 2-59 and all are enabled. My QAM tuners receive various channels from 2-450 (I only get 38 channels with them so no one get too excited about the number of clear QAM I receive). All of the channels I receive via QAM can be enabled.

As mentioned above Sage provides 1 consolidated guide with all of the channels available. Some are only available to the analog tuners, some the digital, and some are available on both. None of this matters because I just select the show I want to record or watch and Sage takes care of the rest.

I'd suggest just setting up the tuners with all of the available channels and using it for a little while so that you'll gain a better understanding of how things work. It's really pretty simple.

Once you do that you may want to do a little tweaking. For example I always prefer my HDHomeRuns over the analog tuners so I have the encoder merit set so the HDHomeRuns will always be used if possible.

I also always prefer Sage to use the HD channels over the SD. This is what Sage normally does; however, if the guide doesn't have a show marked as HD and there is a SD and HD channel available on the same tuner in my experience Sage will always choose the lowest channel number. The lower numbers are normally the SD versions. So for QAM channels that I have in both SD and HD I have the SD versions disabled.

With the above mentioned changes Sage will always try to record shows with the QAM tuner first. If the show isn't available on the digital tuners or all of the tuners are occupied it falls back the analog tuners.

[blade]

A couple of questions. You say you're using a cable box and USB-UIRT with a Hauppague 950q. How are you capturing the signal? It sounds like you're using the analog tuner to capture it from the coax coming out of your cable box? I'm not familiar with that particular tuner. I see it says it can do analog and digital. Can it capture both at the same time or just 1 of the two at any given time?

[avogodro]

First big thanks for the help thus far.

Blade .. What I did was use the 950q usb tuner connected to the output from the cable on my comcast set top box. I use a usb IR receiver to capture the signal from my MCE remote. The computer then sends the signal to my USB-UIRT. It works really well. The signal from comcast is analog and digital encrypted on the QAM channels. The tuner doesn't tune the

Okay what I have done is splitter at the coaxial cable input. One out to the cable box and one to the other usb 950q to capture analog signal. Then the out from the cable box to the other 950q usb tuner. Now when I go to setup the devices in SageTV the analog signal isnt being picked up. It says waiting for signal and never actually shows the video. I have restarted the computer and retried to get signal. Does sage tv know to look for the analog signal from just the one tuner over the other?

I should get the HDhomerun today... Then I hope it plays nice with my SageTV setup.

Can I do the HDhomerun over wifi?

Thanks again.

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by avogodro

Okay what I have done is splitter at the coaxial cable input. One out to the cable box and one to the other usb 950q to capture analog signal. Then the out from the cable box to the other 950q usb tuner. Now when I go to setup the devices in SageTV the analog signal isnt being picked up. It says waiting for signal and never actually shows the video. I have restarted the computer and retried to get signal. Does sage tv know to look for the analog signal from just the one tuner over the other?

Ah, I see, said the blind man. The 950q that is hooked to the cable box, needs to be set differently than the one getting analog channels. The one hooked to the box, when you are setting it up, tell it to get everything from channel 3 (or 4), and then use the USB IR changer to change the channel. (the "tuner" is always on 3, and the USB IR changes the "BOX's" channel, which output is always on channel 3)

Originally Posted by avogodro

I should get the HDhomerun today... Then I hope it plays nice with my SageTV setup.

Can I do the HDhomerun over wifi?

Just follow the instructions CAREFULLY, step by step! Also, anything other than local channels, assume the cable company will remove at any time.

On Wifi, only use if you have to. It was never designed to stream. It will recover from errors and drops, but if you are streaming with no buffer, it's a pause!

[avogodro]

MattHelm I have actually had the tuner capturing the video from the set top box connected first. I figured I would do what I thought was the hardest of the two first. Looks like getting the analog signal may be harder.

pretty straight forward setup right? see attachment.

When I tried to get the one for analog signal working last night it just said waiting for signal for about 5 minutes then I stopped it because it was late and i was tired. I will try again tonight. I am guessing that SageTV will just look for the composite video source from the one analog tuner.... I dont think that comcast has gone completely digital in my area... but I may be wrong.

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by avogodro

pretty straight forward setup right? see attachment.

When I tried to get the one for analog signal working last night it just said waiting for signal for about 5 minutes then I stopped it because it was late and i was tired. I will try again tonight. I am guessing that SageTV will just look for the composite video source from the one analog tuner.... I dont think that comcast has gone completely digital in my area... but I may be wrong.

Setup looks right. Should be 100% automatic at this point. Wonder why you are getting nothing on the analog feed? What version of software are you using? 6.x or 7.X? And you are sure you are selecting the correct tunner? Not the box/USB IR one, correct?

Comcast is not 100% digital anywhere that I know of. They seem to leaving the "must carry" channels in the clear. Depending on city size, that's between 15 (where my dad lives) and 30 (here in the greater Chicago area) channels. Oh, and most place are still switching, so for 1 more month, both mine and dad's are about 60-70 analog channels.

[MattHelm]

BTW, I just looked up the tuner, and you understand that's it's a software tuner? That means that for analog TV, your CPU is encoding the raw video data. That's not the best thing to do. Even on new CPUs, that's a lot of computing power. This only for analog, as digital is already encoded, and all you are doing is tuning, and grabbing the stream.