Complete Network DVR Setup Help

[googlexx]

Hey guys, I'm looking to create a dvr network in my house. This is what I'm trying to do:


Run dvr software from a server computer. I've researched it and it looks to me like sagetv is a good choice. But before I go and buy it I just wanted to ask people who know about it how I would go about this project.

Send different signals to 2 different tv's. One is HD one is not. In different areas of house. They can share the same recordings but I need them to be able to watch different channels. Do I need 2 computers and 2 versions of sage tv? Or can I only use 1 computer?

I have cox cable. In case that matters.


What I need help with is choosing a TV tuner that suites my needs but isn't extremely expensive.
Also how do I go about connecting the tv's to the computer? Can I use the svideo and vga ports on the video card? How does the audio work? Also what kind of remote controls can I use?

I am currently using a HD cable box and a regular cable box. If I get this working do I still need those? And with a tuner will i still receive all of my channels?


If you need other information please let me know and I will help.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Tiki]

You will want 1 PC running the SageTV Media Center Software. There are currently 4 versions of this software depending on which operating system you have (1) Mac (2) Linux (3) Windows Home Server (4) All other versions of Windows (XP, 2000, Vista, 7, 32-bit or 64-bit).

You will want at least 1 capture device connected to that Sage PC. Sage can handle an almost unlimited number of capture devices (limited only by the number of slots and connectors in your PC and your PC's performance).

Here are some of the most popular capture devices:

1. Silicon Dust HDHomerun (HDHR) - this device connects to your PC via Ethernet so you don't have to open your PC or have any extra slots. It has two Coax RF connectors that you can connect to Cable-TV or an antenna. It will record SD or HD in Digital format only (either ATSC or clear-QAM). It can record two shows at once. Shows are captured in their raw digital form so quality will match whatever is being broadcast. It will NOT record encrypted channels. It will not work with a Set Top Box (STB) which means you can't use it with Satellite TV.
2. Hauppauge HVR-2250 - this device can record from two sources at once. It installs in a PCIe slot inside your PC. It supports both analog and digital sources (ATSC or NTSC via antenna, analog cable or Clear QAM cable in HD or SD). It also has composite and S-Video inputs so it can record any channel from a STB (but only in SD). Some versions include an IR Blaster and IR Receiver with Remote. The IR Blaster allows Sage to change the channels on your STB. The IR Receiver and remote allows you to use the remote to control Sage. When recording digital content, the raw stream is captured for maximum quality and minimum space. When recording analog content, it uses hardware encoding to convert the file to an MPEG-2 file and there are various quality settings that you can use. The hardware encoding means that it doesn't put a strain on your PC's CPU.
3. Hauppauge HD-PVR - this device can record from 1 source at a time, but it is designed to work with a STB and record in HD. It connects to your PC via USB2. It connects to your STB via component Video cable. It has a hardware encoder that encodes the video to h.264 format. This format offers better compression than the older MPEG-2 format, but requires a more powerful computer (CPU or Video card) to play back. This device will let you capture any channel that your STB can tune. It is currently the only solution for capturing recordings in HD format from Satellite or from premium cable channels.

There are many other capture devices available, but these seem to be the most popular among forum members and are well-supported by Sage.

You can connect your Sage PC to a Monitor or TV and do all your watching and setup right there if you wish. Be advised that if you plan to watch TV or other recordings directly on this PC, you will want a fairly powerful PC with a fast dual or quad core CPU and a decent video card. It can sometimes be tricky to get all the right drivers and codecs installed to get a high-quality picture with smooth playback.

You can also connect one or more extenders. An extender is a small hardware device that connects to your SageTV PC via Ethernet and connects to a TV. There are a few different models available, but the best and most current one is the HD200 (Sage sells this as the "SageTV HD Theater STPHD200"). It talks to the Sage PC and displays the same Sage interface so you can set-up recordings, view the TV Guide, watch "Live TV", view photos, play music, etc. It has hardware-accelerated decoding of pretty much all the major current DRM-free video formats so it puts very little load on your PC when it is playing video and there are no drivers or codecs to worry about. It is possible to use a WiFi adapter to connect these to your network wirelessly, but for best results, stick with a real ethernet cable.

There are some other options including the Sage Client Software and the Sage Placeshifter Software, but I won't go into them now.

So, to summarize, (1) get a PC with the Sage Media Center Software, (2) install 1 or more capture devices, (3) setup a couple of extenders.

Now from each TV with an extender connected you can schedule recordings, watch TV or other recorded video, view pictures, or listen to music. Each TV will be independent so they can each watch something different. You can even pause a show on one extender and pick-up where you left off on a different one.

One thing to keep in mind with Sage is that you are always playing back a recording (even when you think you are watching "Live TV"). When you start watching a Live show, Sage starts recording it and plays back the recording with a 1 or 2 second delay. This allows you to pause, rewind, and fast-forward the "live" show. It also allows you to hit the "record" button at any time to save the show from the point where you first started watching it. Otherwise, a few minutes after the show ends, Sage automatically deletes it.

So if you want to be able to record 2 or more shows at once or watch 2 or more live tv channels at once, you will need 2 or more tuners.

[googlexx]

alright, let me ask you this. what is the difference between getting one tuner card plus the hd theater. and 2 tuner cards?

[Clift]

2 truner cards allow you to record 2 shows at once. But that's only assuming the tuner card has one tuner. The ones mentioned, the Hd Homerun and the HVR-2250 both have dual tuners so you can record two shows at once, or watch a "live" show while recording another. Or watch a previously recorded show while recording two others. If you had the HVR2250 and the HD Homerun, for example, that number grows to four. The HD PVR is single capture device and not a "tuner" in the strict sense. It captures the HD output of your cable box and re-encodes it. It can only capture one stream at a time. If you went with 2 HD PVRs then you would need two HD cable boxes. And don;t forget, if you go with a ClearQAM tuner then you will be limited which channels you can receive at based on which ones are not encrypted. for encrypted channels only the use of the cable box output to the input of a tuner card (composite, S-video or RF channel 3/4) will work. For encrypted content in HD only the HD PVR will currently work.

The HD Theater allows you to interface with the SageTV server. You can watch recorded TV, "Live" TV, schedule recordings, manage favorites, listen to your music library, watch DVD and Blu-ray rips, downloaded video, configure the SageTV software on the server, etc. In your case you would need two; one for each room. Or you could get away with using another PC as a client, but you have to purchase a SageTV Client license. Personally I would recommend two HD 200 (HD Theater) to make your life a lot easier.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by googlexx

alright, let me ask you this. what is the difference between getting one tuner card plus the hd theater. and 2 tuner cards?

The HD Theater (usually called "HD200" on these forums), is an extender. It is for playback only. It is not a capture device or tuner. By itself it can't record anything.

The HD200 has two modes of operation: Stand-Alone Media Player, or Extender.

In stand-alone mode, it allows you to play back previously recorded content that is stored on any computers on your network (whether or not they have SageTV software installed on them).

In Extender Mode, they "talk" to the SageTV Media Center Software installed on a PC somewhere on your home network. They act as a front-end to the SageTV Media Center and allow you to schedule recordings, watch live tv, or watch previously recorded videos. They themselves don't record anything - they can tell the SageTV Media Center Software to record something, the software picks an available capture device (such as HDHR, HD-PVR, or HVR-2250) and commands it to record something. If necessary, it also commands an IR Blaster to change channels on a Set Top Box.

I hope this helps...

[googlexx]

alright. thanks much I think I understand it now. However my situation has changed a bit. Now all I have is 2 non hd tv's that need to be replicated. Same video and audio. I think this is the setup I will need correct me if i'm wrong.

A software license of SageTV.
A computer to host it on.
A dual tuner to be able to watch one show and record a different show at the same time.
My video card has a s-video output. So I'm guessing I can split the s-video and the audio from the computer and send them to both the tv's?
Also I need someway of 2 remote controls. How would I do this? Can I just buy another remote control and will they reach throughout the house or do I need to get an extender to put in front of each tv?


Also what Is considered encrypted channels? Is there a list I can check out?

[JetreL]

Originally Posted by googlexx

My video card has a s-video output. So I'm guessing I can split the s-video and the audio from the computer and send them to both the tv's?
Also I need someway of 2 remote controls. How would I do this? Can I just buy another remote control and will they reach throughout the house or do I need to get an extender to put in front of each tv?

Yes I guess you could but the picture would probably be pretty ugly.. I think your best bet is to get a HD200 for both TVs. (Honestly if you stick with SageTV you will probably do it anyway in the long run) This allows you to have a TV upgrade path and gives you the full benefit of running SageTV.

When I first got SageTV I was trying to do it on the cheap and not getting those boxes first gave me tons of headaches especially if you want to go to HD.

Originally Posted by googlexx

Also what Is considered encrypted channels? Is there a list I can check out?

I do not know about COX but for my cable provider it is anything above Channels 2-26. If you are wanting to go HD you *will need* to get an HD-PVR from Hauppauge. It's your only option and you will need to think about channel changing which would probably be a USB-UIRT.

[wrems]

Why would you want the exact same video/audio content replicated across 2 separate tv's? Sure you could split that signal... Not sure if that is what you really want... Quality would more than likely not be very good, and you lose all individual control of the system...

What are you current server specs?

The ideal implementation of Sage revolves around making a dedicated server that houses the tuners, hard drives and all of your content, all recordings are captured and stored here. From the server you stream content around the house where ever you need it. This is where the extenders (HD200), and or full blown client PC's come in. So every TV in your house needs an extender or a client. This becomes your front-end to gain access to your content that is stored on your server. You'll also want remote control access for each TV for an easy to use intuitive interaction with Sage. The HD200 includes a remote. You'll need to buy a separate one for any clients you incorporate.

If you use the extenders you gain the benefit of having a simplified setup that just works and a peice of hardware that only consumes around 8 watts and is full HD capable. If you don't use the extender then you need computer clients; they require more tinkering and use substantially more electricity and depending on hardware can be finicky to get HD properly working.

Server + HD200(s) = success!

Tuck the server in a closet and forget about it. Or, at least try. More than likely if you're like most of the people here you'll be tweaking, adding, breaking, re-building and upgrading your server before you know it!

[autoboy]

What are you trying to record? What channels? Are they HD channels? Do you have a SD or HD cable box?

[googlexx]

how good will the quality of dvi to rca handle? Same as the hd 200?

[autoboy]

Huh?

[PiX64]

I gotta second that.... HUH?

[JetreL]

I don't think DVI ==> Component Video (S-VIDEO or RCA connector) isn't possible the pin outs are different and signaling isn't the same, blah blah blah..

Many video cards have the component outs using a separate port on the back of the card so that you can use the card on older TVs.

Here is a few articles to give you and idea of resolutions and the different video outs:

SVIDEO - RCA Video
DVI
HDMI

The HD200 has HDMI, Component, Composite or S-Video outputs. Link

It's a pretty snazzy little box that will support SD and HD easily.

[btrcp2000]

FWIW, I am still using media mvps on 2 old school TVs, and they rarely have issues playing from any of my sources, incl. r5000 and hdpvr. I think you can find them on ebay for $30-$50. I still don;t quite get why you are wanting to split the signal, but the media mvps have rca out, easy to split.

Save yourself the hassle of using your server as your playback machine, and use extenders, either the mediamvp or the hd200. Been there done that, got sick of of sitting down to watch tv and having the mouse cursor pop up and sit there in the middle of the screen, or windows barfing up something in the background and taking focus away from the sage interface, meaning the mouse/remote doesn't work anymore. Oh yeah, and if you do want to go HD eventually, start reading about codecs. You will need to try about 19 of them before you find one that works for all your formats and doesn't cause other unrelated issues.

[ryesman]

Originally Posted by Clift

The HD Theater allows you to interface with the SageTV server. You can watch recorded TV, "Live" TV, schedule recordings...

Hypothetical: If I use the Hauppauge HD PVR to record a show to my Sage PC, can I begin watching it via an Extender before it has finished recording? Does the Hauppage HD PVR use the Sage software to record, or its own software?

Followup: I've read that these external devices (Hauppage HD PVR and SageTV HD Theater) take the burden off the PC. If I got a simple PC to go next to the TV, put a Blu-Ray drive in it and installed Sage Media Center Software, how effective would it be to watch a Blu-Ray disk on the PC while recording to the hard drive via the Hauppage HD PVR?

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by ryesman

Hypothetical: If I use the Hauppauge HD PVR to record a show to my Sage PC, can I begin watching it via an Extender before it has finished recording? Does the Hauppage HD PVR use the Sage software to record, or its own software?

Yes, you may start watching it at any time. For things like football games, I usually start watching about 30 minutes or so after it starts so I can skip over commercials.

HD PVR supplies data to SageTV. SageTV supports the device natively. The only Hauppauge software you have to install is the device drivers and all configuration/scheduling is done in SageTV.

Originally Posted by ryesman

Followup: I've read that these external devices (Hauppage HD PVR and SageTV HD Theater) take the burden off the PC. If I got a simple PC to go next to the TV, put a Blu-Ray drive in it and installed Sage Media Center Software, how effective would it be to watch a Blu-Ray disk on the PC while recording to the hard drive via the Hauppage HD PVR?

Recording from a HD PVR barely takes any power because it's just writing the data do disk--no encoding/decoding necessary. As long as your computer has enough power to play back a BluRay, then you're fine, (I personally don't have a problem with BluRay playback on an integrated Intel 4500HD graphics chip and my ancient Q6600 CPU still has plenty of headroom left). If you're running real-time commercial detection on the data, you may want a little extra CPU, but you can also tune commercial detection to run off-hours, run one at a time, etc.

Keep in mind that if you view BluRays through SageTV, you'll just get the main movie. However, you can configure SageTV to automatically pass control to different playback software like PowerDVD to get full menu functionality.

Personally, I go the route of a stand-alone DVD player in the main TV room, rip store-bought DVDs/BluRays to the SageTV server so the kids can watch their stuff without getting juice, etc. on the disk or DVD player, and use an extender, (low-power, silent, and fully capable of BluRay playback although currently without the HD audio formats). I think this is a simple and still cost-effective way to not lose any functionality. Add a programmable remote to the mix and it can handle controlling everything. I use a Harmony and just have to push the "TV" or "DVD" button and it'll automatically turn on what's needed and set the inputs, etc.

[ryesman]

Thanks. That answers a lot of my questions. I do have a followup question. Suppose I decided to forget the Blu-Ray drive on the PC. If I go with the HD PVR, what's the minimum requirements for a PC I can hook up to it, assuming I use a SageTV HD Extender for playback? What's the best route to go in acquiring said PC. Currently I have only a laptop, but I don't plan on using it as part of the media center.

[wrems]

Most people build their own servers here. Lots of threads started recently devoted to that topic. I suppose people have the itch to replace their servers with tax rebates or something.

I don't own a HD PVR but I do believe that it doesnt require much of a pc... All the encoding is done on the device and the data is streamed to the PC. If you wanted the PC to play it back that is a different story, but the HD200 will play the files fine.