How do you determine your cable boxes have reset?

[ericscottf]

My cableco loves to do whatever it is they do (urban legend is that they're updating firmware, but the true reason is irrelevant) where the cable boxes wind up turned off.

Now that my rig is buried out of site in the basement, it can take even longer for me to realize i've been recording squat.

I'm working on a few ideas for fixing this, please chime in if you have a better one.

Since the cable box has a 120v outlet that gets turned off when the box is off, i'm using that as my output.
My input to read the status of the box will be one of the two following (or your idea if i like it more!)

idea 1:
120v relay whose contactors, when 120v is NOT present, short to sound a small buzzer powered from a different outlet (through one of those lamp timer modules, so the buzzer doesn't bother me if the cable boxes shut off in the middle of the night).
This is a passive solution, in that i have to hear it and turn the boxes back on.

idea 2:
A Data bus to USB converter such as FTDI's UM245R which can take (after isolation) the 120v signal and pipe it to some software (i'll have to write) on my computer.
The advantage to this (other than the geek factor) is that i can, upon seeing the cable box die, wait a predetermined amount of time, then fire up a call to my trusty USB-UIRT to send a power pulse to the cable box, turning it back on.
This is an active solution which would be nice, but take awhile longer.

I don't suppose someone has a software solution i've overlooked which watches the video for all black for a few minutes, declares the boxes off, and fires off an IR Signal to turn them back on? That would be nice too...

thanks!

[davephan]

There are a couple of ways you might be able to turn your set top boxes on. If you can send an IR code that turns the power on (not toggles the power). You would do that periodically, not actually sensing the outage.

Another way is to use a small electronic circuit, sensing the outage, and resetting the set top boxes. I built a circuit that detected the audio output of a tape recorder. Morse code was then recorded on the audio tape. The circuit keyed the ham radio code transmitter. The circuit could be modified so that if no audio was detected for a certain amount of time, such as several minutes, then the circuit would trigger a power cycle of the set top box. The audio output of the set top box would feed the circuit. The circuit could be wired to a cheap programmable or learning remote to turn on the set top boxes. The set top boxes would not need to be opened up or modified to interface with the circuit. The set top boxes would have to be normally on all the time, tuned to channels that are not silent.

This idea might seem complicated, but the circuit design would be pretty simple. If you have some soldering skills, and are willing to build up a small circuit, I could ask a friend who is an electrical engineer to design a simple circuit for you.

Dave

[ericscottf]

Yeah, as best as i know, my boxes do not have a unique on signal(Verizon fios QIP2500s, please CMIIW)

Don't take this the wrong way, you made a rather interesting circuit, but did you really have to make it that roundabout? I suppose i don't entirely understand what you're doing there -- are you sensing the audio directly from the cable box or are you sensing audio from a tape player plugged into the switched 120v outlet on the cable box?

Either way, i wouldn't have much trouble wiring something up to go 120v->relay->small USB parallel IO device->Software to read the input over USB->USB-UIRT power on signal. I was just wondering if anyone had done it in software only (detecting the cable box's off screen, etc) where i wouldn't have to buy the parts to make this go.

I'm curious as to how you wired up the part that turns your cable box back on. Just a momentary press of the power button on a universal remote? That's what it seems like from your post. I've got two cable boxes, so one of them is tented, so that wouldn't work for me. I need the power on signal to go through the USB-UIRT transmitter that is under the tent, or i need a small actuator to press the power button (lame).

My cable box has a constant logo for its off screen that floats around the screen. Probably trivial to detect, but once it has been found by software, that means it is too late, and a show is already partially screwed up (not counting the fact that once the box is on, the channel needs to be re-tuned too, which seems difficult...)

I suppose one option would be to wire up a small solenoid to the 120v side. I could attach a latch to a sealed container with a piece of cheese in it. When the cable box turns off, the latch would open, attracting a mouse to the piece of cheese. The cheese would be accessible only over one thin platform which would be connected through levers and gears to another small lever which pressed the power button when the mouse walked over the platform. The only problem i can see with this is my cat getting the mouse first.

I really hate cable-cos.

[Fuzzy]

There may not be a unique on command, but they may turn on when pressing another key, like SELECT, or Play... You'll just have to play around a bit to find something that works. You can set this to be blasted periodically (using STBKeepAlive), or set it as a pre-channel change transmit in sage. My Dish Network boxes turn off every morning after it's 'update' at 3am. However, I just send SELECT prior to any channel change, and they are always awake for recording time.

[davephan]

The idea of the circuit is quit simple. It sounds like you don't believe the problem can be solved with some logic and a little electronic design. The problem wouldn't be difficult to solve automatically.

When your cablebox is running, and turned on 24 X 7, there is audio coming out of the cable box, assuming you never tune into a channel that is continueously silent. So, the audio is coming out of the cablebox continueously, except for small time windows when the audio level is zero, or silent. If the audio is silent longer than pre-determined time threshold, then it is assumed that the problem you are experiencing with the firmware updates is occuring.

The circuit then either power cycles the set top box or turns on the power, depending on what you need to solve the problem. The circuit could be designed either way.

The circuit is hooked up to your cablebox line level audio output. The audio signal or voltage is then detected by the circuit. When the signal or voltage level drops to zero, a timing circuit starts. When the audio or voltage returns the timing restarts. So the circuit only triggers a power recycle if the time exceeds the pre-determined time limit. The output of the circuit is hooked up to a remote control, which could power cycle your cablebox. Or, the output of the circuit could be hooked up to a solid state relay to cycle the power.

The problem you are experiencing can be solved automatically with just a bit of logic and some electronic design. The electronic design part is not very complicated and not very expensive either. Most of the parts could probably be purchased at Radio Shack. I'm guessing the cost for the parts might be about $50, but that is just a rough guess. If you needed the circuit to be hooked up to a cheap programmable remote control, that cost would be an additional cost. Once it is determined what you actually need to do to reset your cablebox.

So, your cablebox problem can be solved, and then you would not be annoyed in the future when there are shows that are not recorded. If I was experiencing that type of problem, it would really annoy me, and I would fix it with an automatic cablebox resetting circuit.

There's another alternative too, doing nothing. The problem continues, and you become annoyed over and over in the future. You might try switching from cable to satellite, but they do firmware updates sometimes too, but not very often.

Dave

[ericscottf]

Dave

I think you're confusing my statement that your solution seems a bit more complicated than I need (using audio to determine status) with one of fear of electronics design. My lack of desire to use the audio signal stems from an ability to use a simpler method based on the characteristics of my cable box.

I think that using the switched 120v outlet on my cable box as the status indicator would be a simpler, more robust way of determining the cable box's status. When my cable box is on, that outlet has 120v power, and when it is off, there is no power. one relay, one input, one USB chip with some inputs and I'm done.

As for turning the box back on, i never tried it, but i can't imagine that power-cycling the box when it is off will bring it back to life.
I'll mess around with pressing select/etc, but my concern there would be having menus pop up occasionally in the middle of shows. I'll have to check it out and see what happens.

Does anyone here have a QIP2500 and know what IR signals are best for ensuring the box is alive?

[davephan]

Ok. I understand now. I missed that line about the switched power on the cablebox. Using the switched power outlet to detect if the box is off would be much simplier than sensing the audio voltage from the line level output conector on the cablebox. If there wasn't a switched outlet on the cablebox, to audio voltage method is a way to sense the 'off' status.

Maybe sending the select button periodically would keep the box alive. A periodic IR signal would be a better solution to prevent the cablebox from ever turning off instead of letting it turn off and then turning it back on. I suspect that the cablebox might not save any power when it is shut off anyway, since most of the box is probably still on, except for the switched power and the power indicator LED.

If you can't resolve the problem sending periodic IR signals, then using the switched power to sense the 'off' state is still an option. When the switched power transistions from 'power' to 'no power', a one-shot circuit could trigger a cheap remote control to send a power on or power toggle IR command, which would turn the box back on. This type of a circuit would be easier to design and cost less than using the audio voltage to sense the power state.

Dave

[ericscottf]

Cable box isn't turning off because of an inactivity timeout, it is turning off because the cableco "sends new firmware" or whatever it is they do. This happens once a month or so, the problem is that i don't notice for up to a week.

Also, using a cheap remote to send any kind of signal is out of the question, as i have my boxes tented to prevent crosstalk. Any IR signal has to go through the USB-UIRT.

I'll experiment and see if sending select (or any other random button):
1) turns on an off box
1b) doesn't turn off an on box
2) doesn't turn on some random menu that blocks everything
if that's the case, i'll just write something to send a select command once every few hrs, regardless of box status.

otherwise, i'm going to have to sense and send.

where's my open cable card!

[dadof4]

This does not detect if the box is off but allows it to be cycled remotely. It would eliminate the trip to the basement. I am in Florida and my boxes are in NY and I can, and have, power cycled them from here.


http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...241#post405241

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by ericscottf

As for turning the box back on, i never tried it, but i can't imagine that power-cycling the box when it is off will bring it back to life.
I'll mess around with pressing select/etc, but my concern there would be having menus pop up occasionally in the middle of shows. I'll have to check it out and see what happens.

If you use it just prior to channel change, then it shouldn't be a problem.

[ericscottf]

Apparently, on my boxes, pressing Menu will activate a sleeping box, but bring up the giant menu, so if i have a program issue a menu press and then an exit press, say, at 6:05am and 6:05pm every day, i should be good. At worst, if a program is recording at 6, i'll have half a second of menu blip, and the chance of 12h of off cable box.

not too bad, and it means no wiring...

[davephan]

Maybe another alternative method would be to have SageTV recording some channels you normally don't watch 24 x 7 at a low priority. Then the set top box would always get periodic activity from the normal programming your record and the garbage. Then you just have a script automatically delete the garbage recordings later. If channel switching is configured to always occur before each program, then the set top box will always have 'activity' so it 'thinks' someone is activity using it, without popup menus in the programs you actually want to record.

Dave

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by davephan

Maybe another alternative method would be to have SageTV recording some channels you normally don't watch 24 x 7 at a low priority. Then the set top box would always get periodic activity from the normal programming your record and the garbage. Then you just have a script automatically delete the garbage recordings later. If channel switching is configured to always occur before each program, then the set top box will always have 'activity' so it 'thinks' someone is activity using it, without popup menus in the programs you actually want to record.

Dave

He's not having an issue with the box timing out on inactivity. He's having a problem with system updates leaving the box in a sleeping state. Dish network has this problem as well, only it actually occurs every night at 3am.

[ericscottf]

Dave -- Fuzzy is right, as stated in my first post, the cable boxes randomly go off around once or twice a month at completely unpredictable times (as best as i can tell). Common consensus is that the cableco is "updating firmware", but until i hear that from a cableco engineer, i'm going to believe that it is done because they're heartless bastards.

Not frequent enough to make it so i constantly check them, not infrequently enough as to be an irrelevant problem.

[Fuzzy]

Well, they ARE heartless bastards, but you do continue to pay them.

[texneus]

Heh, yah, isn't that something. What's more I pay them to deliver 1000's of hours of programming I'll never use.

Question: If I have a box connected via firewire (for channel change), is there a way to tell when it's disappeared from the device manager? Perhaps the solution is real simple...

[ericscottf]

You could write something....
http://www.planet-source-code.com/vb...45360&lngWId=1

On that note, i found a USB port on my motorola cable box. Does anyone know see the device when it is on/ if i can change channels over that?

thanks

[jgscott987]

I have two SA 4250HDC set-top boxes hooked up via firewire for channel changing. Fortunately, when I send a channel change to a box that is powered off, it turns the box on. I may miss the first recording after a power-off, but after that I'm fine. Be sure to set Sage to always tune channel.

Hope this helps.

[korben_dallas]

As I recall, someone else solved this issue by some clever key sequence sending:

1) Key sequence is sent which navigates through the STB main menu and selects to turn off the STB
2) Power toggle is sent

If box is on, then #1 will turn it off, and #2 will turn it back on.
If box is off, then #1 will not register, and #2 will turn it back on.

There are a number of programs which can on schedule send IR commands through USB-UIRT. Girder, EventGhost, and LMkeymap come to mind.

[ericscottf]

ehhhhh.
Channel changes take too long as it is. I don't want to increase that time with a bunch of commands that are only useful one time in 200...