Sage / Frey at CES?

[korben_dallas]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm excited still. We now are sure SageTV7 is in the works and we should be getting a beta with good stuff.

And an update to the UI - I know Zatz said 3D, but I'm not expecting 3D glasses are required or anything like that . That will likely make some of the SageTV faithful nervous & others happy, but I trust the flexibility of SageTV will keep all of us happy one way or another.

Not to be a doubting Thomas, but is there some corroboration? Anyone can make a blog post about SageTV version 7's interface, but seeing is believing.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

Anyone can make a blog post about SageTV version 7's interface, but seeing is believing.

doubt a blog post! Blasphemy I tell you

Nope, nobody can say more than what you read in that post, although I trust Dave Zatz a great deal. We'll just have to wait for more info.

[korben_dallas]

Originally Posted by PosterBoy

version 7 of SageTV which features an all-new 3D UI

Where is he getting this info?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

Where is he getting this info?

From the folks that make SageTV.

[wado1971]

I donno - kind of a vague statement.

Could be read as.....
"I was hopeful of getting a sneak peak at version 7 of SageTV which features an all-new 3D UI. But I missed the shuttle bus because I was laying drunk under a craps table, so we’re going to have to wait a bit longer."

or....

"I was hopeful of getting a sneak peak at version 7 of SageTV which features an all-new 3D UI. But after a long discussion with the CEO of SageTV, he indicated that v7 has a great new UI but they are still a few days till release, so we’re going to have to wait a bit longer."

??

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Brent

From the folks that make SageTV.

And this also jives with what Narflex told Brent already, a UI update was high on the priority list. Hooray!

[voidpt]

Just hope by 3D UI that they mean "nice fake 3D look-a-like". I want my UI fast and responsive, also on HD200, like iPhone/iPod touch GUI. Do not sacrifice speed, please. I do not want a requirement for 1GB DDR5 GPU to run it Other than that, new snazzy UI I'll pay for. High up on my list too

[brewston]

Originally Posted by voidpt

Just hope by 3D UI that they mean "nice fake 3D look-a-like". :

I hope I don't have to wear 3D glasses to change channels !

(I guess they mean like PC games are 3d graphics ? )

[cat6man]

(insert big yawn)

i think you're right brent...................nothing about ui or hulu is of much interest to me personally, but as long as they get a hd300 out there sometime in 2010 (hopefully in the 1st half), i'll be a happy camper. their track record
speaks for itself.

and yes, my first thought was '3D glasses to use my hd200'??????
wtf?

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by voidpt

Just hope by 3D UI that they mean "nice fake 3D look-a-like". I want my UI fast and responsive, also on HD200, like iPhone/iPod touch GUI. Do not sacrifice speed, please. I do not want a requirement for 1GB DDR5 GPU to run it Other than that, new snazzy UI I'll pay for. High up on my list too

The first thing that popped into my head when I read this was a quote from Wayne's World, "We fear change."

That being said, I'm sure that they wouldn't make the requirements so high that you'd require such a GPU. If you're talking a full client you most likely want something that has H.264 acceleration. This means a relatively modern GPU that would be quite fast enough to render a UI quickly. As long as you're not sticking with Intel integrated graphics I don't think there's much to worry about. Although, I don't see them designing anything that won't scale well backwards.

I personally look forward to a snazzier more modern UI engine. Even SageMC can't change the fact that the style of UI currently in SageTV is quite dated.

[sic0048]

It's all speculation, but my idea of "3D" is simply a redesign of the GUI using more modern icons, lists, and buttons that aren't flat 2-D, but rather have depth to them.

It's similar to the "Web 2.0" icon reference I made in another thread that got me in so much trouble. Everyone thought I wanted the GUI to be the new Facebook or something.....

Of course that is what I want in a GUI, so that is what I assume they mean by "3-D" Only time will tell what they have planned.....

[Taddeusz]

When I think 3D in reference to SageTV I think 3D accelerated. AFAIK, SageTV's UI is already minimally 3D accelerated. Appears mostly to be used for font smoothing and possibly the animations. A 3D accelerated interface that really takes advantage of it would mean nicer transitions and easier use of transparency and translucency.

I realize one of the original goals was to allow SageTV to still run on very spartan hardware. This is the reason we still have a few people still running on P3 class hardware. But with SD quickly being replaced by HD this old class of hardware is no longer sufficient. The "minimum hardware bar" has been raised significantly over the last 7+ years. Even if all you have is a standalone server that old hardware really isn't good enough to do anything beyond recording a couple things at once.

Fast forward to the present where most enthusiasts have hardware that is better than a P4. In many cases significantly better. In my case I started running SageTV on a P3 500 sitting beside my TV. Now I'm running a standalone C2D E6550. Quite a huge difference and I'm able to do so much more with the faster hardware.

With all that in mind the only real impediment they have in bringing a significantly better UI would be the media extenders. If they design the new UI correctly it should be backward scalable enough that it will run on that limited hardware.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

With all that in mind the only real impediment they have in bringing a significantly better UI would be the media extenders. If they design the new UI correctly it should be backward scalable enough that it will run on that limited hardware.

Agreed. And I remember Jeff (Narflex) saying it was important to them that any update to UI needed to work well on the extenders so I trust that's something they will be mindful of.

[loonsailor]

It's all speculation but I suspect that 3D in this case may mean cover art on rotating cubes, quasi-stacked folders, stuff like that.

Personally, I don't care much about the UI. It's functional as it is. I'd much rather see effort towards using one of the new cable card solutions, like the new HDHR or the Ceton card. Yes, my hdpvr plus an STB works, but not always, and it's big, and the quality will never match what it could be without the conversion to analog and back again.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by loonsailor

It's all speculation but I suspect that 3D in this case may mean cover art on rotating cubes, quasi-stacked folders, stuff like that.

Personally, I don't care much about the UI. It's functional as it is. I'd much rather see effort towards using one of the new cable card solutions, like the new HDHR or the Ceton card. Yes, my hdpvr plus an STB works, but not always, and it's big, and the quality will never match what it could be without the conversion to analog and back again.

Unfortunately that will probably not happen any time soon, if ever. The powers that be won't allow it unless SageTV bites the bullet and accepts some form of DRM.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

That being said, I'm sure that they wouldn't make the requirements so high that you'd require such a GPU. If you're talking a full client you most likely want something that has H.264 acceleration. This means a relatively modern GPU that would be quite fast enough to render a UI quickly.

I would prefer that modern GPU was targeted. Anything purchased in the last couple years will have dx9 capable GPU in it, and even if it doesn't they are cheap.

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

As long as you're not sticking with Intel integrated graphics I don't think there's much to worry about.

Only very old Intel IGP would be a problem.

[Skirge01]

Something just crossed my mind about this. They would still need to have a basic GUI which worked on IGPs even if for the sole purpose of allowing WHS users to pull up the interface.

That said, I'm all in favor of a nice revamping of the interface and using the GPU to a greater extent. They just can't go overboard an cause 90% of their users to need to upgrade their GPU.

[wado1971]

Even now we can turn animations on/off - I assume they'll do something similar.

[voidpt]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

The first thing that popped into my head when I read this was a quote from Wayne's World, "We fear change."

Lol. Nah. I don't fear change. I just want it done elegant and not brute force. I'll try to explain a little better what I was trying to get through, didn't do a very good job of it.

What I was trying to get to was that it is possible to make a "beautiful 3D UI look" with just 2D draw + bitmap elements. If done correctly with simulated/faked reflection, pre-rendered shadow / lighting elements and so on. Just be clever with how you compose it. That will not increase the load requirement on existing clients, be it placeshifter or extender. I do not want a 200W requirement on my extender I really like how silent and small it is. Going back to a PC extender to get a new look, because the "impotent" extender gets a less than optimal fallback UI , would be a loss to me.

Originally Posted by Brent

Agreed. And I remember Jeff (Narflex) saying it was important to them that any update to UI needed to work well on the extenders so I trust that's something they will be mindful of.

I really hope that. And from SageTV's mindset until now I really would be suprised of anything else.

One extra note. I do admire how SageTV has made it possible to customize the UI 100% by anyone. It will still work on placeshifter / extenders. With the 'server-render-to-client' interface (as far as I can understand). But if the client (placeshifter/extender) could cache most elements, or it was fixed, and a little more intelligence on the client side. The client/server would only need to send minimal instructions, and only when needed. The client navigation experience could get a lot faster. Although I guess that would crash with a lot of the UI customize possibilities.

One last though just now. Do not envy the task of trying to translate all the existing options / menu choices / tags / views of SageTV today into a new interface. That is gonna take some work. And if one single little feature of today is dropped, you know there is one person, somewhere, whos life depends on that single feature And he is going to be pissed

[peternm22]

This is an excerpt from Brent's interview with SageTV last summer. It appears he's talking about Windows Media Center in reference to a 3D interface....

Jeff: "We are definitely looking into addressing a lot of the concerns in the UI. So many times I wonder, “what do people actually want?” The current UI is very powerful and can do a lot of stuff really well. Yeah it’s not as flashy as Windows Media Center but that also is a very unfair comparison. Because Windows Media Center - especially Windows 7 Media Center runs on a Windows 7 box or Vista Box that has to be how powerful? Compared to what has to run on the HD200 that has a 300 Mhz processor on it – not 3 Ghz, but 300 Mhz and uses a fraction of the power a PC uses."

"The media extender mode has similar stuff where you have a server serving multiple clients/extenders simultaneously doing all of that work. So if we have to make more limitations maybe. We don’t have 3D graphics processors in these HD200s, we do have hardware accelerations, but its 2D not 3D. That’s a limitation we have to deal with that they don’t. And that’s one of the things that we know we can’t go as far as they’ve gone, but we can definitely do more as we’ve seen with SageMC – SageMC runs on the HD200 just as well and has different effects on it. But a lot of it is trying to figure out what really is everyone looking for."

"Also we want retain the things we like about the current UI in that transition. Some of that stuff we do know what people want, but other things we’re still trying to understand."

Source: http://www.geektonic.com/2009/07/int...to-and_07.html