Frey Technologies at CES

[mwhitlock]

I'm sitting at the gate at McCarron airport in Las Vegas, waiting for my flight. I actually ran across the Frey Technologies booth at CES totally by accident! They were showing SageTV on their new Linux-based set-top box. That thing might just make HTPCs obsolete.

The box was using a slightly different STV than what we're used to, so I asked the guy and he said an update would be released soon to incorporate it.

I asked about their plans for HDTV support for PCs and was told they would be working on it once they were finished with the show. Who knows how long we can expect to wait, though.

AVerMedia was showcasing a very nice HDTV tuner card with hardware MPEG-2 capture/compression and playback over the PCI bus. None of that stupid loopthrough VGA cable. The rep said it would be on the market in about 6 months with OEM versions available sooner.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mwhitlock

AVerMedia was showcasing a very nice HDTV tuner card with hardware MPEG-2 capture/compression and playback over the PCI bus. None of that stupid loopthrough VGA cable. The rep said it would be on the market in about 6 months with OEM versions available sooner.

I may have to kill you for getting my hopes up but, I've got to ask:

HDTV tuner with hardware MPEG-2 compression -

Does that mean hardware encoding of SD only, or does it by chance mean hardware encoding of HD?

I suspect SD only (like the Sasem) but... Can there be a glimer of hope....
Probably only for a few seconds.

[SHS]

Hmm (None of that stupid loopthrough VGA cable) what wrong with that?, after it usely mean there a REAl Hardware decoder which dose away better job the software can any day of the week.

[stanger89]

You lost me SHS. Do you know something about this Aver HD card?

-edit

Scratch that, I should read more closely.

[DFA]

I am also in the no "stupid video loop-through" camp.

DFA

[mwhitlock]

Lemma #1:

All decent video cards manufactured in the past several years include hardware color acceleration and hardware motion compensation. On my system, I can easily decode 1920x1080 MPEG-2 and still have CPU time left to use applications on my computer.

Lemma #2:

I have two ViewSonic VG191b monitors connected to my HIS Excalibur Radeon 9600 Dual-DVI video card. Thus, using the video loopthrough cable is simply not an option since I'd have nowhere to connect it. Not to mention analog video sucks.

I am attaching the photo I shot of the AVerMedia product's display board. When I arrived at the booth, the demo computer was playing back a recorded TV show that didn't look so great (fuzzy and some horizontal ghosting), and I said to a nearby rep, "that can't possibly be an HD video, can it?" He replied that it was a recording of an HD show. He was wrong because a few seconds later another rep came over and said that the clip playing was a standard analog cable recording. He went through a couple menus in the software and brought up an actual high definition recording, and I must say, it was nice looking. Smooth playback too, just like watching it live on an HDTV monitor.

Here is some more information:
- the card can only do terrestrial ATSC tuning, not QAM.
- looking at the card's single coax jack, one would assume that it does not tune analog cable at all.
- the representative said the card would retail for between $150 and $200.

In my opinion, for that price, you could just run two cards in your box, a PVR-250 for analog cable and this AVer card for digital HD. Those on digital cable won't be satisfied by it unless AVer can add QAM decoding to it before it's released, but those of us with a few good OTA broadcast HD channels in our area will appreciate the nice price, the small card size, and the ability to play back video over the PCI bus.

[Crazedz]

The fusion 3 gold atsc qam card has 1 coax jack and it can tune analog cable.

Ripped from the specs of the fusion 3 off Dvico's site

Analog TV RelatedAanalogTV SetreoN.G.N.G.Video ADC resolution 8bit 10bit *TV Audio hearing without cabling N.G.O.K. (Windows2000,XP)A/V Input portO.K.O.K.External Audio OutputO.K.N.G.Internal Audio OutputO.K.O.K.


But though it doesn't do analog stereo it does do analog tv as well as HD through one coax so it is possible to do it.

And as far as i know no loopback cable plus it's avalible now. Though it does qam but as this disclaimer states.


QAM decoding is under development due to the variations in Cable service providers. QAM256 generally has been reported to work, although QAM64 still poses problems with the decoding software. FusionHDTV QAM decoding is limited to only the non-encrypted channels available (generally the OTA local stations).

It also retails for $150 so sounds like a better deal.

BTW good to hear their going to work on HD support my hope is they add it soon because others are already working on it or already have it in the case of mce so i'd hate to see sage get left behind on it.

[mwhitlock]

So how do you hook up both analog cable and an antenna? Perhaps it can tune analog cable along with digital cable, or receive analog OTA broadcast along with digital ATSC, but it doesn't seem you could mix them. Is that right?

[mwhitlock]

I almost forgot to brag! Here it is: You all only wish you had a SageTV pen like mine. Muahahaha!!

[kny3twalker]

whats the point of mpeg2 compression from OTA HD
you do not need it
furthermore won't that decrease the quality
I would think any capture card with HD mpeg2 compression would need component input and this card does not have it

[SHS]

All video have had this feature hardware color acceleration ever scean the brith of VGA man that really old news.

The truth is unfortunately when come to HDTV resolution, the system requirements are quite more demanding in my opinion more so than what the manufacturer suggests for PC.

There are serverly key problem
1: 99% of today Video card do not do full MPEG hardware decoding it only dose part it so there for it only assists in the decoding.
2: There are no Multi-Sync 16:9 CRT Monitor that run at 1920x1080
3: There are no Multi-Sync 16:9 LCD Monitor that run at 1920x1080
4: Try playing a 3D game at 1920x1080 with out Multi-Sycn Monitor Ekk the main reason for Multi-Sycn so can switch resolution on the fly that display at full screen being I usely run my at 800x600 unless there older game Quake 1, Unreal then I take them to the max 1024x768 becuase the Video card now day have more then enough hosepower to push them older one without and problem.

Sure you (can easily decode 1920x1080 MPEG-2 and still have CPU time left to use applications on my computer) that if your runing the biggest and baddest CPU and DX9 Compatible Video card which only help with some MPEG assists decoding and you still have to pray to god it work like it should after all there are no guaranteed this going work for everbody.
Keep in mind that a lot people out there don't run high resolution PC monitor so there for it going have resize in order fit the screen becuases a lot of PC user only run 4:3 Monitor usely at 1024x768 and I preson hate LCD I think they not as good Multi-Sycn CRT Monitor and LCD usely don't last as long CRT any way, I wouldn't mind 16:9 Direct View (single tube based) TV Displays but they don't make any Multi-Sycn nor PC CRT monitor in 16:9 and Windows don't look good at fix 60Hz I perf 85Hz and they usely very Poor PQ which usely very blurrryyy when using S/Video and I have try using 16:9 Direct View TV with DVI to HDMI but it still look like carp.

Did you boys and girl know that all HDTV set and any other stand along HDTV device all have Hardware decoder.

99% of the problem Cable service providers have very own custom Tuner box which do not work well with PC Tuner.
Sage not get left behind Crazedz after all min MCE user just end switch to SageTV or one other 3rdparty apps any way due DRM carp.
HDTV is still very small number of people.

[SHS]

kny3twalker ther no way h@ll your going capture 1920x1080 AVI with this or any other card even if it had component input unless there some kind of hardware compression.

[kny3twalker]

wait a sec SHS
you only need mpeg2 compresion when capturing analogue
for digital coax input the stream is already mpeg2 and plently of people capture TS streams now and they are fine in file size and for playback
what would be the point in having mpeg2 compression on non encrypted broadcast such as OTA

this is only benefitical for component input or VGA input which are analogue

oh and web surfing at 1080i right now on direct view CRT
(giant text)

[Cayars]

Yep, I don't think there are any 1920x1080 LCD monitors either but I run 1600x1200 on my LCD and can decode HD to this output just fine with my FX-5700 and it plays just fine (Alianware Notebook). So I don't think 1920x1080 is going to be that big a deal with a high end computer.

[stanger89]

Kny,

I'm 99% sure that the MPEG 2 encoding is for SD, just like the Sasem USB-HDTV.

SHS,
There are a few LCD monitors that support 1920x1080, or more correctly 1920x1200. And the requirements for playing HD with a good DXVA card are not high:

From the Fusion requirements:

DXVA based VGA cards
Pentium3 750MHz or faster with 128M memory
Celeron 900Mhz or faster with 128M memory
All ATI Radeon series VGA
nVidia MX420,440,FX series VGA
Runs on WinME/2000/XP or later
Ultra-DMA66 IDE controller-HDD for recording
Requires one PCI slot

I would say the average user who would buy one of these would have a PC that easilly meets those requirements.

Oh, and resizing requires 0 CPU as it is done in full hardware by the video card.

[jptaz]

I agree with SHS - you would need a really fast interface to be able to bring in 237.3MB/s of uncompressed 1920x1080i at 30 Frames Per Second (60 interlaces frames). EVen at 1280x720P we are talking about 210MB/s. So even if you could pull the data into the PC and get it to the video card to display that is all you could do since I am unaware of any drive that can sustain that kind write performance even with a raid.

Also in terms of software playback of HD content I question how well it really works since no PC based software decoder I have seen can do smooth fast motion playback. It doesn't matter how fast the PC is because PCs can not do the timing accurately enough to get the frames to show up at the correct time. MPEG2 decoders have specialized clocks that make sure that things happen at the exact time.

The major plus side with HD versus SD content from an encoding card is that the HD content is more like to be a perfectly encoded stream as opposed to the less than perfect stream from the encoders. This makes the odds of a software decoder doing a good job better, but still not as good as a hardware solution.

Just my opion.

John

[SHS]

kny3twalker I was talk component input capture which is an analog input which can 480, 720 and 1080

[kny3twalker]

well I agree then mpeg2 compression in hardware would be awesome
but that card had no component input
and I agree with what stanger is saying
'this card seems to be another SASEM but pci
wow

[SHS]

kny3twalker what make amd model of your direct view CRT?.

[kny3twalker]

Sony KD30-XS955
there are also the KD 34-XS955
and KD 34XBR960 all have super fine pitch and cable card/HDTV tuner
the XBR gets firewire output and dual NTSC tuners
it is 1080i so there is a little flicker on some objects but nice really nice
about 4-5 ft away laying down and can read the text pretty well
the align buttons in the reply page flicker but everything else looks great
and like I said using control+ mouse wheel to make big text