Best tuner card for Comcast cable?

[Sinistral]

I'm new to HTPCs in general and would like to make the best hardware choices the first time through. I just picked up a 1.5 TB hard drive, already have 4 GB of DDR2 RAM, and am considering a dual-core 3.1 GHZ processor (because there's chance it can be unlocked to quad-core).

I've never used a tuner/capture card before so I'm not sure what to expect in terms of brand quality. From what I've seen Hauppage seems to be the most popular brand. I was considering the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 from newegg but this particular review makes me worry because I have Comcast!

I'm looking for some input on what to expect. I very much would like to record two channels at once - ideally I'd like to record two and watch a third channel but I understand that's being picky. I use the Comcast set-top box to get my HD channels and I'm not really sure how it interacts with a tuner card. I don't think I can use the set-top box actually and that is what tunes into the HD channels from Comcast. Can someone who has experience with this let me know what my best option is?

I also looked at the AVerTVHD Duet, it too has some questionable reviews.

[ChaOConnor]

Regarding you worries about Comcast, that will be the case with any card on any cable provider. The only channels you will ever get will be un-encrypted Clear QAM. That's true if you go with the 2250 or the AVerMedia AVerTVHD Duet.

If you want to record all your Comcast channels, you'll need a setup box and an HD-PVR.

Hope that helps!

[Sinistral]

Thanks for the info, ChaOConnor. Are there any other external HD-PVR devices on the market? I looked on Newegg and HDHomeRun and similar devices are just external tuners rather than PVR devices.

Comcast is switching everything to digital. As a side note, I recall hearing in some Comcast "propaganda" (commercial) you'll need their converter or set-top boxes to access any of their channels - forget about the free government supplied analog-to-digital converters. I'm sure this is a big newbie question () but if an internal PCI/-e based tuner can pick up digital NTSC/ATSC signals why can't I just tune to them from the coaxial connection and pick up the Comcast channels? Would this have anything to do with their switching to digital?

[Protoman]

I have Comcast, and understand what your fears are. With regards to getting Clear Qam (Digital channels above channel 100) it can vary, but more than likely all you will receive are the locals and maybe a few more. I do not do any Clear Qam since I get all the locals in HD via Over-The-Air (OTA) with an antenna.

Since you do have a HD Set-Top-Box (STB) from Comcast you might want to look at doing Firewire Tuning. You might be able to actually use the STB as a tuner. This is what I used to do before I upgraded to Windows Home Server (WHS), then at the same time I also purchased 2 Hauppauge HD-PVRs, because I wasn't able to tune channels via Firewire with WHS (DirectX was missing and I had a hard time fixing it, but I am able to now). This will allow you to get most of the Digital channels. I know I had problems with a few like History HD and a few others (a reason why I got the HD-PVRs). This will also help keep the initial cost done a bit while you learn and decide what you like. Here is a HUGE thread on STB Firewire Support, but it has good documentation on how to set it up...
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...light=firewire

The best way to figure out what you need and want is to figure out what do you watch the most and go from there. I started out with just a Hauppauge PVR2USB Analog tuner and used Hauppauge's WinTV application, as I was watching more and more shows I bought the SageTV and Hauppauge PVR500 bundle, and since then I have added more and more tuners, and upgraded my server.

Hope this helps,
Porotman

[Protoman]

I am not sure what you level of knowledge is in regards to HTPCs and such, but this should help you get up a few notches.

The HD-PVR is a USB tuner, and you have to connect a STB to it via component or S-Video cables. The HD-PVR is controlled by software, and in this case SageTV. It is similar to any other tuner, except that the HD-PVR allows for component cables to be connected to it. As far as I know this is a one of a kind tuner.

The HDHomeRun is a tuner that connects via your network connection. It can do ATSC and Clear QAM, which are explained below.

There are several TV standards that are in use. These only apply to the USA (as I am unfamiliar with any overseas and Canada ones).

For OTA (Over-The-Air) there is ATSC (digital) and NTSC (analog). The big "Digital Transition" that happen during this summer was essentially the removal of NTSC from OTA.

For cable, there is NTSC (analog), Clear QAM (digital), and QAM (digital). NTSC, which is analog, are channels 1-99 and most tuner cards support this standard. Clear QAM and QAM and both digital, and are channels above 100. QAM are protected channels that can not be recorded, whereas Clear QAM are unprotected channels that can be recorded if the tuner card supports it.


As for Comcast, I have heard their propaganda about switching to all digital too, but I am not sure how it will affect me yet, so I am not getting too excited and freaked out.

I figure worse case I lose 4 NTSC tuners, and am left with 3 ATSC OTA tuners and 2 HD-PVRs. Heck, it might even be nice to be able to get rid of my Hauppauge PVR500 and upgrade my 2 HVR-1800s to Avermedia AverTV Duets.

[Sinistral]

Thanks a lot for all that info, Protoman! I never realized the Comcast STB had Firewire! I read a bit through the Firewire guide you linked and it looks like you don't even need a capture card to record things, just a powerful processor. I suspect Comcast may have copy prevention implemented on the premium tier channels like HBO and Starz as well as their On-Demand content. It's definitely worth taking a look at though.

Thanks again, Protoman & ChaOConnor!

[Protoman]

With that STB Firewire you don't need a powerful processor, since it just pulls the video right off the Firewire. You are right about the Premium Channels and there are some that are protected that are not Premium tiered as well, which is one reason to go with the HD-PVR. On-Demand though is an entirely different beast and cannot be controlled with SageTV. You literally need to use the remote from Comcast to control the STB to watch On-Demand.

[techhome]

I'm on Comcast and pay only for basic service. I use a HD Homerun with Sage and pull in 125 channels, after disabling QVC, local info channels, foreign language channels and the like. To be fair, these channels do include a bunch of Music Choice stuff, but they also include all network channels & PBS in glorious HD as well as a handful of other HD signals like NBA, NFL, SPEED, etc.

Unless you pay for or plan to upgrade to premium programming and feel it necessary to timeshift/record thru Sage, just go for a HDHR or other internal QAM digital capture card that is Sage compatible.

There's no need for comcast set-top boxes or an analog PC TV capture card at all...

TechHome

[ChaOConnor]

NP Sinistral... Just check your STB and make sure it a) has FireWire and b) has been confirmed to work with the firewire STB drivers. I tried with a non-supported STB, did all sorts of stuff but could never make it work properly. Good luck!

[wrems]

IMO, get the HD Homerun and don’t look back! They are a little more costly but really versatile especially if you end up getting a retail WHS box someday. You can never depend of the availability of PCI express slots…

[sainswor99]

And just to complicate matters further, if you don't really care about HD (or you have a mixture of SD and HD channels), you may also want to add an analog tuner and just use S-Video out of an STB (if Comcast is all-digital in your area). If Firewire doesn't work, IR-blasting usually does (ran that way for over a year and never missed a channel change).

The beauty of Sage is that you can mix and match all of these options in a single server; a lot of it depends on whether or not you want HD to be captured, or if digital SD is OK.

[Sinistral]

Originally Posted by Protoman

With that STB Firewire you don't need a powerful processor, since it just pulls the video right off the Firewire. You are right about the Premium Channels and there are some that are protected that are not Premium tiered as well, which is one reason to go with the HD-PVR. On-Demand though is an entirely different beast and cannot be controlled with SageTV. You literally need to use the remote from Comcast to control the STB to watch On-Demand.

Why couldn't I just forget about Firewire altogether and use a Component (YPbPr) connection to bypass any DCHP flags? It's not digital, but then again in this situation it looks like that's desirable.

Originally Posted by techhome

...
Unless you pay for or plan to upgrade to premium programming and feel it necessary to timeshift/record thru Sage, just go for a HDHR or other internal QAM digital capture card that is Sage compatible.
...

Really I just want a high powered Tivo that has traditional PC features like ripping/burning. I used to have DirecTV and a Tivo package with it. I loved it. I was able to record and time-shift two channels and even watch a third while that was happening.

From what I've read Comcast is going all digital. You might want to look into it because I've read people are losing a lot of Clear QAM channels already and my area (Western MA) has already gone all digital.

Originally Posted by ChaOConnor

NP Sinistral... Just check your STB and make sure it a) has FireWire and b) has been confirmed to work with the firewire STB drivers. I tried with a non-supported STB, did all sorts of stuff but could never make it work properly. Good luck!

I have the Motorola DCT6200. It's been confirmed working and has drivers. Thanks for the heads up though.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Sinistral

Why couldn't I just forget about Firewire altogether and use a Component (YPbPr) connection to bypass any DCHP flags?

You can with the HD-PVR, and it's really the only way to get all the channel you pay for, in HD quality, into sage. (Well, teh R-5000 is also an option for some, but definately not for the feint of heart - or wallet). Still, firewire would be a more reliable way of controlling the STB that is feeding the HD-PVR.

CableCard support might start trickling in in the next year or so, but that's an 'only-time-will-tell' sort of thing.

[Protoman]

Originally Posted by sainswor99

...you may also want to add an analog tuner and just use S-Video out of an STB...

It sounds like he already has an HD STB, and just adding Firewire would get him up and running at less of an expense, with the exception of time to set it up.


In my setup, I have 2 HD-PVRs and each one is connect to its own STB via Component, SPDIF, and I use Firewire to only change channels.

I would say the best solution for Sinistral's situation would be to setup Firewire for the STB, since you have one anyways you might as well use it. Once you have one STB setup for Firewire an additional STBs are simple to add-on. If down the road you want to add an HD-PVR or are forced to then you have channel changing setup already.

If you want to purchase a TV Tuner I would definitely say get one that allows for Clear QAM to be recorded be it a Hauppauge tuner or a HDHomeRun.