SageTV vs Media Center 7

[J3G]

I am about to give some advice to the SageTV owners (the ones I paid $99 to). I'm not sure how you will compete with the FREE Win Media Center 7. It has been hacked to allow for every feature SageTV offers. Here is some advice if you would like to see SageTV hit the big time.

1. Your Website. Pay someone to create a site that is appealing. The home page should show off the sexiness of SageTV. Put big graphics of SageMC+Serenity (or any other sexy theme). Also, to make the site look active have a side bar with recent forum posts and news releases.

Add a blog. Be transparent like everyone else these days. Make the community feel like they are hop away from the top.

Create a news letter. Talk about bugs, features, and the future of SageTV (is there a future???)


2. Knowledge is power. It should not be locked up in the forums. Create a wiki as a place to keep the important knowledge found in the forums. Create a news letter for various topics. When SageTV has new support or features that with the topic shoot out an email.

3. Eye candy! As I mentioned big sexy graphics sells. You really need to pay someone to put some eye candy in SageTV. Give SageMC guys some $$$ and keep it as core. Port some XBMC skinz.

SageTV HD Theater is another ugly duckling. Sure the thing is AMAZING!!! It plays anything I throw at it. I connected to my SageTV MC without one hiccup. And I tweaked it to look good. But the off-the-shelf standalone player is AWEFULL. I sold it. For the sage price as SageTV HD Theater I purchased a netbook with ION. With it I had my eye candy. Now had SageTV paid attention to the user experience of eye candy and graphics I would have kept the device. Its the sad truth about all of SageTV products.


4. Stop the hacking. Why is it that any feature of SageTV I would like to use needs a hack for it to work? I purchased SageTV MC because it was the first to support HD-PVR. But what I didn't know was that the support was really BETA. I spent the next 6mo hacking at it. I also didn't know that most of the advertised features: converting media, placeshifting, comercial skipping ... was not support. And 1 year later the support is BETA imho. Again, SageTV website doesn't not mention this anywere in their product page or store. Yes, I can't go digging around the forums, but seriously, should I do that for a $99 software package? For MythTV & Media Portal I can understand the digging for information since its FREE.


5. Focus on what sets you apart. In my opinion this is: placeshifter and sagetv hd theater. (I also thing the media playing capabilities could be leveraged too) Placeshifter needs some work. SageTV HD Theater just needs some eye candy.

[Fuzzy]

???

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by J3G

I am about to give some advice to the SageTV owners (the ones I paid $99 to). I'm not sure how you will compete with the FREE Win Media Center 7. It has been hacked to allow for every feature SageTV offers.

It has?

It has cheap, fully functional extenders?
It has PC/software clients?
It can play DVD and Blu-ray rips on extenders?
It can "stream" the full interface and functionality across the internet?
It can run the backend functionality on a WHS or otherwise headless machine?
It can run on Linux or Mac?
It records without DRM issues?
etc
etc

Add a blog. Be transparent like everyone else these days. Make the community feel like they are hop away from the top.

Unfortunately they've been burned far too many times by that strategy.

Create a news letter. Talk about bugs, features, and the future of SageTV (is there a future???)

Did you miss Jeff's interview with Brent at Geektonic....

Oh yeah, and where's MS's blog, talk of future development? They said anything about softsled or Dish/DirecTV tuners? Or do they not tell us anything until after it's realeased....

SageTV HD Theater is another ugly duckling. Sure the thing is AMAZING!!! It plays anything I throw at it. I connected to my SageTV MC without one hiccup. And I tweaked it to look good. But the off-the-shelf standalone player is AWEFULL. I sold it. For the sage price as SageTV HD Theater I purchased a netbook with ION. With it I had my eye candy.

What eye candy can you have with the ION that you can't with an extender?

4. Stop the hacking. Why is it that any feature of SageTV I would like to use needs a hack for it to work? I purchased SageTV MC because it was the first to support HD-PVR. But what I didn't know was that the support was really BETA. I spent the next 6mo hacking at it.

That's 95% the HD PVR's "fault", it required "hacking", not Sage. It's just a matter of it taking 6 months for SageTV LLC and the community to learn the various settings/workarounds required for the HD PVR to work well (oh, and for Hauppauge to improve the drivers).

I also didn't know that most of the advertised features: converting media, placeshifting, comercial skipping ... was not support.

Converting media is built in out of the box, as is Placeshifting.

Commercial skipping isn't but nobody includes that for legal reasons.

And 1 year later the support is BETA imho. Again, SageTV website doesn't not mention this anywere in their product page or store. Yes, I can't go digging around the forums, but seriously, should I do that for a $99 software package? For MythTV & Media Portal I can understand the digging for information since its FREE.

Huh?

Have fun using "every feature" of Sage in WMC

[Brent]

Originally Posted by J3G

I'm not sure how you will compete with the FREE Win Media Center 7. It has been hacked to allow for every feature SageTV offers.

Um not really - far from it actually. Otherwise I'd be using it.

1. Your Website. Pay someone to create a site that is appealing. The home page should show off the sexiness of SageTV. Put big graphics of SageMC+Serenity (or any other sexy theme). Also, to make the site look active have a side bar with recent forum posts and news releases.

Agreed in part. I think they've actually made some good improvements on the site lately, but it still is missing that "pop".

Add a blog. Be transparent like everyone else these days. Make the community feel like they are hop away from the top.

Transparent like Microsoft Cmon, think about that one. I personally would rather handle that blog thing at GeekTonic But it wouldn't hurt to have a company blog I guess - Not sure how much it would help them in the long-run cause they sure as heck aren't going to share future features and such any more on the blog then anyplace else as that would be suicide...

Create a news letter. Talk about bugs, features, and the future of SageTV (is there a future???)

See my last comment. Yes there's a future - they've talked about it and they have pushed out more features in the last 9 months then Windows 7 did from the Vista version...

2. Knowledge is power. It should not be locked up in the forums. Create a wiki as a place to keep the important knowledge found in the forums. Create a news letter for various topics. When SageTV has new support or features that with the topic shoot out an email.

I agree an e-mail list is a good idea.

3. Eye candy! As I mentioned big sexy graphics sells. You really need to pay someone to put some eye candy in SageTV. Give SageMC guys some $$$ and keep it as core. Port some XBMC skinz.

They are working on some polish on their side. But it won't be so shiny that they can't run all of the features on the extenders like Microsoft has done to their extenders that don't work very well. And we have themes and add-ons from 3rd party devs that are working on that sort of thing as well.

SageTV HD Theater is another ugly duckling. Sure the thing is AMAZING!!! It plays anything I throw at it. I connected to my SageTV MC without one hiccup. And I tweaked it to look good. But the off-the-shelf standalone player is AWEFULL. I sold it. For the sage price as SageTV HD Theater I purchased a netbook with ION. With it I had my eye candy. Now had SageTV paid attention to the user experience of eye candy and graphics I would have kept the device. Its the sad truth about all of SageTV products.

I don't really agree with you on that one. Just read a review that touts the SageTV HD200 as a great standalone media player.

4. Stop the hacking. Why is it that any feature of SageTV I would like to use needs a hack for it to work? I purchased SageTV MC because it was the first to support HD-PVR. But what I didn't know was that the support was really BETA. I spent the next 6mo hacking at it. I also didn't know that most of the advertised features: converting media, placeshifting, comercial skipping ... was not support. And 1 year later the support is BETA imho. Again, SageTV website doesn't not mention this anywere in their product page or store. Yes, I can't go digging around the forums, but seriously, should I do that for a $99 software package? For MythTV & Media Portal I can understand the digging for information since its FREE.

The HD-PVR support on SageTV is the best of all of them that I've tried. Have you ever attempted to get it to work with the shiny, new Windows 7 yet? I have and it simply sucks big time. And try getting support from Microsoft anytime you have an issue with anything - I mean anything with your HTPC. Support doesn't exist. HTPC's in general require a lot of updates and betas to keep up with the multitudes of hardware and software changes going on. If you're not up to that you can always use the non-beta version of SageTV.


Don't get me wrong. I agree with some of your suggestions and all. I just disagree with your conclusion that Windows 7 and any of the others for that matter are ahead in any way. Matter of fact, I think SageTV is growing not the other way around.

[aairon]

Originally Posted by J3G

4. Stop the hacking. Why is it that any feature of SageTV I would like to use needs a hack for it to work? I purchased SageTV MC because it was the first to support HD-PVR. But what I didn't know was that the support was really BETA. I spent the next 6mo hacking at it. I also didn't know that most of the advertised features: converting media, placeshifting, comercial skipping ... was not support. And 1 year later the support is BETA imho. Again, SageTV website doesn't not mention this anywere in their product page or store. Yes, I can't go digging around the forums, but seriously, should I do that for a $99 software package? For MythTV & Media Portal I can understand the digging for information since its FREE.

I couldn't agree more, I purchased beta software

[Brent]

Originally Posted by aairon

I couldn't agree more, I purchased beta software

Nope, you purchased HTPC software which is complex and powerful. That's your 3rd post really?
Are you just having problems with the EPG or is it more than that? Is SageTV your first HTPC software?

[aairon]

Originally Posted by Brent

Nope, you purchased HTPC software which is complex and powerful. That's your 3rd post really?
Are you just having problems with the EPG or is it more than that? Is SageTV your first HTPC software?

Rather then Hijack this persons thread I will post my issues in my own threads, yes I am stuill gathering notes so that we will all be on the same page.
I only was commenting that I have this impression of this product also.
Now if you wan't to play the "you don't have enough posts on this forum to matter one "
I don't play that, but thanks for the invite, you can fish elsewhere, I really didn't think adults played that post count game anymore?.

[JetreL]

This thread is flame-bait no matter how you look at it...

Originally Posted by MitchSchaft

He was refurring to the fact that you haven't bothered posting, asking for help in the past. So why post in a thread like this?

It took me two reads to catch that too..

[MitchSchaft]

A lot of us moved over from windows media center. I speant a few years hangin out at thegreenbutton.com. I don't miss anything about the windows media center experience.

Now if you wan't to play the "you don't have enough posts on this forum to matter one "

He was refurring to the fact that you haven't bothered posting, asking for help in the past. So why post in a thread like this? lol

[koan00]

7MC has its own issues such as lack of decent extender device other than Xbox. One of the big things keeping me away from 7MC is the lack of a free Netflix for extenders. We watch quite a bit of streamed netflix, and I think it's pretty lame you need to have an Xbox Live Gold account to stream to the extenders. PlayOn > Xbox live gold montly fees IMO.

I hear you on #4 though. As a new user of sage it is quite hard weeding through the outdated sitckies and other information that no longer applies to the 3rd party addons. I think a little documentation house keeping could go a long way though.

[J3G]

sorry, not wanting it to be flame bate. Please keep this constructive people.

I also moved from MCE. I had been using the OTA Fusion5 to get full 1080p HDTV. AND I had it streaming to my xbox 360. This was in 2005. I was excited for the future. Then I moved out of reach of OTA so I searched for a replacement. I moved to SageTV after they were first to support HD-PVR.

I'll admit I would prob have given up by now if it were not for Geektonic. He shows us how to "pimp out" SageTV to be what we all want it to be. But pimping out SageTV is a delicate process.

Anyways, anyone want a wiki for collaboration? I am exhausted with traveling around in the forums. I can host one if needed.

Only other solution I can think of is to pay Geektonic as my consultant

[Hyrules]

Fortunately or unfortunatly chose your poison... I keep coming back to sage. I`ve tried many Media Center software and SageTv is the only one filling "almost" every of my needs. Sure media center 7 is appealing but having it to behave like sage is a hell of a hacking frenzy. XBMC is very nice "sexy like he says" graphics as well but the dev had the "brilliant idea" of have their own player which doesnt uses codecs. (Oh it because XBMC is cross platform.. duh sage is and is able to use codecs) Wonderfull if you run your HTPC on a Quad core otherwise you will cry when you will want to watch HD content on a ION dual core. ( note that I have tried without succes skip as hell) So there are like 30 or 40 HTPC software out there none of them coming close to SageTv. So you end up with sage. Not as sexy visually as the others out there but guess what it get the job done. I want a simple gui that can display the list of song and movies i have and play them properly( hell I dont need to see every darn cover of every album i have and neither movie covers) I want a simple folder listing. Sage does that. Media center unfortunatly doesnt simply do it and XBMC well the only flaw it has is his player like i've said before. So all thing said, i prefer functionnality over sexyness of gui.

[J3G]

#3 SageTV HD Theater is the best standalone, network, and SageTV player. Hands down. I sold mine to my buddy who loves it. I mainly sold it so I could tinker with Atom+ION setup. I'm too much an eye candy guy. The menu graphics could use polish.

[J3G]

@Hyrules about the hacking, that is kind of my point. I'm always reading the forums to hack together my SageTV. I'll also put the blame on the HD-PVR. But in the last 6mo its been solid. Also, its amazing but there is a build of XMBC with hardware accelerated decoding. But I just installed Media Portal on the Atom+ION and had it playing the 1080p dts mkv rips to near perfection.

@Brent good to know about HD-PVR with MC7. I was tempted to try it but I would prefer not to hack around anymore. I also some how missed the interview. I pictured the blog as a kind of news feed for: new updates, new releases, new hardware support, new themes...basically what you provide for me. So as long as you continue to provide it, then i'm happy.

I will say after re-installing everything this weekend, SageTV feels polished. A few of my annoyances with the hd-pvr are gone. It works really well. I also got the Client to work for the first time. It was even streaming AC3. I do have a bunch of questions of which I am avoiding to browse the forums again. I might be a jerk and start a new thread with my questions.

[Hyrules]

@J3G: Yes i`ve also been following the thread of XMBC hardware decoding version but it's useless if you have a ION Dual core or pentium 4 computer as decoder. The computer is not powerful enough to decode. I know i`ve tried them all. Maybe someday. For now i stick to my simple Asrock ION 330-BD with Win7 and SageTv. I get the job done perfectly.

[PGPfan]

I don't understand your logic. First you post

Originally Posted by J3G

I am about to give some advice to the SageTV owners (the ones I paid $99 to). I'm not sure how you will compete with the FREE Win Media Center 7. It has been hacked to allow for every feature SageTV offers. Here is some advice if you would like to see SageTV hit the big time.

and then you say

Originally Posted by J3G

4. Stop the hacking. Why is it that any feature of SageTV I would like to use needs a hack for it to work?

So, what are you saying here? How about some consistent logic to go with the flame bait!

-PGPfan

(my emphasis added)

[koan00]

I think his point is that common customizations should be rolled into the main product. I realize some probably can't be for IP reasons (BMT?) but others like possibly SageMC and comskip/dirmon2 probably could be.

[Brent]

Even though I'm told this post was the "toned down" version of his original, re-edited post, I'm inclined to give him some slack. I think he's been frustrated with the process he went through and was venting a bit. But he did have a few good suggestions as well.

My problem with posts/threads like this is:

1. There is no one perfect HTPC for everyone.
2. My experience setting up my HTPC might have been perfectly easy and everything worked fine, but the next guy may have one little difference on his setup that caused him problems. That difference can paint the impression of that HTPC software forever.
3. Mixing a "here's some suggestions for the company" post with a the title "Is SageTV alive? Media Center 7 eating its lunch now?" is sometime touchy and always flamebait to be honest.

I for one didn't take offense from it by any means. I don't agree with some of the conclusions, but hey - thats why we call it a forum. We all have the chance to throw in our differing or like opinions.

There are tons of folks who love Windows 7 MC and will do just fine with it. Others (myself included) can't get around the negatives - and yes I know SageTV has its negatives as well

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by J3G

Anyways, anyone want a wiki for collaboration? I am exhausted with traveling around in the forums. I can host one if needed.

I've tried a few wiki's recently, looking through the ubuntu wiki and some of the osx86 wikis. IMO, they're no better than forums, in some ways they're worse. Sometimes info is a little easier to find, but all too often it's out of date, and can lead you down a stray path.

Originally Posted by J3G

#3 SageTV HD Theater is the best standalone, network, and SageTV player. Hands down. I sold mine to my buddy who loves it. I mainly sold it so I could tinker with Atom+ION setup. I'm too much an eye candy guy. The menu graphics could use polish.

What "eye candy" can you get on an ION that you can't on the HD200?

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by stanger89

What "eye candy" can you get on an ION that you can't on the HD200?

Even more pressing for me is, what ION Netbook can you get for $200? Hey says...

For the sage price as SageTV HD Theater I purchased a netbook with ION.