HD-PVR Stops Responding ~Once/Day

[OldPCGUY]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Interesting idea. Next time my HD-PVR crashes I'll see if simply unplugging and plugging back in the USB cable fixes it. I've always just turned off and back on the HD-PVR.

If that really brings the HD-PVR back up, and if an application can actually force a USB power reset, that seems like a really good way of dealing with HD-PVR crashes. I'm not sure Sage always detects HD-PVR crashes though. I sometimes see the resets in the system messages, but often my HD-PVR would lock up and I wouldn't see anything about it in the system messages.

Most of the time I can get the Video stream from the HDPVR again just by unplugging and replugging, but sometimes that does not work and I have to power cycle the unit.

Doing some research on the Web yesterday I downloaded a Python USB driver but it did not work at all however, reading through the code I did see a disconnect and reconnect command. But the protocol for establishing a USB link looks to be very complicated.

I am not sure I will be able to get this to work. I think we need a programmer with USB experience.

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by OldPCGUY

Most of the time I can get the Video stream from the HDPVR again just by unplugging and replugging, but sometimes that does not work and I have to power cycle the unit.

If that is the case, then I will explore Eric3a's reset method with sagealert and a remote power outlet. I have an IR power outlet coming soon.

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by eric3a

Not sure I can agree with that logic. The drivers of the HDPVRs do not appear to only install on the computer.

Instead the HDPVR driver intalls appear to be flashing/modifying the firmware of the unit. If the firmware of the HDPVR is poorly coded, or if didn't install correctly because the installer is poorly coded and as a result the firmware is corrupted, then what you might end up with is an HDPVR software failure. A simple reset of the unit makes it work again.

There is plenty of stand-alone electronic equipment that needs the occasional reset to work properly. So a need for reset isn't a necessary indication of hardware failure.

Also, if only the hardware was at fault, why would my units now work? They are the same that used to fail regularly. Did the hardware repair itself?
The only change has been a downgrade of driver. I think the more likely reason they work now is that the units' firmware installed correctly this time or is one that works better with my Dish receiver.

Would 3 successive units with different revision numbers ALL have the same hardware fault? Unlikely in my opinion. So it points to firmware/driver problems I believe.

It could be that more recent drivers use portion of the hardware that is faulty when the earlier version do not, but I do not believe that to be the case.

Reading the various posts, there appear to be plenty of people who reported issues similar to mine (gradual loss of audio synch until failure). I had a couple people report lock-ups at set times also on the Snapstream forum.

I believe Hauppauge take RMAs easily because they know nothing is wrong with their hardware, and they can easily reflash the firmware in-house and loose very little in the process while keeping customers happy.
I believe your RMA return to Hauppauge is my newly re-flashed RMA return from them!

Eric

Your experience has been much different than mine. I agree though it *could* be firmware related… the only reason I doubt that is why wouldn’t Hauppauge have fixed that at some point?

I bought my first HD-PVR at launch, and despite trying every driver and on four entirely different PCs, I would always get the same lock-up behavior. And this was across my first three units (a C1, C2, and then D1).

It wasn't until I finally got my E1 that the lock-ups stopped 100% running one unit at the time. Nothing else in my system changed.

Note that I also have a second D1, which as the sole unit locked-up but always less frequently than the other problem units.

The E1 is flawless now, but I've come to realize that my second unit *still* locks-up occasionally. Because it's the second tuner, it just gets used less in general which is why I believe the lock-ups are less frequent now.

Also, you are forgetting that the original batch of HD-PVRs were nearly all defective, and it was verified by Hauppauge that it was a hardware issue (chips required wrong voltage as I recall). And what would the defective units do? Lock up, and you had to power cycle to get it going again, just like the issue for so many today.

The one thing I question… do you seriously think it’s cheaper and easier for Hauppauge to accept an RMA and then pay return shipping rather than just ask you to download the newest drivers and firmware? Frankly that’s absurd.

As to the rest of your post, I don’t take issue with your logic for the most part, we just disagree on the probabilities and sadly we can’t know because Hauppauge won’t help : (

Good luck for continued glitch-free recording!

[richie549]

This may not help anyone much, but I have also experienced Sage exceptions sometime during the evening while recording from HDPVR. Im still in the testing/setup phase so I have everything turned on.

Recently, I have not been watching shows through sage, and just have it recording. I found leaving the server at the menu, I got no errors, and currrently seems to be up for 4 days straight. When tuned to a show/live tv sage would generate an exception and HDPVR quit responding once or more an the evening.

Based on this if video isnt playing I am assuming the decoder isnt running. Currently, I am using DIVX H.264 to watch HiDef. Im going to try switching to ffdshow LIBAV??? to determine if the stability issues with watching live tv is better. Im just trying to get a base line. Can I do stable recording recordings?

Right now, I have confidence sage is recording right over several days (without watching TV). Im turning on video playing to go back a validate the daily shutdown issue. Then switching decoders ffdshow and maybe some commercially available ones PowerDVD and simular.

As of right now Im pointing my finger at the decoder. As watching on another machine through Sage Client I would also get exceptions raised. Initially thinking it was my a slow server for h.264, I got a new machine to remove the weakest link.

My next thought would be at sage itself, perhaps a defect watching h.264 over long periods or performing alot of channel switching.....

I'll keep yall posted...

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by richie549

This may not help anyone much, but I have also experienced Sage exceptions sometime during the evening while recording from HDPVR. Im still in the testing/setup phase so I have everything turned on.

Recently, I have not been watching shows through sage, and just have it recording. I found leaving the server at the menu, I got no errors, and currrently seems to be up for 4 days straight. When tuned to a show/live tv sage would generate an exception and HDPVR quit responding once or more an the evening.

Based on this if video isnt playing I am assuming the decoder isnt running. Currently, I am using DIVX H.264 to watch HiDef. Im going to try switching to ffdshow LIBAV??? to determine if the stability issues with watching live tv is better. Im just trying to get a base line. Can I do stable recording recordings?

Right now, I have confidence sage is recording right over several days (without watching TV). Im turning on video playing to go back a validate the daily shutdown issue. Then switching decoders ffdshow and maybe some commercially available ones PowerDVD and simular.

As of right now Im pointing my finger at the decoder. As watching on another machine through Sage Client I would also get exceptions raised. Initially thinking it was my a slow server for h.264, I got a new machine to remove the weakest link.

My next thought would be at sage itself, perhaps a defect watching h.264 over long periods or performing alot of channel switching.....

I'll keep yall posted...

If I understand correctly;
1) You get four days of no HD-PVR lockups as long as the server is recording only and not playing back anything.
2) When viewing Live TV at the server, the HD-PVR will lock up 1 to 2 times an evening.
Is that correct?

Can you make the HD-PVR lock up when you try?

Will the HD-PVR reset by unplugging and replugging the USB cable only?

Have you seen the thread about "HD PVR Java Heap size"?

What is you CPU usage when playing Live TV?

[pawn]

I always had HDPVR lockups, but never once per day (at least after I got past an initial testing stage where I finally found a combination of computer/ir blaster/drivers and other settings that were reasonably dependable). I would say I averaged one lockup every 1 to 2 weeks. Not excruciating, but always something that grated on me.

I have 2 HDPVR's and I recently decided to split them up: one on the main sage server and the other on a network encoder server. Each has it's own usbuirt. i had one lockup a week after I tried this (which worried me quite a bit). But I haven't had a lockup since (about 3 weeks now I think). Crossing my fingers that I have licked this.

That said, I'll never be 100% sure where the success comes from, because I also took some advice I found on these forums and uninstalled sage and all hauppage drivers/software on both machines and started fresh by installing the hdpvr software first. I even abandoned my 6 year old wiz.bin and installed a shiny new copy of the latest sage software. I also took other steps like turning my hdpvr's on the side so they stay cooler and I'm using the 1.5.6 drivers instead of the older ones I was always used. I locked my sat receivers to 720p a long time ago. Who knows what the exact magic is that makes these things stop locking up, but one or more of the solutions above seem to have worked for me (again, fingers crossed).

[eric3a]

Your experience has been much different than mine. I agree though it *could* be firmware related… the only reason I doubt that is why wouldn’t Hauppauge have fixed that at some point?

In my opinion because the troubleshooting is incredibly difficult: It seems from the various polls around the web that HDPVRs work for the most part.
It's not that the firmware/hardware don't work as such, it's that they don't work in some combinations of hardware (receiver and computer) and some combinations of programming. Case in point: A number of driver releases specifically address the unit's firmware and which receivers they seek to improve compatibility with.

The one thing I question… do you seriously think it’s cheaper and easier for Hauppauge to accept an RMA and then pay return shipping rather than just ask you to download the newest drivers and firmware? Frankly that’s absurd.

Actually the last Hauppauge tech rep pretty much told me that's what they're doing. He said I was welcomed to RMA my unit again, but they were getting plenty of RMAs and didn't find anything wrong with them, so they were just reflashing and sending them back out.

I realize it's absurd, but it is less so if you take into account that:
-They did have faulty hardware earlier, so they still want to check RMAs in case it trully is a hardware failure... But -per Hauppauge rep- they're not finding anymore hardware failures now. But you can see they'd want to check.
-Their driver/firmware install software is crap. Nothing new: They've always been bad at writing drivers. So they'd rather RMA than have the user fight it.

At the end of the day, most of this is speculative, and the most important is that we all find a way to make our units work within SageTV!!

Eric

[richie549]

Originally Posted by jerryt

If I understand correctly;
1) You get four days of no HD-PVR lockups as long as the server is recording only and not playing back anything.
2) When viewing Live TV at the server, the HD-PVR will lock up 1 to 2 times an evening.
Is that correct?

Can you make the HD-PVR lock up when you try?

Will the HD-PVR reset by unplugging and replugging the USB cable only?

Have you seen the thread about "HD PVR Java Heap size"?

What is you CPU usage when playing Live TV?

1. Correct. Recording HDPVR and PVR500. Three channels concurrently with intelligent recording enabled. This is so I can record as much as possible.
2. When I Watch Live TV. I get intermittent crashes sometimes in middle of movies some changing channels.

3. Have not tried to lock up PVR. Just turn watch tv and it crashes on its
own.
4. When crashing I must restart Sage and cycling the HDPVR power.

5. I have to check the Heap size...

6. 30-35%. AMD Athlon II X4 620 Propus 2.6GHz - 4gb ram - ATI Radeon HD 4650 - 3TB Drive.

This is a new install using XP 32-bit with the latest HDPVR 1.5.6.1 drivers using USBUIRT.

[ewelin]

So I just had one of my units lockup on me... I went down into the basement and instead of powercycling the unit like i normally do, I simply removed the USB cord fromt he PC, waited 10 seconds then put it back in. This seemed to allow this unit to recover, but the 2nd unit locked up not 2 minutes later. I'm not sure if it's just luck that it happened then or if it's related.

I'll continue with the USB testing for now when the next few lockups happen. I'm getting about 1-2 per day on one or both devices. I'll be sure to report back my findings.

I'm still running drivers 1.5.6 and haven't tried to downgrade to 1.0.5.301 in a couple days. Last time I tried those drivers they didn't work with my system well as the recordings got broken into dozen of files and there were significant playback issues. I may downgrade again this afternoon if I find the time and see if it results in different results.

If I can't figure it out, I did order a couple of INSTEON ApplianceLincs which will work with my home automation so I'll be able to power cycle the units remotely. Eventually I hope to either have my home automation check SageTV for error message and cycle them or have SJQ check for error messages and tell my home automation software to cycle.

[eric3a]

Eventually I hope to either have my home automation check SageTV for error message and cycle them or have SJQ check for error messages and tell my home automation software to cycle.

SageAlert does a great job at catching errors and you can run bat files on detection of errors.
Eric

[ewelin]

yeah both sage and my home automation software (HCA) provide great APIs... so I can either have HCA call sage's API and check for error messages every x minutes or I can have sagealert or sage job queue check for errors every x minutes and have it call HCA's api... just a matter of figuring out which way I want to code it.

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by eric3a

I realize it's absurd, but it is less so if you take into account that:
-They did have faulty hardware earlier, so they still want to check RMAs in case it trully is a hardware failure... But -per Hauppauge rep- they're not finding anymore hardware failures now. But you can see they'd want to check.
-Their driver/firmware install software is crap. Nothing new: They've always been bad at writing drivers. So they'd rather RMA than have the user fight it.

At the end of the day, most of this is speculative, and the most important is that we all find a way to make our units work within SageTV!!

Eric

Interesting. Well, one customer rep/tech statement can never be taken as company position, but assuming it's true guess they feel that's working for them and is easier than trying to fix the real problem.

I wonder when they get the units back and test them how rigourously they are testing? It'd be easy to try it out for a few hours and then give it a clean bill of health.

If it's really an issue that can be solved with a flash, I just don't understand why the flash couldn't be done with their latest drivers.

Regardless, best of luck in trying to figure out exactly what the problem is. I'm not sure you'll get there since many have tried and failed in the past, which implies it's nothing easy to nail down. Hopefully your home automation will make it possible to automatically reset the unit which is pretty cool.

I'm bumming that one of my units is having lockups... at least with the USB-UIRT I don't have to reboot the whole server everytime it happens (IR blaster would fail after HD-PVR power-cycle).

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by ewelin

So I just had one of my units lockup on me... I went down into the basement and instead of powercycling the unit like i normally do, I simply removed the USB cord fromt he PC, waited 10 seconds then put it back in. This seemed to allow this unit to recover, but the 2nd unit locked up not 2 minutes later. I'm not sure if it's just luck that it happened then or if it's related.

I'll continue with the USB testing for now when the next few lockups happen. I'm getting about 1-2 per day on one or both devices. I'll be sure to report back my findings.

I'm still running drivers 1.5.6 and haven't tried to downgrade to 1.0.5.301 in a couple days. Last time I tried those drivers they didn't work with my system well as the recordings got broken into dozen of files and there were significant playback issues. I may downgrade again this afternoon if I find the time and see if it results in different results.

If I can't figure it out, I did order a couple of INSTEON ApplianceLincs which will work with my home automation so I'll be able to power cycle the units remotely. Eventually I hope to either have my home automation check SageTV for error message and cycle them or have SJQ check for error messages and tell my home automation software to cycle.

Have you, or anyone else on this thread, tried running the HD-PVR for a period of time WITHOUT using any SageTV software? It appears from reading here that nobody thinks Sage is responsible for any of the problems, where it's always been my experience that hardware is less likely to crash than software is.

If I had two units, I'd run one for a week or two and just leave the Total Media Extreme app open without starting any Sage software and see what happens. If someone's already done that, can you point me to the thread?
I've been told that Placeshifter can't run with 1080 files. That would be a software problem, no?

Also, in detailed setup: advanced, there's a setting for "select user interface theme". Could that cause crashes if it's left in 1080? I was told that Placeshifter CAN deal with 720p files. Is there anything similar with the interface then (I don't know, because I am not a software engineer, hence the questions).

And where do the video cards drivers come into play? There are soooo many software issues with trying to run a Sage system. it's no wonder more people don't switch to HD Tivo and Cablecards.

I am just like you - five weeks of crashes with no apparent rhyme nor reason. Sometimes it's during a channel change, sometimes during a recording, sometimes during live tv, sometimes when the Sage interface on the server is in standby, and sometimes at the top and bottom of the hour when the SageTV tvguide interface rolls over to the next time-slot listing.

My good old PVR-150 was a rock compared to the HD-PVR. My system is new and apparently what many people suggested would be a flawless system, yet, the SageTV/HD-PVR combo can't even go a day without crashing. The solution is always the same: shut down Sage; power down HD-PVR; power-up HD-PVR; re-start Sage. For two products that are cross-advertised on SageTV's web site, it's frustrating we have to go through this.

[HelenWeathers]

tvmaster2, you should take a trip down memory lane:
http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...ad.php?t=34506

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

tvmaster2, you should take a trip down memory lane:
http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...ad.php?t=34506

HAHA - thanks Helen, another 5,000 pages of reading for products that are released as "working". I notice you're running Windows 7 with Intel. I am running XP with AMD. Do you feel there was ONE definitive thing that made your install reliable? I am tired of throwing good money after bad - time as well. If there was a consensus that Windows 7 made the difference, I'd go there - but I can't find those threads. Thanks for another angle of info ............ and on it goes

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Do you feel there was ONE definitive thing that made your install reliable? I am tired of throwing good money after bad - time as well. If there was a consensus that Windows 7 made the difference, I'd go there - but I can't find those threads. Thanks for another angle of info ............ and on it goes

My XP SP3 intall ran for a year without a hitch with both HD PVRs. I do power cycle my entire system (cpu, stbs, hdpvrs etc.) once a day for a few hours, but I had always done that with BeyondTV and MCE.

It took me a while to get stability and only really achieved it with a headless server, moving cards around on the motherboard and trying different USB ports... until I got the right combo for my particular system.

I feel rather lucky to have gotton reasonable results in just a couple of months. Many (like Chriscic) spent a lot more time getting there than I did and there are many others who are not there yet or have just given up on the HD PVR.

I believe 100% that the issues are with the HD PVRs. They are very touchy to clean video and audio signals both. And, let's face it, USB 2.0 was developed a long time ago and HiDef is still very new.

EDIT: I do like Win 7, but there was no pressing need for me to go there.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

My XP SP3 intall ran for a year without a hitch with both HD PVRs. I do power cycle my entire system (cpu, stbs, hdpvrs etc.) once a day for a few hours, but I had always done that with BeyondTV and MCE.

It took me a while to get stability and only really achieved it with a headless server, moving cards around on the motherboard and trying different USB ports... until I got the right combo for my particular system.

I feel rather lucky to have gotton reasonable results in just a couple of months. Many (like Chriscic) spent a lot more time getting there than I did and there are many others who are not there yet or have just given up on the HD PVR.

I believe 100% that the issues are with the HD PVRs. They are very touchy to clean video and audio signals both. And, let's face it, USB 2.0 was developed a long time ago and HiDef is still very new.

EDIT: I do like Win 7, but there was no pressing need for me to go there.

Great - thanks for the info. At times I suspected USB as the biggest problem, as there are times where the system (which is one month old using the latest Gigabyte MB) seems to choke on a random piece of video. What makes me suspicious about Sage is that Placeshifter can't handle the h.264 1080 files - so I am wondering how Sage can (the manual selection of codecs has something to do with it i imagine). Can you tell me what your detailed setup Video/Audio settings are (renderer's - decoders, etc.), as the various combinations have been voodoo for me.
thanks

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Can you tell me what your detailed setup Video/Audio settings are (renderer's - decoders, etc.), as the various combinations have been voodoo for me.
thanks

I only watch on my HD200s. Best additions to my system I ever made. Never used placeshifter.

[Taddeusz]

What recording level are people using on the HDPVR? I was using Best-H.264 but was annoyed with jumpy remote Placeshifter playback. A couple weeks ago I changed it to Great-H.264 and am pleased with the quality and Placeshifter playback. I think the bitrate was just too much for my system to transcode for Placeshifter and I my recordings are fixed at 720p. Plus, H.264 is supposed to have higher efficiency than MPEG2 so the 5.9GB/hr is probably a little bit of overkill considering that's about the rate used on OTA and QAM broadcasts.

What are your thoughts on the recording bitrate?

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

What recording level are people using on the HDPVR?... What are your thoughts on the recording bitrate.

I am using Best-H.264. I can see a difference on my larger TVs. I've never used Placeshifter for playback but what you say makes sense.