Goin' Gig....

[pjpjpjpj]

Simple noob question: I have a 10/100 connection in my server, "integrated" on the MB, but I want to get a Gigabit card. I have a PCI slot free. Are there any PC requirements - processor, RAM, various bus rates, etc. - that would restrict me from putting in a PCI Gigabit card? Or is everything "inside" a reasonably-new PC already passing info around faster than 1000 Mbps anyway?

Check my server specs in the sig below... anything else I need to check to see if a 10/100/1000 card would give me problems, or should it just be plug-n-play?

Thanks in advance.

[Djc208]

I have one in my server (a Dlink model I think) and it was pretty much plug and play. I can't verify it's capable of the full GB speeds but it's faster than the 10 MB connection on the MB and fast enough for all my needs.

I think the big downside is that as a PCI card it shares the data path with the rest of the bus and therefore can cause problems if trying to move large amounts of data around the PCI bus. Haven't personally demonstrated any problems but it doesn't mean there couldn't be.

[matt91]

I think that any PC that you're still using for a server can handle a gig PCI card.

You really have nothing to lose. Newegg has their least expensive PCI 10/100/1000 card for $8 + shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833180026

[pjpjpjpj]

I guess I should give an example... worst case in my system, I would have 4 HD ATSC streams coming in (if I was recording 4 HD shows at once on my 2 HDHRs), and then a max - and I can't see this happening for a long time if ever - of 3 HD streams out to 3 extenders.

My understanding - correct me if I am wrong - is that ATSC HD streams are typically around 20 Mbps each, with occasional peaks of around 25-28 Mbps (?) Being conservative, assume each stream is 25 Mbps, that would give me 175 Mbps for the video streams (4 in, 3 out = 7 x 25 = 175). So, with safety factors built in, I'd likely always be fine if I could cleanly move 250 Mbps.

This whole thing is being driven by the fact that my wife (in the new TV season, with some new shows she added) is finding several nights a week where there are 3 HD shows recording at once. That's 60-75 Mbps into the server, which means, at these times, we can't watch anything HD (another 20-25 Mbps out to an extender) without it bogging down the network (currently 100 Mbps) and causing hiccups.

Gigabit should solve it without a sweat, as long as (and this is why I ask), my old server PC can handle it.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by matt91

I think that any PC that you're still using for a server can handle a gig PCI card.

You really have nothing to lose. Newegg has their least expensive PCI 10/100/1000 card for $8 + shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833180026

Yeah, but I need a low profile one for my stupid server (though I notice that this one is small enough to fit a low-profile case if I remove the faceplate).

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Simple noob question: I have a 10/100 connection in my server, "integrated" on the MB, but I want to get a Gigabit card. I have a PCI slot free. Are there any PC requirements - processor, RAM, various bus rates, etc. - that would restrict me from putting in a PCI Gigabit card? Or is everything "inside" a reasonably-new PC already passing info around faster than 1000 Mbps anyway?

Well first, you should be able to put a gig-e card in your PC no problem.

The more complicated question is if your PC will really be able to fully utilize it. The answer to that is probably not. You really need PCI-X or PCIe to fully utilize GigE. PCI has about the same bandwidth as GigE, but that bandwidth is shared with everything else on the bus (tuners, HDDs, etc).

But that's really beside the point, you should still get a good boost in network performance with a GigE card.

Check my server specs in the sig below... anything else I need to check to see if a 10/100/1000 card would give me problems, or should it just be plug-n-play?

Just get a good card, ideally an Intel one.

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

My understanding - correct me if I am wrong - is that ATSC HD streams are typically around 20 Mbps each, with occasional peaks of around 25-28 Mbps (?)

FWIW, ATSC is allocated 19.4 Mbps for each mux, that's it. No average or peak, just 19.4Mpbs. The Actual subchannels are usually less than that since that 19.4 Mbps is usually spread over one HD and one or more SD subs..

This whole thing is being driven by the fact that my wife (in the new TV season, with some new shows she added) is finding several nights a week where there are 3 HD shows recording at once. That's 60-75 Mbps into the server, which means, at these times, we can't watch anything HD (another 20-25 Mbps out to an extender) without it bogging down the network (currently 100 Mbps) and causing hiccups.

Gigabit should solve it without a sweat, as long as (and this is why I ask), my old server PC can handle it.

It should, no problem.

[matt91]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

My understanding - correct me if I am wrong - is that ATSC HD streams are typically around 20 Mbps each, with occasional peaks of around 25-28 Mbps (?)

You'd need to check this (or wait for Stanger or others to comment). I think that this is for the whole stream, which since the HDHR firmware updates a year or so ago, stopped sending. They now send just the specific channel you need. I don't pay much attention to my bandwidth when recording/watching, but it's nowhere near the numbers you've quoted.

Edit: should have refreshed the thread before posting!

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well first, you should be able to put a gig-e card in your PC no problem.

The more complicated question is if your PC will really be able to fully utilize it. The answer to that is probably not. You really need PCI-X or PCIe to fully utilize GigE. PCI has about the same bandwidth as GigE, but that bandwidth is shared with everything else on the bus (tuners, HDDs, etc).

But that's really beside the point, you should still get a good boost in network performance with a GigE card.

(Just felt like some number crunching to back up Stranger's comment)

This, while he may not be able to get full Gigabit speeds out of the card due to potentially sharing the PCI Bus, it isn't likely he needs full gigabit as he seems to be needing ~80 Mbit/sec in and for outbound a ~60Mbit/sec to maybe a future need for 150Mbit/sec(some Blue Ray discs can peak at over 50Mbit/sec during playback if you try to do it over the network. For a total of 230Mbit/sec as the extreme upper limit and 140Mbit/sec being the more baseline number.

That should be a very sustainable data rate for a PCI Network card even if it is sharing the PCI Bus with 3 other devices(~264 Mbit/sec per PCI device if all are active). 4 other PCI devices becomes questionable(at ~211 Mbit/sec per PCI device if all are active) in a potential max usage situation, but more than adequate for the baseline. I also don't think he's going to be streaming 3 blue ray recordings which all happen to be running at peak data rates while recording 4 ATSC streams and at the same time having 5 fully active PCI cards anytime in the foreseeable future.

(Note for the less tech-literate: The PCI Bus is not the same bus as the PCI Express Bus, they use different technologies so PCI Express cards don't count against the PCI card count)

[Fuzzy]

there is another option to look at, and that is just adding another card, be it 100 or gig, and using it for the tuners OR the extenders... splitting them out. This will ensure there is always enough bandwidth for recording, as it won't have to be shared with playback.

[pjpjpjpj]

Thanks, everyone, above, for the great explanations. I kinda thought it wouldn't be a problem, and looks like my (uneducated) gut was right. I have not even gotten into Blu-Ray yet (probably won't for a long time), so I didn't even mention that, but I did know it could be around 50 Mbps. So until I someday make the move to BD, Monedeath, I won't be anywhere near that peak example you give! (but even so, a Gig card should handle it)

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

there is another option to look at, and that is just adding another card, be it 100 or gig, and using it for the tuners OR the extenders... splitting them out. This will ensure there is always enough bandwidth for recording, as it won't have to be shared with playback.

I thought of that, but my switch isn't near my server. The HDHRs and extenders run to a switch, and a single cable runs from there to my server. Plus, the cables from the HDHRs to the switch are too short to reach the server, so I would have to replace them entirely - a cable-pulling nightmare that I would not want to go through again! In light of the general consensus above that a Gig card will cure my ills (and then some), it's the easiest way to go.

[stanger89]

With GigE so cheap these days, IMO it's better to just upgrade than to try and extend the life for work around the limitations of 100TX.

FWIW, you won't even notice the limitations of GigE on PCI unless you've got a fast RAID array or are doing memory to memory benchmarks. Most single HDDs can't come close to filling a GigE link.

[stevech]

I did a lot of testing with gigE.
Conclusions: Windows shares, overhead is so high that only a very fast dual core or better PC can get much above 100BT rates. And both ends have to be such.

Using test software, memory to memory, bypassing windows, I did get up to about 800Mbps with AMD dual core 4200 PCs. But that's not a useful case, in the real world.
With one generation older PCs, I could not get to 100Mbps (using max IP packet sizes, big windows, and most tricks I could think of).

gigE via a PCI bus card is seriously wounded at the starting gate.

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by stevech

I did a lot of testing with gigE.
Conclusions: Windows shares, overhead is so high that only a very fast dual core or better PC can get much above 100BT rates. And both ends have to be such.

Not entirely true in this particular case.

The application he is going for only needs Gigabit(well, only roughly 140Mbit (156 Mbit if you go by the 90% rule for networks) according to his currently described network use) capability between the server and the switch. From there, it is the switch doing the work splitting the data streams out to the various other devices and combining them back together again on the way back to the server.

As long as the Gigabit switch/router he's (presumably) using isn't of incredibly poor quality, no wiring problems(bad cable run, or bad connector), and his server is able to handle those kinds of data rates... He should have more than enough bandwidth to work with for his purpose.

As long as he already has a Gigabit switch and at least a Fast Cat5e between it and the server, the Gigabit NIC solution will come in at comparable or less cost than the 100 Mbit networking (2x) solutions could provide. (New switch purchases, new/replacement cable runs changes the math, but I think most people would consider Gigabit networking upgrades to be something they were going to do eventually anyhow)

If it turns out his server is still I/O constrained, then he knows it is time for some further server hardware upgrades, and that the 100 Mbit networking solution(going 2x) wouldn't have worked either. Until that bridge is crossed however, there is no point in going there unless he simply wants to spend money and upgrade his other server hardware for the sake of upgrading. (Which isn't to say that can't be fun in its own right)

[DigitalMan]

If I were you, I'd check to see if the onboard 10/100 adapter is on a separate bus from your PCI slots. If so you can give yourself a little more elbow room.