Another Digital TV Tuner problem...

[ybrew]

I'm not sure what the problem is.

I've got 6 devices connected to my attic antenna.

I've got the hd homerun (dual tuner), two dvico usb gold 5 tuners, and two digital set-top boxes - the $40 versions.

The digital set-top boxes tune my channels perfectly. I can only output via RF, so I relegate them to my least used channels, but the quality is great. They're connected to my old hauppauge PCI cards.

My HDHR and dvico usb devices are having a hell of a time tuning channels. One HDHR can tune 6 or so channels. The other one can tune a few more, but I can't get abc, cbs, nbc or fox reliably with any of those tuners. This stuff used to work a month or two ago.

I've reinstalled sage - fresh install. I've done channel scans inside sage and with the HDHR setup program (same result). I don't have any scn files anywhere. I do have the .frq files. I've deleted and rerun. I've stopped the sage service, restarted it, restarted the PC.

I'm basically out of ideas.

I don't think the HDHR tuners were ever great, but I was able to reliably tune in most of my channels in the past. Now, nada.

What am I missing? What else should I be trying? Do I replace all 4 of these tuners?

I've also connected my cable straight from the antenna bypassing my splitter. No change. The splitter works fine going to my set top boxes.

I'm gonna check the set-top boxes in a minute just to make sure all my channels really are coming in perfectly.

This is starting to get frustrating not being able to record any HD.

[ybrew]

I checked my digital set top boxes.

I can tune all channels no problems. It's connected with the same splitter to
the same antenna.

With my set top boxes, I can get a 30% signal strength and 1-2% signal quality and still have a good picture. ABC, CBS & NBC are 100% signal strength & quality. Fox is 100% strength, 50% quality.

the hdhr & the dvico can tune ABC occassionally, but the pic is extremely choppy. PBS is pretty good. Everything else is crap.

I'm at a loss.

My next step is going to be removing the HDHR software from the sage server and try connecting/scanning from my laptop or another PC.

[ybrew]

Originally Posted by ybrew

My next step is going to be removing the HDHR software from the sage server and try connecting/scanning from my laptop or another PC.

Done.

At this point, I think I've got a bad HDHR (and dvico) tuners.

The HDHR was never forgiving of bad signal strength (is that normal?) but I was able to get a good signal. I think the tuners are going out and I can't even good a god signal anymore.

[paulbeers]

Okay, first off you don't have to remove the software from your Sage Server in order to do a scan with your laptop for the HDHR since they are network encoders (granted I wouldn't try tuning with Sage while working on it from your laptop), but you have already removed the software so I guess this advice is too late.

You say you are getting 100% signal and 100% quality on several of the channels, is this from the HDHomerun Software?

Have you considered that (at least as far as the HDHomeruns are concerned) that maybe your issue is with your network (maybe the switch they are on?).

[Fuzzy]

you can't really go by the % signal strength meters on any device. They are all based on their own arbitrary scales, and comparing between the 'strength' on your HDHomeRun, and that of the STB is pointless. Really, the only way to truly check this would be with a real signal meter on each port of the splitter.

How are you splitting your signals? Keep in mind that each time you split the signal in two, the signal strength drops by MORE than half. So minimize the number of splits between source and tuner.

[ybrew]

I've got a high quality powered 8-way splitter. I'll have to look at the model.
I've only got one splitter. I've tried it powered and non-powered. I've tried it with an extra amplifier and without the extra amplifier.

I'm not necessarily comparing the strength between the different devices more so than saying some devices are displaying a fantastic pic on 50+ channels while the hd homerun fails to display a non-choppy pic on even one channel.

I had not considered my network. I'm using a netgear gig router. I also have that connected to an 8 port gig switch. I will disconnect the 8 port switch and my cable modem from the router and try a different port on the netgear router just to verify it's not a network issue.

But I don't think it's a signal or splitter issue because I removed the splitter from the equation last night with no change and other devices through the splitter are performing flawlessly.

[ybrew]

Thinking about this some more...

I could believe my network could cause stuttering. (I don't think it is, but I think it'd be something valid to check)

But it wouldn't cause tuning issues, would it? When doing a scan on the HDHR using the HDHR software, it should find more than PBS channels if my other tuners are able to pull in 50+ stations. I could see if the HDHR pulled in 50 stations and I had bad stuttering - at that point, I should check my network to make sure I've got the bandwidth, but for tuning, it's either my antenna (works great with other tuners and also tried a different antenna), my splitter (works great w/ other tuners, and tested without the splitter and same result), my in-line amp (tested with & without), or the tuners on the HDHR.

Everything used to work OK (not great, but better than this). I went in my attic to look at the antenna to make sure no critters messed with the wiring or anything else up there. None of that occurred.

[Fuzzy]

Does this happen on both halves of your HDHomeRun?

[ybrew]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Does this happen on both halves of your HDHomeRun?

Yep.

I've scanned both and I get about 4-5 channels on one of them and 7 or 8 on the other.
Quality is crap regardless.
I used both VLC and the HD TV Player on my other PC (dual core e6750, 2gb ram) and had horrible stuttering (unwatchable) on PBS (the best of my stations).

I was able to get one of ABCs sub-stations and another couple of local access. No major networks.

(I did open a support case with silicondust last night.)

[ybrew]

I was reading on the silicondust forums so tried something else.

Disabled the windows firewall.

rescanned.

No change.
tuner 0 found 7 channels.
tuner 1 found 8 channels.

Basically no change. Got my PBS and my ABC Substations. that's about it.

[SWKerr]

I would remove the splitter for testing purposes and run the line directly to one tuner on the HDHR.

When you tune with the HDHR software what is the signal strength of the stations that you inconsistently. Does the strength go up and down erratically?

Have you tried rotating the antenna?

Do you live in an area with tall buildings, trees or hills?

[ybrew]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

I would remove the splitter for testing purposes and run the line directly to one tuner on the HDHR.

When you tune with the HDHR software what is the signal strength of the stations that you inconsistently. Does the strength go up and down erratically?

Have you tried rotating the antenna?

Do you live in an area with tall buildings, trees or hills?

I did that - removed the splitter and amp - in one of my previous tests.
I don't recall exact results, but I don't think they were good.

Silicondust looked at my initial logs and said "The logs show 100% signal strength on every channel. What is your antenna/amplifier setup? Since you appear to be located within 10 miles of the transmitters, it's quite possible that you're overloading the amplifier and/or the tuner which is causing the reception problems."

I'm going to be doing some more scans tonight. (got home real late last night). My best scan so far was with my inline amp removed and the powered splitter changed to non-powered. I've tried antenna directly to the tuner, rabbit ears, etc. I'll do a bunch of scans tonight though and log results of each individual scan.

To answer specific questions - no tall buildings. trees or hills. Strength jumps pretty erratically. Signal strength may jump from 0-80%, at least as I see it.

I'm not sure I could rotate the attic antenna. I had a friend help me install it, and we spent a good deal of time pointing it the right way.
It's cramped up there and I'm not sure there's room to move it around. It certainly wouldn't be easy.

Scans I plan tonight:

Another scan with inline amp & powered splitter
Remove inline amp - scan
add inline amp & remove power from splitter - scan.
remove inline amp. Remove power from splitter. Scan.
attic antenna directly to HDHR. Scan.
rabbit ears to powered splitter with inline amp. Scan
rabbit ears w/ powered splitter, no inline amp. Scan
rabbit ears, no powered splitter, no inline amp. Scan
rabbit ears directly to HDHR. Scan

I'll log all of my tests, the time I start & the order I do them in so silicondust can review.

obviously they're onto something. Fox has always been my worst station. Last night I was able to get fox after doing one of the above scans (but i didn't log anything last night)

The only thing that bothers me - Back in August, I was able to get abc, cbs, fox & nbc with my current antenna setup. I did upgrade firmware in that time. Can firmware be downgraded? (that would be a last resort)

I'm thinking I may need some kind of non-powered noise filter on my line.

[ybrew]

One other thing I'll do as well...

My antenna probably won't work in my closet too well (rabbit ears) but I do have about 4 or 5 coax lines running up in my attic, so I can move the rabbit ears up there on a new cable, and I can put that on a separate splitter for just the HD Homerun if necessary.

Bottom line is I've got a lot of testing I need to do. I'm fairly confident I can get this working. Still don't understand why I need to change the setup now, but I'm not worrying about that.

[Fuzzy]

I didn't realize you were so close to the transmitters. It certainly does sound like your signals are too strong. the HDHR, I don't think, as as aggressive AGC as some consumer devices, since more users have weak signal problems than strong. Really the best thing to do would be to use a signal meter and install the appropriate attenuation to get the strength into an acceptable band. If you've got some spare cables and splitters available (most of us do), you could add then in a chain one at a time until you get good reception. Each 2-way is about a -3.2db attenuation.

[ybrew]

buy at radioshack i'm assuming, right (for the attenuators). I've got plenty of splitters and cables - way too many of both.

I did testing tonight. I've got my rabbit ears in the attic. The best I've been able to get is with the inline amp but the splitter is not powered, removing the attic antenna out of the picture.

Of my 6 HD tuners, the 2 zinwell set top boxes have been rock solid the entire time. The Bluebird (dvico) usb tuners now get all my major locals.

The HD Homerun tunes more channels. I get ABC and I get 12 or more channels tuned in, but almost everything is still unwatchable. ABC was showing single going from 40-100 and back constantly.

Why is the HD Homerun so much more finicky than other HD tuners?

[Fuzzy]

well, like i said, the HDHomeRun is actually better than most tuners for getting WEAK signals (which is MOST people's problems). They seem to have errored that direction, and your really strong signals are throwing it for a loop. Still, strong signals are easy to knock down. As for where to get the attenuators, I'm not really sure if radio shack stocks them. Plenty of online shops sell them, and most specialty electronics stores will have them. As i said, you can pass the signal through just a normal dime-a-dozen splitter and that will attenuate it about 3db each time.

[ybrew]

I'll try the splitters first, but I think I should also get a signal meter.

All the one's I've seen online so far are satellite signal meters. Would that work? or do I need one for a digital OTA (are they different?)

thanks

[ybrew]

Borrowing a signal meter from a friend tomorrow
I did do some simple tests with a splitter and had decent results
abc came in good - not great but better
but also got about 20 or so channels

I might be able to get this fixed this weekend.

[ybrew]

Originally Posted by ybrew

Borrowing a signal meter from a friend tomorrow
I did do some simple tests with a splitter and had decent results
abc came in good - not great but better
but also got about 20 or so channels

I might be able to get this fixed this weekend.

I've got 4 splitters (in addition to my 8-way powered splitter) all connected to some rabbit ears in my attic).

I'm not sure why this used to work with just my 8-way powered splitter with inline amp connected to a much bigger, more powerful attic antenna, but nevermind that.

With 4 splitters, I'm getting a good signal on ABC. UPN is coming in consistently (unwatchable, but finally getting it recognized). And I've got tons of other locals access channels.

I think I need a couple of more splitters (or attentuators), but I'm a lot further along now.

I still don't understand why this worked fine back in August (I know it worked after the digital TV transition).

[ybrew]

Question...

Borrowing a signal meter later today or tomorrow.

What should my signal meter strength be (what is acceptable)?

thanks!