Swapping out HD-PVR for Dish & R5000 - advice?

[davidjade]

I've used an HD-PVR with DirectTV for the last year or so. I am only recording plain old SD at the moment as I haven't upgraded my DirecTV receiver but the HD-PVR is just too unstable and I'm tired of messing with it. Seriously, I can't even reboot the server without having to reset the thing a few times and then I still get broken video streams that won't play back. So I'm done with the HD-PVR. I want something more reliable.

I am willing to dump DirecTV and switch to Dish and get an R5000 setup but I could use some advice. From what I can tell this seems like a pretty stable setup. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that. I have a very stable Windows 2003 server that hosts the SageTV service. Anything I should know about the R5000 software?

What exactly is the proceedure for hooking up a R5000 modded box to the Disk service? Do I just call up Dish and let them install whatever package deal they want to give me and then swap boxes out once they leave? Or do I have to do a more complicated dance with them to get a R5000 modded box activated?

I am planning on getting a ViP 211 and having it modded (I know about about the 'k' version and not to get one of those). If I find a box that I can get what exactly do I have to do to make sure it can be activated? I heard something about calling Dish and asking them if the box is clear or something. Is this going to raise any suspictions if I do this right after having new service installed?

Any other gotchas I should know about? Do the R5000 files playback Ok on an HD200 in standalone mode? I hear placeshifter doesn't work, is that true (and if so any hope for making it work)?

Any pointers on how to make this as smooth as possible would be appreciated. I am most concerned about how to deal with Dish to get a modded box hooked up.

thanks,
david

[Fuzzy]

Be wary about buying 2nd hand boxes. Many boxes available on ebay and such are actually leased boxes that people did not turn back in. As such, they will not be able to be activated with Dish. There is NO way to get around this limitation. However, Dish will happily activate any legal dish box without problem. Nextcom does request that you activate your box BEFORE sending it to them for modification, to ensure that it IS a good, working box.

As for hooking it up, it really is a rather simple setup, just follow the directions on nextcom's site to the t. The new software released a few weeks ago really gets around all previous problems, and mine has been completely trouble free since then.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by davidjade

I've used an HD-PVR with DirectTV for the last year or so. I am only recording plain old SD at the moment as I haven't upgraded my DirecTV receiver but the HD-PVR is just too unstable and I'm tired of messing with it. Seriously, I can't even reboot the server without having to reset the thing a few times and then I still get broken video streams that won't play back. So I'm done with the HD-PVR. I want something more reliable.

IMO before dropping the what, $800 for an R5000, I'd try to get the HD PVR working. Try the 1.0.5.3 drivers. Make sure it's on it's own USB port, the delay_to_wait_after_tuning is set to 4000 or so.

The main reason is IMO the R5000 is a dead end product. It doesn't work (effectively) on DirecTV or Cable, and it only works with discontinued Dish boxes.

I am planning on getting a ViP 211 and having it modded (I know about about the 'k' version and not to get one of those). If I find a box that I can get what exactly do I have to do to make sure it can be activated? I heard something about calling Dish and asking them if the box is clear or something. Is this going to raise any suspictions if I do this right after having new service installed?

IIRC you need to get the serial number of the box from the seller and check with Dish if it can be activated. AFAIK there's nothing suspicious about that. It's perfectly OK as far as dish goes to buy/sell owned boxes.

[Chriscic]

I feel your pain re: the HD-PVR, having gone through 9 months of suffering before getting to my current flawless setup with 2 HD-PVRs.

What version of the HD-PVR do you have? Have you tried RMAing it through Hauppauge? That's what fixed it for me.

Regardless, one advantage of the R5000 will be superior image quality vs. the HD-PVR. The HD-PVR looks great on my 55inch set, but not as good as the Dish box direct output and I can see the difference even more on my 130" projector screen. How much extra $ this is worth is user preference of course.

[Fluffdaddy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

IMO before dropping the what, $800 for an R5000, I'd try to get the HD PVR working

Not even close. The price is $300 bucks

http://nextcomwireless.com/store/ind...roducts_id=180

Price drop about a year now.
Amazing what a little competition will do.


Edit to add. I love my R5000HD, it worked like a champ from day one. Better picture quality and never missed a channel change or a recording. Wish I could say the same about my 3 HD-PVR's which are about 90% now.........but it was not easy.

[davidjade]

Thanks for all the info, this really helps.

Right now my rev C2 HD-PVR is somewhat stable except that I can't just reboot my server with also unplugging it & restarting the Sage service several times to make it work again and even then about 1 out of 10 recordings or so I get a recorded video that plays back with a strobed effect like it is playing every tenth frame. Because of this we miss shows all the time. Sage support has told me this is most likely a HD-PVR problem in that it is recording a bad stream. I've never had a lock up though so I am extremely hesitant to touch the thing.

I also feel that I am a little stuck in a chicken/egg situation with trying to get my HD-PVR really working. As I mentioned, I don't have a HD DirecTV box at this point. Do I lay out the cash or sign a new contract for an upgraded DirecTV box in the hopes that my HD-PVR will reach 90% or do I just forked over for an R5000 and make the switch to Dish and be done with it.

From my perspective, the Dish/R5000 seems like a safer bet for the long run. I understand that it is dead-end tech but as long as I can get a free & clear modded ViP 211, why would I ever care? It already does the latest MP4 HD streams.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Fluffdaddy

Not even close. The price is $300 bucks

http://nextcomwireless.com/store/ind...roducts_id=180

Price drop about a year now.
Amazing what a little competition will do.

Last time I looked it was still $550 for the mod, plus another $220 or so for a new modable VIP211. And Nextcom was selling the premodded boxes for about $800.

Technically they're still asking $800 for the premodded boxes.

Looking around VIP211's they go for anywhere between $150 and $220, so unless you plan on getting your leased boxes modded, it's still a $500 investment.

But regardless the point still stands, even if you assume the cost of the boxes cancel out, $300 is rather a lot for something that can't be transferred to another provider, and only works with a discontinued box.

No doubt the R5000 is great, but you should just realize going in, you'll be out your investment if you decide to change providers, or if Dish drops support for the VIP211.

[sic0048]

I understand both sides of the arguement. To some, no money is saved is worth the time and aggrevation that some experience getting an HD-PVR set up.

That being said, I personally went with a HD-PVR not just because it was cheaper, but mainly because of the portability between providers.

One RMAed unit and my system seems stable. But then again, I'm too chicken to upgrade to the latest firmware, or even try digital audio. so I wouldn't call my system perfect by any means.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by sic0048

I understand both sides of the arguement. To some, no money is saved is worth the time and aggrevation that some experience getting an HD-PVR set up.

The HD PVR has had a painful birth no doubt. But the drivers have gotten better, Sage has learned better how to use it, and Hauppauge has made some hardware updates. All told, I think thinks are far better with the HD PVR today than they were at launch. Quite a number of us have HD PVRs working just fine.

It's not perfect, but then again, IIRC the R5000 brings it's own issues, like the troublesome PAFF interlacing Dish uses.

The sad fact is for premium HD, there is no perfect solution.

[davephan]

Are you using the Hauppauge IR blaster included with the HD-PVR? If so, do not use it. The HD-PVR is not stable if you use the Hauppauge IR blaster. Use a USB-UIRT instead.

Dave

[davidjade]

My issue has never been stability even though I do use the IR blaster. It's never locked once. It's that it is never usable after rebooting my server without repeatedly unplugging/resetting/restarting until it works again. My server, receiver & hd-pvr are in a (very well-ventilated) cabinet in the basement so I'm always running upstairs checking the TV, going back down and pulling plugs, etc... That and the crazy unpredictable strobe-like video that gets captured sometimes. Bottom line is it misses shows all the time. Probably 10-15% and that is bad for the WAF.

So for me I don't think it's worth headaches anymore. Maybe it will be better someday. Maybe it could be better today if I were to just update or re-install it again. But then maybe it would stop working for some reason that only an RMA would fix. I'm likely out of warranty at this point so that may not even be an option for me.

Nothing is perfect, that is true. But if a R5000 can work more reliably than *my* HD-PVR then I would be happy to be locked to Dish for as long as a ViP211 works or until other options come along. To me that would be money well spent.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by davidjade

My issue has never been stability even though I do use the IR blaster. It's never locked once. It's that it is never usable after rebooting my server without repeatedly unplugging/resetting/restarting until it works again. My server, receiver & hd-pvr are in a (very well-ventilated) cabinet in the basement so I'm always running upstairs checking the TV, going back down and pulling plugs, etc... That and the crazy unpredictable strobe-like video that gets captured sometimes. Bottom line is it misses shows all the time. Probably 10-15% and that is bad for the WAF.

Why are you rebooting your server constantly? Sounds to me like that's your real problem.

[davephan]

Try configuring the HD-PVR to use the USB-UIRT if you have a USB-UIRT. If you do not have a USB-UIRT, try configuring the HD-PVR to have no IR blaster. Run it for awhile with that configuration, even though you will not be able to switch channels, to see if the problem reoccurs.

Dave

[Fuzzy]

There is also, if you have the skills, the DiY R5000 option. That is the route I took, and it works great. It really isn't THAT difficult, if you have some soldering experience.

The option, I suppose, is there to DIY leased boxes, which really DOES bring down the cost, just not legitimately. In the end, I think it's only like 5 or 6 solder connections, so it's not like removing it would be THAT difficult either. (again, only if you REALLY know what you are doing with a solder iron).

[davidjade]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Why are you rebooting your server constantly? Sounds to me like that's your real problem.

Not constantly just the usual once maybe twice a month for updates, etc...

The point is, if I have to mess with the HD-PVR every time I reboot then it's effectively a broken piece of hardware. But even if it just not working after rebooting weren't the issue, its the knowledge that I never do know when it will miss a recording because I can't tell until I go to watch it and see that the capture is messed up. And then when it does I have to spend time resetting, rebooting, etc... and then I have to spent time searching for torrents of messed up recordings, etc...

I simple spend too much time working on the system because of this one piece of hardware. My server, Sage, HDHR, HD100, HD200 all work flawlessly and require no babysitting like the HD-PVR does.

[davidjade]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

...The option, I suppose, is there to DIY leased boxes, which really DOES bring down the cost, just not legitimately. ...

I thought the main issue was that the ViP 211 that can be modded wasn't available anymore so my only option is to get a 2nd hand one at this point and get it modded.

[jerryt]

There is at least one advantage to the HD-PVR over the R5000 with Dishnet. I have both and I can only have h.264 closed captions with the HD-PVR.

It is closed captions which are burned into the saved video, as the HD-PVR is only recording the video (Including captions) that the VIP211 is outputing.

The R5000 is tapping into the video before the STB has a chance to overlay captions or other information, so captions don't work. To make matters worse there appears to be no caption information saved with the R5000 recordings, at least not any that "MediaInfo" or "CCextractor" can find.

[Fuzzy]

true, if you aren't currently a dish customer, it would be hard to lease a 211. In which case, yes, purdhased boxes are your only option. I was fortunate to have requested 3 Dish 211's when I signed up with Dish (this WAS after the 211k was released, but they let me get the 211 anyways... my reasoning was that my wife wanted 'silver' components... the 211k is black.. ;-)) I'm pretty sure they aren't destroying the 211's that DO get turned in, so you may still be able to lease one. doesn't hurt to ask.

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by davephan

Are you using the Hauppauge IR blaster included with the HD-PVR? If so, do not use it. The HD-PVR is not stable if you use the Hauppauge IR blaster. Use a USB-UIRT instead.

Dave

Really, because mine is perfectly stable using the Hauppauge IR Blaster.

[voorhees]

Originally Posted by Fluffdaddy

Not even close. The price is $300 bucks

http://nextcomwireless.com/store/ind...roducts_id=180

Price drop about a year now.
Amazing what a little competition will do.

Looks like they have raised there prices on all of the mods by $100. Went to order the DCP-501 mod and noticed the significant price hike.