MCE/VMC/7MC as network encoder?

[Fuzzy]

So, in the recent discussions about the cable companies removing a bunch of ClearQAM, I again realized that the best way to get encrypted vids into the PC is via cablecard. Unfortunately, you're locked into media center with this solution. My question is, has anyone thought about what it would take to make an MC plugin that basically acted as a Sage Network Encoder? There seems to be methods of converting the DVR-MS files to normal MPG, using graphedit.. even on the fly... So, the app would basically need to receive a tuning request from sage, start the recording in MC, load up the conversion graph, with the target being the sage passed destination filename. Is this crazy, or would this be actually possible? I mean, since you can get the cablecard tuners for about $250 now, it seems like this would be a great solution, compared to an HD-PVR...

Still, for that cost, I could get another R-5000HD.. but I'm leery of throwing any more money in nextcom's direction until they get a decent software solution working.

[Brent]

Very interesting idea indeed. Wouldn't you still have problems with playback somehow with DRM and file format?

I don't agree though that CableCard is better than the HD-PVR. While I hate having to have a cable box as part of the solution I like the fact that I'm tuning every channel I pay for (don't have to worry about switched video or "protection errors") and I like that there is no DRM wrapped around the content too.

[Fuzzy]

DRM might be an issue... I'm really not sure how the DRM is implemented. Besides, I'm sure there are already ways around the DRM in the works. regardless, it seems like CableCard, or some other form of broadcaster provided authorization device is the only thing that will get true PC integration. Even if I end up having to have a particular AuthCard for each device I wish to play back the media on, it would be worth it.

Another thing to note, is that with Windows Media Foundation, the Protected path required by the CableCard systems is not theoretically locked down inside of Media Center, but could be developed to be used within any application (just required to use ProtectedPath certified transforms only). It should, in theory, allow any application (SageTV) to implement this interface for recording from an OCUR style device to a DRM'd file (DVR-MS or WTV, most likely). It would then be required to use a similar Protected Path set to playback the file, one that shared the authorization information. This, in my view, is how DRM is SUPPOSED to work, and with WMF making the standards open to any developer, it just might be possible.

[toricred]

I still don't understand why you wouldn't just use the HD-PVR. I'm using 4 of them now and they're a lot easier to get working than this would be.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

DRM might be an issue... I'm really not sure how the DRM is implemented. Besides, I'm sure there are already ways around the DRM in the works. regardless, it seems like CableCard, or some other form of broadcaster provided authorization device is the only thing that will get true PC integration. Even if I end up having to have a particular AuthCard for each device I wish to play back the media on, it would be worth it.

Another thing to note, is that with Windows Media Foundation, the Protected path required by the CableCard systems is not theoretically locked down inside of Media Center, but could be developed to be used within any application (just required to use ProtectedPath certified transforms only). It should, in theory, allow any application (SageTV) to implement this interface for recording from an OCUR style device to a DRM'd file (DVR-MS or WTV, most likely). It would then be required to use a similar Protected Path set to playback the file, one that shared the authorization information. This, in my view, is how DRM is SUPPOSED to work, and with WMF making the standards open to any developer, it just might be possible.

This is not entirely true I used cable card before coming to sage. The cable card DRM is completely different from the normal playready in that is it limited to Media Center and also is limited to the computer it is recorded on. No one has hacked this yet and I don't know if they will (the drm is applied at the tuner before every reaching the pc) as well as the checks and balances that occur and the drm can't even be backed up as it is spread out all over the place. Cablecard was built for media center and solidily so under crappy ocur and cablelabs restrictions. I don't see this every coming to sage.

[babgvant]

DRM is a blocking issue here; it would be possible to write some SW to broker this sort of thing otherwise (assuming that Sage published the necessary protocol).

[Fuzzy]

It all really depends on how they are using the DRM. If they are using Media Foundation, all the tools are there for working within the designated license. If they are adding extra layers of protection on TOP of that already built into WMF, specifically locking it into media center, then, yes, it's a roadblock.

Can the WTV files recorded by media center be played back any other WMF capable players i wonder (WMP)? If so, then it should still be able to be played back with sage (once/if sage implements WMF graphing - which they SHOULD anyways)

[babgvant]

The SBE is DirectShow only; and what I said earlier isn't my opinion or conjecture on the issue. DRM is blocking for any player not willing to put up $15K for an initial PlayReady license, agree to the terms of the license, and then pay an additional 10K for every "major" release.

BTW, WMF = Windows Media Format (WMV and associated technologies); while it is possible to deal with DVR-MS files using WMF because the underlying container is ASF, what you can do with the data is somewhat limited w/o doing an incredibile amount of rework. WTV on the other hand is not ASF based so WMF can't do anything with the files.

I'm not sure if WMP will play DRM'd SBE files, but I expect it can; but they are a PlayReady license holder (being MS and all). More importantly it is fallacious to claim "if one player can do it, everyone can" that's not how sw development works in the real world.

What benefit of MF are you looking for specifically? The current OOTB implementation is severly lacking (try opening anything that isn't a wmv in TopoEdit); it will be years before the necessary infastructure (sources and tranforms) exists for a product like Sage (BYOT[ransform] & BYOS[ource]) to create a working player; even then I struggle to find a compelling reason for them to spend anytime on it.