Update for HD: can it be done for $200 - MB, video, ram and cpu.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

I have a 9950x4, which is way more than you need. The newest 45nm x2s are probably a better choice for most people if the mobo supports it (should just be a BIOS update). They are cheap, have 2x the L2 of the earlier AM3 parts and @65w will be easy to cool and keep quiet.

The on-board HDMI works great for bitstreaming AC-3 and DTS, but I'm currently running a 4650 because I wanted multi-channel LPCM.

When the 785G comes out I will be reevaluating the entire system, while the 9950 was a good choice at the time (needed power for h.264 commercial detection) it needs to be managed carefully to keep noise levels down.

Thanks - all good info. I'm looking at the Asus M3878-EM. It apparently supports AMD 2+ and Phenom processors. Can't find a reference to nm X2 yet.
On a different note, if I go the server / HD Theater route, is a CAT5, 100mb network enough? I am running a 1G N router, but am not looking forward to running new CAT6 everywhere.

[thatdude90210]

The 785g has been out a few days. There are 6 currently at newegg.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by thatdude90210

The 785g has been out a few days. There are 6 currently at newegg.

and what do you think the advantage of the 785g is? The boards at Newegg are all ATI chipsets - I was leaning towards nvidia

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

and what do you think the advantage of the 785g is? The boards at Newegg are all ATI chipsets - I was leaning towards nvidia

The biggest advantage for ATI hw is that HWA works with VC-1 content in MKV and unless it's been fixed Nvidia has color space issues when HDMI is used.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

The biggest advantage for ATI hw is that HWA works with VC-1 content in MKV and unless it's been fixed Nvidia has color space issues when HDMI is used.

so the best solution would be to buy a motherboard with one chipset (nvidia 8300) and a video card with a different chipset (ATI) - or in reverse? That way you could switch back and forth until you found the settings you were happiest with for the content you watch?

[thatdude90210]

Looks like the 785G is officially launched, this engadget post has a collection of reviews.

Hardware wise, 785G supposedly has similar 3D capability of 780G but with UVD2 (ATI's universal video decoder) that was introduced with the HD4xxx series. 780G has the first version of UVD. Check the reviews to see what's new with UVD2.

This anandtech review focused on video decoding and power usage. They are saying that with the 785G, you really don't need a HD4xxx series card for HTPC use.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by thatdude90210

Looks like the 785G is officially launched, this engadget post has a collection of reviews.

Hardware wise, 785G supposedly has similar 3D capability of 780G but with UVD2 (ATI's universal video decoder) that was introduced with the HD4xxx series. 780G has the first version of UVD. Check the reviews to see what's new with UVD2.

This anandtech review focused on video decoding and power usage. They are saying that with the 785G, you really don't need a HD4xxx series card for HTPC use.

Thanks for the info - I saw one of these yesterday - $90 - and the anadtech review suggests not needing a video card. and multiple channel LPCM - sounds good so far

However, what does this mean, exactly? Will DVD's with DTS audio, for example, not be decoded?

"...In another nod to the home theater PC crowd, AMD has upgraded the 780G's HDMI 1.2 support to version 1.3 for the 785G. The ability to output multi-channel LPCM audio output over HDMI has been added, as well, although TrueHD and DTS-HD audio remain unsupported...."

And what exactly is "true" HD audio?

thanks

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Thanks for the info - I saw one of these yesterday - $90 - and the anadtech review suggests not needing a video card. and multiple channel LPCM - sounds good so far

However, what does this mean, exactly? Will DVD's with DTS audio, for example, not be decoded?

"...In another nod to the home theater PC crowd, AMD has upgraded the 780G's HDMI 1.2 support to version 1.3 for the 785G. The ability to output multi-channel LPCM audio output over HDMI has been added, as well, although TrueHD and DTS-HD audio remain unsupported...."

And what exactly is "true" HD audio?

thanks

W/ the 785G you don't need a discrete video card.

You can chose how AC-3 and DTS are handled, either decode them on the PC and output as PCM (what I do) or bitstream them to the AVR (which will handle the decode).

Next gen audio formats (like TrueHD & DTS-HD, etc - which are lossless audio codecs used on blue-ray discs) will need to be decoded on the PC and output as PCM. This is why you want the multichannel LPCM output, it's how you get lossless audio out of the PC.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

W/ the 785G you don't need a discrete video card.

You can chose how AC-3 and DTS are handled, either decode them on the PC and output as PCM (what I do) or bitstream them to the AVR (which will handle the decode).

Next gen audio formats (like TrueHD & DTS-HD, etc - which are lossless audio codecs used on blue-ray discs) will need to be decoded on the PC and output as PCM. This is why you want the multichannel LPCM output, it's how you get lossless audio out of the PC.

So if my intention is to one day put a blueray drive in this HTPC, what would my audio options be? Will I be able to decode at least 5.1 or DTS from the disc, or is only 2 channel audio possible with the 785 chipset?

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

So if my intention is to one day put a blueray drive in this HTPC, what would my audio options be? Will I be able to decode at least 5.1 or DTS from the disc, or is only 2 channel audio possible with the 785 chipset?

with the 785G you can output 5.1 or 7.1 lossless audio.

the only thing you can't do is bitstream trueHD and DTS-MA.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

with the 785G you can output 5.1 or 7.1 lossless audio.

the only thing you can't do is bitstream trueHD and DTS-MA.

excellent news. So, in summation, if bluray and h.264 playback are needed, is the older 780 chipset capable, or is the 785 the way to go, in your opinion? I've always been an Nvidia fan, but that goes back several generations of video cards, when ATI drivers seemed to do little but crash

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

excellent news. So, in summation, if bluray and h.264 playback are needed, is the older 780 chipset capable, or is the 785 the way to go, in your opinion? I've always been an Nvidia fan, but that goes back several generations of video cards, when ATI drivers seemed to do little but crash

Now that the 785G is available, there's no reason to get a 780G for a HTPC.

I was a long time Nivida user too, soured by experiences with ATI drivers. Got a good deal on a 3650 (and was curious to see if anything had changed) and found that the overall experience was better than what I was getting with my nvidia card so I swapped it into my main HTPC, been using ATI hw in that box ever since (780g, 4650).

I have a G45 based board in my client, and I'm very happy with it but if I was building a HTPC right now it would be 785G based.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Now that the 785G is available, there's no reason to get a 780G for a HTPC.

I was a long time Nivida user too, soured by experiences with ATI drivers. Got a good deal on a 3650 (and was curious to see if anything had changed) and found that the overall experience was better than what I was getting with my nvidia card so I swapped it into my main HTPC, been using ATI hw in that box ever since (780g, 4650).

I have a G45 based board in my client, and I'm very happy with it but if I was building a HTPC right now it would be 785G based.

Thanks - I can get the one without sideport video memory, but I think it may be worth it to wait until those are available - another 128mb of ddr3 straight to onboard video - probably a good thing.

[Olias]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

On a different note, if I go the server / HD Theater route, is a CAT5, 100mb network enough? I am running a 1G N router, but am not looking forward to running new CAT6 everywhere.

The HD Theater tops out at 100mb so your current cabling is fine. BTW, is the cable cat 5 or cat 5e? The "e" variety is good for 1G networks, no need to use cat6 or cat6a (unless you're holding out for a future 10Gb network!)

Actually, straight cat5 works at 1G speeds "sometimes" if the runs aren't too long and the ends are well done. We've got some straight cat5 runs in our shop that are supporting PCs with 1G network cards.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Olias

The HD Theater tops out at 100mb so your current cabling is fine. BTW, is the cable cat 5 or cat 5e? The "e" variety is good for 1G networks, no need to use cat6 or cat6a (unless you're holding out for a future 10Gb network!)

Actually, straight cat5 works at 1G speeds "sometimes" if the runs aren't too long and the ends are well done. We've got some straight cat5 runs in our shop that are supporting PCs with 1G network cards.

Great - I'm not sure if it's 5e - my installation fellow was a little cheap. Is it written on the outside of the jacket? Longest lengths are 50' from the router.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

I have a 9950x4, which is way more than you need. The newest 45nm x2s are probably a better choice for most people if the mobo supports it (should just be a BIOS update). They are cheap, have 2x the L2 of the earlier AM3 parts and @65w will be easy to cool and keep quiet.

The on-board HDMI works great for bitstreaming AC-3 and DTS, but I'm currently running a 4650 because I wanted multi-channel LPCM.

When the 785G comes out I will be reevaluating the entire system, while the 9950 was a good choice at the time (needed power for h.264 commercial detection) it needs to be managed carefully to keep noise levels down.

So after releasing the wrong info, AMD apparently is now saying that the 785 chipsets DON'T support multiple-channel LPCM over HDMI.
Therefore, what good is the chipset at a premium price? Seems like the way to go is for a 780 board at half the price, and then a high-powered video card with HDMI audio if needed?

[Olias]

Yep, it's printed right on the cable but is sometimes hard to see (especially if you have eyes like mine). 50 ft should be no problem either way.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Olias

Yep, it's printed right on the cable but is sometimes hard to see (especially if you have eyes like mine). 50 ft should be no problem either way.

thanks, I'll put on my reading glasses and take a look

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

So after releasing the wrong info, AMD apparently is now saying that the 785 chipsets DON'T support multiple-channel LPCM over HDMI.
Therefore, what good is the chipset at a premium price? Seems like the way to go is for a 780 board at half the price, and then a high-powered video card with HDMI audio if needed?

Wow. I have to wonder what the point is for the 785G w/o that feature...

The 780G now, with a discrete card later (a mid level card should be plenty though) isn't a bad option. Might be worth it to cost out what a comparable 9400 based system would be.

[Fuzzy]

an ION board might be fast enough for client duty. The Zotac A-Series boards are mini-itx, with HDMI, INCLUDING 7.1 OUTPUT, which AMD can't seem to figure out.