Update for HD: can it be done for $200 - MB, video, ram and cpu.

[tvmaster2]

Hi again. The update of my LCD to 1920x1080 52" screen makes me think it's time to upgrade the SageTV HTPC, which is currently an AGP Geforce 6200 with 2 gigs ram and a 2.1 gig celeron.

The system should be able to handle HDMI (audio too), HD, possibly bluray, and do it without needless headaches and driver nightmares. I am looking at a HP-PVR and HD200 down the road, but since I use Youtube and Hulu, a quality HTPC is the first priority. As far as BluRay, that can wait: I can just as easily add a stand-alone unit to off-load HTPC problems.

Is it possible to replace the motherboard, cpu, ram and video card for $200?
I have seen some nice MB's and video cards, but am wary of ATI driver headaches that some people report here.

Do I even need a video card for HD / HDMI? Are there on-board solutions (Geforce 8200/8300) that will do the job? I intend to have one Hauppauge card, likely the newest (2250?) for QAM and off-air.

so please report your systems and how trouble-free they are.
silence is also a good thing, so a passive video card would be first on my list.

[pjpjpjpj]

I can't speak to prices of pieces and parts, but I would think the best bet would be to buy an HD200 to use for your Sage TV viewing and streaming of "standalone" media from your PC/storage drives... and also keep your PC connected to your TV as it is now, for non-HD media like youtube/hulu. Then you can just use your TV remote to switch the input depending on what you are watching.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

I can't speak to prices of pieces and parts, but I would think the best bet would be to buy an HD200 to use for your Sage TV viewing and streaming of "standalone" media from your PC/storage drives... and also keep your PC connected to your TV as it is now, for non-HD media like youtube/hulu. Then you can just use your TV remote to switch the input depending on what you are watching.

Thanks - as I mentioned, I will be adding an HD200 later on.
For now, the bigger screen is taxing my system for things like HULU and Sage.
So - a new build is in order.

[Fuzzy]

Sort of depends on your priorities... If Hulu is that important to you, then, yes, you should upgrade the PC.. however, if you spend more time in Sage, you could instead go with the extender, and get a flawless playback experience, and spend less on the electricity that the upgraded PC would use.

[mr_lore]

Easy!

Newegg.com

Shopping Cart
Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price
1 Foxconn A74MX-K AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813186151
$45.99

1 ASUS EAH4350 SILENT/DI/512MD2(LP) Radeon HD 4350 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Low Profile Ready Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814121310
$32.99

1 Patriot Extreme Performance Gaming Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model PGS24G6400ELK - Retail
Item #: N82E16820220396
$43.99

1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ Brisbane 2.8GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO5400DOBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103235
$69.00


Subtotal: $191.97


Assumes you can re-use hard drive and DVD/Blu Ray.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by mr_lore

Easy!

Newegg.com

Shopping Cart
Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price
1 Foxconn A74MX-K AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813186151
$45.99

1 ASUS EAH4350 SILENT/DI/512MD2(LP) Radeon HD 4350 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Low Profile Ready Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814121310
$32.99

1 Patriot Extreme Performance Gaming Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model PGS24G6400ELK - Retail
Item #: N82E16820220396
$43.99

1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ Brisbane 2.8GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO5400DOBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103235
$69.00


Subtotal: $191.97


Assumes you can re-use hard drive and DVD/Blu Ray.

thanks, Mr Lore - good one. I notice you use a Nvidia card, is that correct? and is your direct tv / HD-PVR near your main set or in a closet somewhere?

[wammer23]

Originally Posted by mr_lore

Easy!

Newegg.com

Shopping Cart
Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price
1 Foxconn A74MX-K AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813186151
$45.99

1 ASUS EAH4350 SILENT/DI/512MD2(LP) Radeon HD 4350 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Low Profile Ready Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814121310
$32.99

1 Patriot Extreme Performance Gaming Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model PGS24G6400ELK - Retail
Item #: N82E16820220396
$43.99

1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ Brisbane 2.8GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO5400DOBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103235
$69.00


Subtotal: $191.97


Assumes you can re-use hard drive and DVD/Blu Ray.

for what it's worth I use the exact video card listed above and I am extremely happy with it.

I use it with the HD-PVR and it handles the h.264 very well. my AMD 64 X2 2.1 ghz only runs at 8-17% load while viewing HD from Dishnetwork.

It also handles Blu-Ray really well with approximately the same amount of CPU load.

[hingepin]

What about an integrated mobo solution w/HDMI? Research that on these forums. May save a couple bucks.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by hingepin

What about an integrated mobo solution w/HDMI? Research that on these forums. May save a couple bucks.

Thanks - I've been trying to search for people with the nvidia 8200 or 8300 chipsets on their motherboards - with included HDMI / SPDIF, but haven't found many recent threads.

That would be my first choice if it was a workable solution.

[hingepin]

I don't use my vista machine to view. I have a 780G chipset and experience slight stutters/pauses. I haven't played with it at all. I'm sure I can get it to go away but I have an HD200. I've heard the Nvidia chipsets have great performance.

I have enough parts to build a client and may do so w/windows 7, if that appears to work better than Vista. Keep checking the forums. A lot of great info and people to help you along the way. Rule of thumb...let someone else try it first. If they have a good setup and same as yours, give it a try. I'm in the middle of a complete format and install cause I tried WHS and missed a step.

[mr_lore]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

thanks, Mr Lore - good one. I notice you use a Nvidia card, is that correct? and is your direct tv / HD-PVR near your main set or in a closet somewhere?

Yep, at this price point IMO, the brand doesnt matter. My whole setup is in an AV closet near my projector, the Sage server, power conditioner, Denon 2808, xbox 360, wii, DirecTV box, HD PVR, and HD 200. I use the hd200 mainly, I use the server very rarely on the projector, usually to update/tweak it, maybe use mlb.tv but thats it.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by mr_lore

Yep, at this price point IMO, the brand doesnt matter. My whole setup is in an AV closet near my projector, the Sage server, power conditioner, Denon 2808, xbox 360, wii, DirecTV box, HD PVR, and HD 200. I use the hd200 mainly, I use the server very rarely on the projector, usually to update/tweak it, maybe use mlb.tv but thats it.

regarding the HD200 - how's the speed of the interface? When you make menu requests, how does it compare in relation to using the Sagetv interface directly (say, via a Hauppuge remote, etc.)?

[joe123]

With today's economy, there are lots of Bargain systems in the $200 dollar range.

I don't see building a SageTV recorder/server for $200, but building a SageTV client for around $200 bucks is sure possible.

There are GREAT advantages in building a PC based Client instead of buying a SageTV HD200.

With a PC based client, I can run all kinds of applications aside from SageTV placeshifter. I am doing it now and I don't know what I would do with only a SageTV HD200 dedicated only to SageTV box. For example, I can run vuze and be able to watch movies. With my wireless keyboard/mouse, I can browse the web, etc.

There is comparison folks.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by joe123

With today's economy, there are lots of Bargain systems in the $200 dollar range.

I don't see building a SageTV recorder/server for $200, but building a SageTV client for around $200 bucks is sure possible.

There are GREAT advantages in building a PC based Client instead of buying an SageTV HD200.

With a PC based client, I can run all kinds of applications aside from SageTV placeshifter. I am doing it now and I don't know what I would do with only a HD200 box. For example, I can run vuze and be able to watch movies. With my wireless keyboard/mouse, I can browse the web, etc.

There is comparison folks.

Agreed - I think I will add the HD boxes in a month or so, but first I still want a stand-alone system capable of everything, including the possibility of bluray down the road if possible.
Right now, the most important thing is a motherboard and chipset (matx) that could possibly handle the duties without a PCI video card. If that's not possible, then at the very least both 5.1 audio and HD video need to be output from the on-board or PCI video card via HDMI.

any suggestions?

[mr_lore]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

regarding the HD200 - how's the speed of the interface? When you make menu requests, how does it compare in relation to using the Sagetv interface directly (say, via a Hauppuge remote, etc.)?

The hd200 interface is perfect, as in no speed or circle of death issues when using the default stv, however sagemc does 'tax' the system seemingly every now and then, I would say there are significant lags or delays in sagemc on the hd200 about every 10th menu move. But then again this could be my setup as I have extremely large media directories with substantial folder.jpg's and a huge TV lineup.

[babgvant]

If you don't care about multi-channel LPCM, I'd get a 780g based system. Add in an AM2+ or AM3 CPU (while AM2 will work, the memory bandwidth is too low to do 1080i deinterlacing), and some 1066 DDR2 RAM. Should have no problem coming in under $200.

While ATI drivers can be a PITA, it is the only card that does VC-1 HWA from MKV.

The bad part about buying one now is that the 785G which does support multi-channel PCM is coming out soon.

If you get a discrete card, make sure it can do 1080i DI; the 4350 mentioned earlier will struggle with that.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

If you don't care about multi-channel LPCM, I'd get a 780g based system. Add in an AM2+ or AM3 CPU (while AM2 will work, the memory bandwidth is too low to do 1080i deinterlacing), and some 1066 DDR2 RAM. Should have no problem coming in under $200.

While ATI drivers can be a PITA, it is the only card that does VC-1 HWA from MKV.
The bad part about buying one now is that the 785G which does support multi-channel PCM is coming out soon.
If you get a discrete card, make sure it can do 1080i DI; the 4350 mentioned earlier will struggle with that.

Help with terms please: LPCM?
VC-1 HWA?
Where would multi-channel PCM come in helpful?
DI?

thanks

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Help with terms please: LPCM?
VC-1 HWA?
Where would multi-channel PCM come in helpful?
DI?

thanks

sorry.

LPCM = linear pulse code modulation; essentially raw audio. Since you can't bitstream lossless audio w/o a special, expensive audio card and specialized software, decoding in the PC and streaming multichannel LPCM is the only way to get lossless audio off the PC. If your AVR doesn't support HDMI or you don't expect to do Blue-ray then there's not a huge reason to worry about it. BTW, one workaround if that's the case is to use Reclock; you can decode on the PC and have Reclock encode the LPCM as AC-3, bitstreaming it to the AVR.

VC-1 = a high quality video codec used in WMV HD and some Blue-ray discs.

HWA = Hardware Acceleration; your video card does the work. Makes for a quieter, cooler, more energy efficient system and you can run a lower spec CPU because it doesn't need to do as much work.

DI = Deinterlacing, all video streams need to be converted to progressive at whatever resolution your PC is connected to the TV (1080p for e.g.). Lower end cards (i.e. 4350, 4550) work very well for decoding Blue-ray content (1080p), but most don't have the necessary memory bandwidth or processing power to properly DI 1080i (most HD ATSC is 1080i).

A common problem with the 780G is that using an AM2 (v. AM2+) CPU, which use an older/slower method for accessing system RAM, introduces picture quality issues. If you opt for a 780G (or wait for the 785G), make sure that you get the right CPU for the job. When I built my 780G system, I went for 1066 DDR2 to make sure that memory bandwidth wasn't going to be an issue.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by babgvant

sorry.

LPCM = linear pulse code modulation; essentially raw audio. Since you can't bitstream lossless audio w/o a special, expensive audio card and specialized software, decoding in the PC and streaming multichannel LPCM is the only way to get lossless audio off the PC. If your AVR doesn't support HDMI or you don't expect to do Blue-ray then there's not a huge reason to worry about it. BTW, one workaround if that's the case is to use Reclock; you can decode on the PC and have Reclock encode the LPCM as AC-3, bitstreaming it to the AVR.

VC-1 = a high quality video codec used in WMV HD and some Blue-ray discs.

HWA = Hardware Acceleration; your video card does the work. Makes for a quieter, cooler, more energy efficient system and you can run a lower spec CPU because it doesn't need to do as much work.

DI = Deinterlacing, all video streams need to be converted to progressive at whatever resolution your PC is connected to the TV (1080p for e.g.). Lower end cards (i.e. 4350, 4550) work very well for decoding Blue-ray content (1080p), but most don't have the necessary memory bandwidth or processing power to properly DI 1080i (most HD ATSC is 1080i).

A common problem with the 780G is that using an AM2 (v. AM2+) CPU, which use an older/slower method for accessing system RAM, introduces picture quality issues. If you opt for a 780G (or wait for the 785G), make sure that you get the right CPU for the job. When I built my 780G system, I went for 1066 DDR2 to make sure that memory bandwidth wasn't going to be an issue.

Can I ask what CPU you purchased for the task? Do you have any problems with 5.1 audio decoding through the HDMI outputs of the MB?

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Can I ask what CPU you purchased for the task? Do you have any problems with 5.1 audio decoding through the HDMI outputs of the MB?

I have a 9950x4, which is way more than you need. The newest 45nm x2s are probably a better choice for most people if the mobo supports it (should just be a BIOS update). They are cheap, have 2x the L2 of the earlier AM3 parts and @65w will be easy to cool and keep quiet.

The on-board HDMI works great for bitstreaming AC-3 and DTS, but I'm currently running a 4650 because I wanted multi-channel LPCM.

When the 785G comes out I will be reevaluating the entire system, while the 9950 was a good choice at the time (needed power for h.264 commercial detection) it needs to be managed carefully to keep noise levels down.