Are we ever going to get rid of the "pause"? YES WE DID!

[reeven]

You chicken guys, scared by an woman)
Let's faced, it's not the wife who want this fixed, it's us, we want this pause to dissapear.....gone...barried...we deserved that...we pay for sage, right?

We could find an coder who fixed this problem for us....

[sleonard]

Couldn't one use the basic concept of the Sage Recording Extender but instead of checking the internet for overtime look to see if the currently recording show is being watched live and start padding the end?

This would prevent "The Pause" during critical moments at the end of a show but would have some negative consequences as well. The biggest of which would be that the recordings would not end unless and until the user stopped watching live TV or changed the channel. The file size could get ridicoulously large if you just left live TV on the same channel and the single file could end up containing multiple shows. (Think kids falling asleep while watching live tv)

One could put an item in the options menu to toggle this on and off while watching live so the user could start watching live tv, press select twice to get the options menu and toggle the extender function on if she thought the show might run over. If later she found the show ended on time she could again go to the options menu and toggle the extender function off.

I haven't thought through this idea very thoroughly since it just popped into my head and there might be some showstopping (pun not intended) issues but this might have potential.

S

[Olias]

Originally Posted by reeven

You chicken guys, scared by an woman)

Happy wife, happy life!

[bcjenkins]

Wouldn't this patent cover what is being asked?

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5371551.html

Assuming so, I could see why SageTV has not implemented such a feature.

B

[MeInMaui]

I wonder if something along the lines of the Sage Recording Extender could be written to use the output of live commercial detection to extend the padding until it detects that there is a commercial break. Add to that a message popup that indicates sage is switching to a new recording while the pause takes place and I think that would satisfy most of the complaints. Personally I never watch live TV and I pad everything with a couple of minutes on both ends, so I never see the pause.

Aloha,
Mike

[sleonard]

I've thought about it a bit more and am wondering if the existing SRE import couldn't be modified a bit to add a menu item called "AutoPad" into the menu that comes up when you hit Select twice while watching a show (I'm at work and cannot remember the actual menu name). The menu item is simply an on/off toggle for auto padding the recording. Alternatively there could be a setting in "Advanced Setup" that always uses the AutoPad feature when a show is being watched "Live".

I imagine it to work like this:

Your watching "Live" TV and the show you're watching is scheduled to end at 12:00. You toggle the SRE AutoPad feature to On (or its done automatically by the Advanced Setup setting) and when the time is 11:59 SRE starts adding a minute of padding for every minute that passes. By the time 12:00 arrives there is 1 minute of padding and no "Pause" during the show transition. As long as you continue to watch the same channel "Live" SRE continues to add padding. There would probably need to be a configurable MaxPadTime setting so that it wouldn't continue to add padding indefinately and causing a huge file of multiple shows if you forgot to hit stop.

S

[HelenWeathers]

I love watching the birth of new ideas here on the forum.

I would think something like this is very feasable as I have realized a show I was recording was going to run overtime and went into the favorites area to add padding to the end. So Sage (in this instance at least) is able to adjust the recording parameters while the recording is taking place.

Keep up the brainstorming. I'll just sit back and watch.

[HelenWeathers]

DirecTV has just come out with new software for the HRs that when a sports broadcast is live and you hit record it asks you if you want to extend the recording for 30 minutes past the EPG ending time for the program.

Could something similar happen in SageTV? If you are watching a live game (Sage would know that it's sports program) and are nearing the end of the scheduled time slot, an UNOBTRUSIVE menu could come up and just ask if you want to extend until the next EPG time break. It could even default to NO so if you're asleep at the wheel the live tv could either end live tv watching or start a new live recording for the next scheduled show.

[wayner]

Helen - for sports SRE (Sage Recording extender) polls the ESPN website to find out if a game is over - if not it keeps padding the recording until it ends. That's why people are suggesting adapting SRE to make the pause less noticable. Another idea would be to have realtime Commercial Skipping enabled and have the hiccup occur when you go to or return from commercial.

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by wayner

Helen - for sports SRE (Sage Recording extender) polls the ESPN website to find out if a game is over - if not it keeps padding the recording until it ends. That's why people are suggesting adapting SRE to make the pause less noticable. Another idea would be to have realtime Commercial Skipping enabled and have the hiccup occur when you go to or return from commercial.

I do understand - I was trying to think of a way without SRE and not needing internet access that might work too (maybe as part of SageTV). Just throwing another log on the fire.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

I do understand - I was trying to think of a way without SRE and not needing internet access that might work too (maybe as part of SageTV). Just throwing another log on the fire.

No internet access - you mean to suggest that some Sage users don't have internet access?

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by wayner

No internet access - you mean to suggest that some Sage users don't have internet access?

No - it's just one more process running (cecking the ESPN website) and using cpu time that might be used for something else. And where do we check when american idol runs over? Not that I watch american idol of course. But seriously, I was trying to think of something that could be adapted and used for live tv for any show that runs over - no matter the type of content although the biggest demand would be for sports.

[rosemary]

I find it a bit odd that one of the major criticisms of providing a circular buffer option is "then you won't be able to record a whole show that you've been watching in LiveTV" when the same people say "pause isn't a big deal because most of us don't watch LiveTV anymore." Wouldn't these two excuses cancel each other out?

Plus there's the whole fact that non-circular buffer or not, the whole "record the entire show" only works if you tuned to that show at the beginning of it and left it on that station the entire time and you decided you wanted to record it long after a normal (say 30 minute) circular buffer would run out of room. Seriously, do you think this use case comes anywhere near the same order of magnitude as the frequency of just sitting there and watching LiveTV as it goes over a hour pause boundary, or recording a program and catching up to it during LiveTV?

Coming to SageTV from Tivo, I can definitely say I never ran into this supposedly terrible shortcoming of using a circular buffer. On the other hand, I hit those other two use cases at least once a week.

Just seems like there's a lot of resistance here that isn't very logical but rather seems to be people being defensive about their favorite product. I love SageTV, too, but it never hurts to improve it for the wider audience. It's not just us geeks that use SageTV, but also our spouses, family and friends. Why unnecessarily limit the appeal of your product like that?

Why, especially, when it could be put in as an option so that you could continue having it just the way you like it?

[toricred]

I really thing the resistance is due to us wanting to see the limited programming time available put into other things rather than a fundamental change to how Sage works. Such a change would almost certainly introduce all kinds of new bugs. I think the ideas that have been thrown around here to use existing imports are a better solution.

[jsonnabend]

Originally Posted by rosemary

Plus there's the whole fact that non-circular buffer or not, the whole "record the entire show" only works if you tuned to that show at the beginning of it and left it on that station the entire time and you decided you wanted to record it long after a normal (say 30 minute) circular buffer would run out of room.

Exactly. The lack of a circular buffer is a poor design decision, and The Pause is a product defect, plain and simple.

- Jeff

[Fuzzy]

I'm not sure it's a defect. Sage does what is advertised. Records all the programs I want, and plays them back for me as I want. I honestly don't watch anything but football live, so I do not see this as a bug. The simplicity in the recording system (no extraneous buffering, no swithcing files on the fly, which would need to analyse to find proper cut points, etc) is what has allowed my system to record everything flawlessly for many many years. Also, by NOT having the circular buffer, and instead writing directly to a seperate file per show, I am able to comskip near live tv while I watch it. This way if I get a bit behind (bathroom breaks, phone calls, etc) I can easily skip the commercials and get caught back up. If a circular buffer was implemented, it would work best if the file was written to the circular buffer, and then moved out to it's own file when complete, therefore breaking my comskip live feature. THAT would be a defect.

[ewelin]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I'm not sure it's a defect. Sage does what is advertised. Records all the programs I want, and plays them back for me as I want. I honestly don't watch anything but football live, so I do not see this as a bug. The simplicity in the recording system (no extraneous buffering, no swithcing files on the fly, which would need to analyse to find proper cut points, etc) is what has allowed my system to record everything flawlessly for many many years. Also, by NOT having the circular buffer, and instead writing directly to a seperate file per show, I am able to comskip near live tv while I watch it. This way if I get a bit behind (bathroom breaks, phone calls, etc) I can easily skip the commercials and get caught back up. If a circular buffer was implemented, it would work best if the file was written to the circular buffer, and then moved out to it's own file when complete, therefore breaking my comskip live feature. THAT would be a defect.

I'm of the same mindset... I hate live TV cause of the comerials. Even if there is something I want to watch live, I'll wait 15 minutes, then start watching it so I can skip the commercials. My wife on the other hand likes flipping through the channels and finding something to watch. At the end of shows the pause does get annoying. I really like the suggestion ppl had of delaying the pause so it would occurring during a commercial break. This I think would be an ideal solution.

[rosemary]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

therefore breaking my comskip live feature. THAT would be a defect.

As I think I've made clear, I would think there's no reason why a circular buffer wouldn't be added as a new option. I'm not sure how an optional feature that you don't turn on is going to break your comskip live feature...

Originally Posted by toricred

I really thing the resistance is due to us wanting to see the limited programming time available put into other things rather than a fundamental change to how Sage works. Such a change would almost certainly introduce all kinds of new bugs. I think the ideas that have been thrown around here to use existing imports are a better solution.

First off, as a programmer I think the buffer management would be fairly partitioned off from the rest of the system and don't actually think it would be a big risk for introducing lots of new bugs, especially not for people who aren't even using it as an option. I would hope that the buffer management is much more of a black box than that.

Second, ultimately I assume that the creators of SageTV are going to make that decision based on what will be best for their company. So if, based on the feedback here and their own thought processes, they find that the pause is reducing their sales, they'll probably take it seriously. I'm not sure how stronger sales of SageTV could be anything but good when it comes to fixing your own favorite list of ideas to implement.

[jsonnabend]

Not a bug? That label is besides the point, really.

When something doesn't work as consumers expect, consumer satisfaction suffers. When it really doesn't work as expected, consumers may consider the product defective.

General expectations are, I'm confident, that TV does not have The Pause between live TV shows. How many anecdotes have we read where someone asked "is your tv broken?" How many other DVR systems introduce The Pause?

Nearly three quarters of those responding here want it removed. So bug or not, it's something SageTV might consider changing.

- Jeff

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by rosemary

First off, as a programmer I think the buffer management would be fairly partitioned off from the rest of the system and don't actually think it would be a big risk for introducing lots of new bugs, especially not for people who aren't even using it as an option. I would hope that the buffer management is much more of a black box than that.

Don't you think that's a pretty bold statement, coming from someone who has never seen the source code?