A little too expensive.

[JuddMan]

Sage is a great program, and i enjoyed the trial, but i think that it is a bit too expensive.

Case in point: I've been using a netbook (yes, really), for the sagetv media center as it's the only spare computer that's easy to leave on 24/7 and connected to the antenna outlet

Server: $79.99

I want to watch TV, but not on the netbook or even in that room, so i need a client as well.

Client: $29.99

for total cost of $109.90 USD, which is about $140 - 160 AUD. I think this is a bit too much.

If my two housemates want to watch the TV shows, they need clients too.

Can we have a SageTV Client bundle? either one client license bundled with the media center license, or a discounted multi-client bundle?
How about a sage

I understand the placeshifter license is managed by the server so it can be shared (one-per-concurrent-user style), but we have issues with the placeshifter cleint being really unresponsive, so we can't really use that.

I would also suggest the client use the placeshifter license model (and merge the licenses) so one can use either the regular OR placeshifter client. This makes sense, as the client is pretty useless on its own.

[Fuzzy]

Based on the amount of work that goes into SageTV, I feel the pricing is right in line. Considering the actual software cost is minimal compared to what most of us have paid into these systems, I feel it is fine. I agree that client and placeshifter/extender liscencing should be standardized, but that's mostly a legacy issue (clients were around long before placeshifter or extenders).

[wado1971]

Originally Posted by JuddMan

Can we have a SageTV Client bundle? either one client license bundled with the media center license, or a discounted multi-client bundle?

I like the idea ..... although the clients are not prices too bad.

Originally Posted by JuddMan

If my two housemates want to watch the TV shows, they need clients too.

I actually use xmbc for a seldom used den computer for watching media only (no scheduling). It imports all my sagetv recordings & other media fine. Works well as a FREE alternative front end .... and the UI is not too shabby!

[kevine]

Well, when you say something is pricey, my first thought is: Compared to what? Tell me where you can get anything cheaper then that? Nobody says you cannot create a shared drive and allow others to play the MPEGs diretly from the server (no cost).

[freedml]

When you say you have problems with Placeshifter playback, are you on a wired network? Or are you trying to use it via wireless (which I agree doesn't work well). I have no quality issues with PS on my hardwired network. And I really like being able to use PS at home and away.

[MitchSchaft]

I'm guessing he just wants it for free.

[freedml]

I think you have to compare SageTV to things like TiVo (hundreds of $$$ for each 'box' and lifetime data license) or to a Cable/Satellite service with DVR (monthly fee). You're getting that functionality for a single outlay of maybe $200.


The guide info is free, so if you're using OTA sources there is zero cost per month.

You can use it not only through the whole house, but anywhere you have an internet connection.

You can plug-in things like Comskip (which TiVo USED to have) and skip all those annoying commercials.

You can use your photo collection for a screen saver on the TVs enjoying your digital pictures anytime you're not watching tv.

I think it's a great value! I just wish it were easier to troubleshoot when things go wrong, and SageTV has had continuous problems for a year now in our household. Not bad enough to dump it, but it's not yet to the stage where I can recommend it to anyone who's not a 'hobbyist.'

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by JuddMan

Sage is a great program, and i enjoyed the trial, but i think that it is a bit too expensive.

Case in point: I've been using a netbook (yes, really), for the sagetv media center as it's the only spare computer that's easy to leave on 24/7 and connected to the antenna outlet

Server: $79.99

I want to watch TV, but not on the netbook or even in that room, so i need a client as well.

Client: $29.99

for total cost of $109.90 USD, which is about $140 - 160 AUD. I think this is a bit too much.

If you get the server and placeshifter client combo, you save $10. You have to account for the life of the product for the price you pay. They are very generous with free upgrades over the years.

If my two housemates want to watch the TV shows, they need clients too.

Make them pay for it.

Can we have a SageTV Client bundle? either one client license bundled with the media center license, or a discounted multi-client bundle?

They do offer discounts once a while, usually before big holidays.

I understand the placeshifter license is managed by the server so it can be shared (one-per-concurrent-user style), but we have issues with the placeshifter cleint being really unresponsive, so we can't really use that.

contact tech support to resolve the issue.

I would also suggest the client use the placeshifter license model (and merge the licenses) so one can use either the regular OR placeshifter client. This makes sense, as the client is pretty useless on its own.

This has been brought up before the last few years, and it hasn't changed for whatever reason, so don't expect it to change any time soon.

[JuddMan]

You make sound arguments, but my trial experience with sage just hasn't put its value (to me) quite at the asking price.

Regarding the placeshifter, the issue i was having was slow responsiveness, it felt like the placeshifter was lagging on menus due to network traffic for some reason. This is particularly evident in the media guide (i am using the guide broadcast on free to air). This lag was not evident in the client or on the media center itself. However, the fact that the media center host was a netbook may have something to do with it.

The placeshifter also lags when i right click during a show - the dialog that comes up takes a while to appear. Our upload speed is not useful for streaming over the net, and i really don't see myself watching my home TV when i go away on a trip. basically, this is not a big deal to me as it just means the client is the better choice for us.

Due to the media center running on a netbook, transcoding is not an option, but switching it off worked a treat. As my tuners are digital, the server actually uses very little CPU, and we have had multiple clients watching live and recorded TV just fine in both placeshifter and client.

Overall, i find the client and placeshifter take a fair while to seek - about 1 full second when i click the fast forward (long or short) or on the timeline. In contrast, VLC or media player classic are almost instant with the same files on the network share where sage puts them.

Both client and placeshifter had the same menu response issues under Windows 7, but i've gone back to XP since then anyway.

Often when scheduling a favourite, choosing which channel you want it to record on would become buggy - When you made a choice, it did not disable the 'any' choice until you selected two channels. Once two were selected, you could deselect one, but the interface would always show that the recording would be made on both of the last two channels you had selected. (this would be easier to explain if i could still take a screenshot).

Endings of shows are very often cut off. I found a solution by trawling the forums and finding the super secret unsupported extras password. then adjusted the default favourites padding. This meant that shows on the same channel back-to-back would tend to use up both tuners during the overlap time.

I recorded one kids show manually, and from then on the recordings page was full of the wiggles and barney and all that junk. The number of 'intelligent' recordings per day ramped up quite quickly - initially just operah and dr. phil, etc. which while we quickly 'don't like'd' them, were at least sensible guesses. Towards the end of the trial, Sage was recording so much that it was constantly filling the disk. I got lazy, thinking that it would clear the unwatched randoms, but for some reason it kept them and stopped recording favourites instead. I disabled that feature, but i did miss not having random stuff to check out now and then.

Sage is still a great program, and i may yet buy it. I don't seriously expect that my post here will cause any change in price. Nor am i asking for special treatment. I am just expressing my opinion. (though if it does result in a client + MC bundle to match the placeshifter, i'll be very happy that you listened)

[fidget]

Your performance problems are most likely due to the fact that you are using a netbook as your server. All menu processing for the placeshifter is done in the server. If you want the client to be more responsive, buy an actual client license. They do their processing locally and can play DVDs.

[MitchSchaft]

No kidding. He's using it improperly, then blames the price.

[MeInMaui]

Does a netbook even meet the minimum system requirements? It might, I'm just not sure. Once you start running placeshifter and/or extenders, you definitely want a more capable server with more RAM.

Aloha,
Mike

[heatvent]

Originally Posted by wado1971

Works well as a FREE alternative front end .... and the UI is not too shabby!

Understatement of the year. I think the XBMC people have the slickest media center front end I have seen. Too bad it doesn't do TV. Heck if it integrated fully as a SageTV front end and I could run it on an extender, I would go with the XBMC front end over SageMC or the default Sage STV in a nanosecond. No offense, I just really think they put together a great product. Of course, they have had a dedicated team that has been working on perfecting XBMC for several years.

[wado1971]

The new Phoenix stv is going to blow it out of the water!! Sorry, couldn't resist

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by wado1971

The new Phoenix stv is going to blow it out of the water!! Sorry, couldn't resist

Uh oh.

[heatvent]

Originally Posted by wado1971

The new Phoenix stv is going to blow it out of the water!! Sorry, couldn't resist

The gauntlet has been thrown down!

[JuddMan]

Originally Posted by fidget

All menu processing for the placeshifter is done in the server.

This seems a bit strange... so if there is a bit of a delay in the network when you're connecting to the server online, your menus will freeze up? the guide is understandable as it needs to know what shows are on, but i am talking about other menus.

Originally Posted by fidget

If you want the client to be more responsive, buy an actual client license. They do their processing locally and can play DVDs.

Yes. exactly.

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

Does a netbook even meet the minimum system requirements? It might, I'm just not sure.

I don't know. I can't find the minimum requirements, but the netbook is a Dell mini 9. It's got:
CPU: 1.60Ghz Atom
RAM: 1GB.
HDD: External USB2 Seagate 7200RPM
Tuner: TinyTwin USB2

the video card is enough to smoothly use sagetv on the netbook itself, but not too relavant when client side viewing comes in.

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

Once you start running placeshifter and/or extenders, you definitely want a more capable server with more RAM.

This is true, so i don't intend to use the placeshifter if i buy sage. but i was watching the task manager on the netbook while viewing a HD live tv show on a regular client on my main PC, while recording another channel at the same time, and it rarely topped 10%. As far as i can see, it is just doing some streaming (tuner -> file, file -> clients). This is also the case when transcoding is switched off in the placeshifter client.

Basically the argument comes down to:

Placeshifter: Not suitable for MY use.
Fat Client: Great for my use.

But the placeshifter license is a better value (comes in bundle, easily shared)

Why the distinction? The whole licensing issue could be far simpler:

Server license - can be used to activate any version of STV Media center - windows, linux, mac, whs.
Client license - Added to your server - can allow connections from client, MVP client, placeshifter client, etc. one license per concurrent connection.

[davephan]

If SageTV Media Center is too expensive, maybe you could use SageTV Recorder Version 1.5, which is much cheaper, only $19.95. I have never tried that version, but maybe it can do basic time shifting and recording for you for less money.

http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/me...gory_Code=CONS

Another cheaper alternative to record video and time shift is to use VHS video recorders. You could probably pick up VHS video recorders and tapes very cheap these days, or maybe for free. The VHS video recorders are really a low-end solution for video recording, but they can record video at a very low cost or maybe free. Maybe you could use SageTV media center and the housemates could use old VHS video recorders, until they can afford to buy SageTV.


Dave

[JuddMan]

I went to the shop to buy one of these VHS things you talk of, but they were out of stock.

They must be quite popular. I wonder when they'll get some more in?

The shop keeper did say they were quite a cheap alternative for PVR, and they come with the added bonus that you can put your recordings straight in from the TV guide using "G-codes". Can sage do that?

[davephan]

I think you could find many old VHS video recorders on "Craigs List", or pawn shops. There must be millions of old VHS video recorders that aren't being used anymore and could be purchased for very cheap, or maybe for free.

An old VHS video recorder will have none of the advanced features of SageTV and they are cumbersome to use and program. You might even find an old VHS recorder that has automatic commercial skipping (I own one, although I don't use the VHS for recording anymore). The video recording quality is lousy compared to high definition. However, the old VHS video recorders do allow you to time shift video at a very low cost.


Dave