Soon to be Sage user with DTV HR22.......

[Dark Overlord]

Greetings. New forum member here, lots of questions.

I did a quick search on the subject here already, but have some questions. I'll start with some background first.......

Just built a Media Center PC.

High end Gigabyte motherboard with a ton of options, HDMI etc. AM2+/AM3
2.6 ghz. AMD Quadcore processor.
4gb high speed ram.
Blu Ray Drive
M-Station HT-1100 case
Radeon Video card don't have model # in front of me, but it's a high end card, also with HDMI out on it.

I have 2 of the HP Media Server boxes (those cute little compact black boxes) for additional storage as the HT-1100 case is somewhat limited for space.

As of yet, I have not purchased a sound card or tuner cards.

I currently have a single HR22 DTV box.

From the forums here I have gathered the following:

1. I need the PatersonTech USB TV Translators to control the Directv box.
I see one issue already, as my motherboard lacks antiquated serial connections, so I'm also going to need a card to provide that connection for the patterson cables.

2. Hauppauge HDTV Tuners cards, 2 of them. Not certain if there is a specific logic for choosing one model over another at the moment. But I'll sort that out as I go along.

3. advice seems to suggest I need 2 of the HR22 units. A previous post I found here suggests that I need 2 Hauppauge cards for each HR22 box. Is this correct, even though the HVR-1800 for example is a dual tuner card?

At the moment, I'm using my HR22 strictly for SD. I haven't upgraded my dish yet, and I was holding off my HDTV purchase for one of the new LED TV units which I'll be purchasing as soon as I finish this box.

I have 4 boys, all pretty young. and they are brutal on Discs, and record all kinds of crap.

I bought the 2 HP media servers so I could basically RIP our entire "popular list" DVD collection to the servers for playback. To date, I think I've purchased Harry Potter films at least twice per film as they tend to get the crap beat out of them and scratched up.

Also I would LOVE to avoid the "DAD!! I can't find (insert movie title here) complaints that always arise on Saturday night. Of course that will end up becoming "DAD!! I can't find the remote!!"

Not to mention I'd love for them to watch Pokemon ANYWHERE ELSE but where I am.

Based on the above, am I missing anything that is a necessity/relevant to make this an easy to use for the entire family?

thanks.

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by Dark Overlord

Greetings. New forum member here, lots of questions.

I did a quick search on the subject here already, but have some questions. I'll start with some background first.......

Just built a Media Center PC.

High end Gigabyte motherboard with a ton of options, HDMI etc. AM2+/AM3
2.6 ghz. AMD Quadcore processor.
4gb high speed ram.
Blu Ray Drive
M-Station HT-1100 case
Radeon Video card don't have model # in front of me, but it's a high end card, also with HDMI out on it.

I have 2 of the HP Media Server boxes (those cute little compact black boxes) for additional storage as the HT-1100 case is somewhat limited for space.

As of yet, I have not purchased a sound card or tuner cards.

I currently have a single HR22 DTV box.

From the forums here I have gathered the following:

1. I need the PatersonTech USB TV Translators to control the Directv box.
I see one issue already, as my motherboard lacks antiquated serial connections, so I'm also going to need a card to provide that connection for the patterson cables.

Get a BAFO BF-810 for serial port

2. Hauppauge HDTV Tuners cards, 2 of them. Not certain if there is a specific logic for choosing one model over another at the moment. But I'll sort that out as I go along.

To record HDTV from a DirecTV box you will need the HDPVR

3. advice seems to suggest I need 2 of the HR22 units. A previous post I found here suggests that I need 2 Hauppauge cards for each HR22 box. Is this correct, even though the HVR-1800 for example is a dual tuner card?

HDPVR is only device capable of capturing the HD output of Sat box.

At the moment, I'm using my HR22 strictly for SD. I haven't upgraded my dish yet, and I was holding off my HDTV purchase for one of the new LED TV units which I'll be purchasing as soon as I finish this box.

I have 4 boys, all pretty young. and they are brutal on Discs, and record all kinds of crap.

I know what you mean. Sometimes it is difficult to rip discs and load to the server without killing enthusiasm for the newly purchased movie.

I bought the 2 HP media servers so I could basically RIP our entire "popular list" DVD collection to the servers for playback. To date, I think I've purchased Harry Potter films at least twice per film as they tend to get the crap beat out of them and scratched up.

Also I would LOVE to avoid the "DAD!! I can't find (insert movie title here) complaints that always arise on Saturday night. Of course that will end up becoming "DAD!! I can't find the remote!!"

Check out BMT as an add on.

Not to mention I'd love for them to watch Pokemon ANYWHERE ELSE but where I am.

Based on the above, am I missing anything that is a necessity/relevant to make this an easy to use for the entire family?

In my experience, the SageTV is better left alone in a closet somewhere and use the HD 200 for playback at the TVs. The hardware in the extenders can playback quite a few different formats and are quiet. My only complaint is that the LED lights are quite bright.

thanks.

Good luck!

[scat]

Do you know why it is called a Led TV?
Some Info on Led TV
What’s an LED TV?
Light-emitting diode television

[Dark Overlord]

I have a pretty good understanding of the whole HDTV, need HDPVR etc. I'm just lacking in knowledge of the setup to put all the pieces together basically.

A few more questions to throw out....

1. What is BMT?

2. I understood the need for the HDPVR card to capture output from the HR22. My actual question however was different. Lets assume for a sec. that I'm only going to be dealing with just one HR22 box.

I buy Hauppage DUAL tuner PVR card. (if I'm missing something, my apologies as I have not looked at the models of cards in detail yet) I presume they have dual tuner HD cards.

Can that dual tuner card deal with BOTH channels coming out of the HR22, or do I actually need one card per channel coming out of the HR22. That was my sticking point. If that is indeed the case, then I would need a total of 4 cards if I wish to have a second HR22.

Another thing that was driving me nuts is "Remote Control Mania" as every item seems to have it's own remote control device. My M-Station HT-1100 came with a a remote to control the iMon panel that came with the case. At the moment I'm going to assume that hopefully this remote will control Sage, and Sage will control the Hauppage cards and the DTV etv, not me using multiple remotes.

Ripping discs to the server isn't a big deal. I've got a couple programs for that which make it pretty easy to deal with. Also I'm a long time tech guy, tons of experience with systems. Just NOT building HTPC's. My home workspace has a 24 port gigabit switch controlling a dozen plus dual CPU systems for a network and render system with a multi monitor setup. And when I say multi monitor, I'm not talking dual monitor. I mean 6 monitors networked.

@ Scat, yes I do. I also got to check out a number of systems side by side with individual hook ups, not all chained with the signal distributed to multiple systems. That which Samsung is calling "LED TV" was leaps and bounds better picture than the other units I looked at set up, not to mention being very compact and having lots of extra cool features.

[Fuzzy]

The Hauppauge Dual HD Tuner cards capture ATSC, and QAM, neither of which is output from the HR22 box. The only way to record from the HR22 is with the Hauppauge HD-PVR, which will record one component video stream. as far as I know, the HR22 only has one component output, therefore you're only going to get one signal into and HD-PVR and into the computer. For Sage use, you would be far better off with a coupe simple single tuner HD receivers, each going into a separate Hauppauge HD-PVR, connected to the SageTV computer.

[Dark Overlord]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The Hauppauge Dual HD Tuner cards capture ATSC, and QAM, neither of which is output from the HR22 box. The only way to record from the HR22 is with the Hauppauge HD-PVR, which will record one component video stream. as far as I know, the HR22 only has one component output, therefore you're only going to get one signal into and HD-PVR and into the computer. For Sage use, you would be far better off with a coupe simple single tuner HD receivers, each going into a separate Hauppauge HD-PVR, connected to the SageTV computer.

Okay, so.....

1. No Tuner cards required unless I'm capturing HD from antenna. Check.

2. If I was capturing ONLY HD.... one HDPVR per DTV HD Reciever due to the iputs. That suddenly got expensive.

3. I would still need the Patterson cables as that is being used to control the HR22 from my HTPC's remote.

Is this it regarding the subject of ONLY HD? I can start charging up my credit card now?

Stage 2..... Lets talk SD only for a moment.

SD signals from my HR22. Which is what I currently record. Veggie Tales and 321 Penguins aren't broadcast HD anyway, plus a lot of the junk they record and watch isn't HD either. So for now, I'll still have some stuff to record and store temporarily as SD only.

what do I need to buy for that? I think in typing my reply, a couple things suddenly became clear to me. A Dual Tuner DVR, has two lines going in so you can control what gets recorded to IT'S DVR. But only one output.

It's a pity that DirecTV decided to scrap that neat little USB Tuner device that everyone was buzzing about last year. It would have really made for a cool addition to a HTPC setup.
So does THIS work:

I buy 4 non DVR receivers. 2 HD and 2 SD.
I buy ONE Hauppauge dual tuner card for the 2 SD receivers. attaching one receiver to each connection, or do I buy two separate single tuner cards?
I buy 2 HD PVR units for the HD receivers.
I buy a serial card to handle 4 Pattterson cables.

that about it?

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by Dark Overlord

Okay, so.....

1. No Tuner cards required unless I'm capturing HD from antenna. Check.

You could use a tuner card to capture output from the H22 but it won't be HD. You just need to set the sat box to output to 480i only.

2. If I was capturing ONLY HD.... one HDPVR per DTV HD Reciever due to the iputs. That suddenly got expensive.

If you want to capture ANY HD from an H22, you need an HD-PVR

3. I would still need the Patterson cables as that is being used to control the HR22 from my HTPC's remote.

The Paterson and BAFO units (provided you didn't add a PCI card are required for control of the box.

Is this it regarding the subject of ONLY HD? I can start charging up my credit card now?

Stage 2..... Lets talk SD only for a moment.

SD signals from my HR22. Which is what I currently record. Veggie Tales and 321 Penguins aren't broadcast HD anyway, plus a lot of the junk they record and watch isn't HD either. So for now, I'll still have some stuff to record and store temporarily as SD only.

what do I need to buy for that? I think in typing my reply, a couple thigns became clear. A Dual Tuner DVR, has two lines going in so you can control what gets recorded to IT'S DVR. But only one output. So it would be one tuner card per reciever regardless correct?

It's a pity that DirecTV decided to scrap that neat little USB Tuner device that everyone was buzzing about last year. It would have really made for a cool addition to a HTPC setup.

So for every channel I want to record at the same time, lets say 4.......
I need 4 of the single tuner Hauppage cards, and 4 straight DTV recievers.

that about it?

You can use a dual tuner card like the HVR-2250. Also, you could look on ebay for the pvr-500 or an nvidia dualtv.

B

[Fuzzy]

Sounds like you're starting to get it. SD capture would be just fine with an older (and therefore cheaper) PVR-500 (Dual Analog NTSC capture card). Run S-Vid from each of the SD boxes.

You don't specifically need to get SD receivers for the SD capture. HD boxes have the S-Video output as well, and will scale down the HD to the SD output. This in most cases will end up in better quality than the SD only boxes, as the compression artifacts are not as prevalent in the HD broadcast. In most cases, an HD box and an SD box cost about the same anyways (under leasing programs). This allows some future upgradability as well.

So, for instance, if you wanted to start cheap, you could get 4 single HD boxes, and two PVR-500 (NTSC) capture cards. This would get you the ability to capture 4 simultaneous SD recordings, even from the higher quality HD broadcasts.

Than, later, as the budget allows, you can purchase an HD-PVR, and use it for one of the boxes (making that encoder the highest merit, so it gets used for the higher priority recordings). Over time, as budgeting allows, you can add another HD-PVR at a time, ultimately getting up to all 4 being HD capable.

If you started out with HVR-2250's (Dual ATSC/QAM/NTSC) instead of one or both of the PVR-500's, you could then use the unused portions for OTA reception as they are freed up by HD-PVR's.

As for controlling the receivers, there are some options. The Patterson type is probably the most fool-proof, but does cost a bit. ($35 for each patterson, plus USB or PCI serial ports if your PC doesn't have enough). A slightly cheaper option would be to use an IR blaster like the USB-UIRT ($55), which has 3 zones, and therefore could be used for 3 of your boxes. I use IR for my 3 dish network 211's, and they've never missed a digit.

The great thing about Sage, is that since it is so versatile, this type of upgrading works great, and has really very little downsides.

[Dark Overlord]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Sounds like you're starting to get it.

Yeah, I'm a reasonably bright individual so I learn quick.

I'm not all that concerned about the minimal costs of the patterson cables, and it sounds like the better way to go, but only because I have seen people have issues with IR Blaster, but seem to see that the Patterson cables appear to be 100%. But that's based on 2 days of poking around the forum here.

It's a pity that this is still a not really so easy, user friendly kind of deal to set up. It's not particularly cost effective, and it inevitably leads to a lot of boxes piled up under your TV or in your entertainment stand just to record multiple programs.

As it stands, I'm looking at a very DEEP case for my HTPC, 4 Directv tuners
2 HP Media Server boxes, and up to 4 HD PVR units over time. 11 items. WOW. All to be a complete gear geek

I'd love to see this become more practical a bit faster than it has. Just those DirecTV USB devices they talked about last year would have reduced at least 4 boxes from the above stated 11 items. It would also be nice if I could get the HD Signal to MY computer, my supplied hard drives, instead of one someone else built (HD PVR)to sell to me. I could remove another 4 devices from the above list. 3 devices really beats the hell out of 11.

[Fuzzy]

Well, to be fair, the Media Server boxes are definately overkill, and could easily be replaced with just larger HDD's in the server, or a couple external drives. As for simplicity, the reason it is complicated and uses multiple devices per recording is to overcome the limitations imposed specifically to protect content. If you want simplicity, you use non-protected content (OTA ATSC) which would run directly to the back of the server's tuner cards and that would be that. The complexity is caused by the provider choosing NOT to implement some sort of PC based device, but they do it at the pressure of the content owners. Even if DTV had released the USB device, theres a good chance it would not have worked with SageTV, and would be locked down to MCE on specific OEM computers, without the ability to use extenders/placeshifter/comskip just like the CabelCard implementation.

You are actually using the most complicated of options with DirecTV. Dish network COULD be easier if you used R-5000 mod'd boxes, as it brings the signal directly into the PC via USB, and contorls the box directly, eliminating both the blaster/patterson AND the HD-PVR... they aren't cheap though. You might also be one of the people who can get relatively unblocked QAM on your local cable, but the only way to find out is to try.