Rogers Box Setup

[lcdguy]

I am getting rogers and i am hoping i get the 4250 tuner box. My question is i currently have a SAGE TV based HTPC and would love to conntect the HD box to it so i can record and what not. Is this possible with my curent video hardware.

Videocard - Onboard ATIHD3200 with HDMI out
Tuner - Diamond Theater 650pci-e

Or will i need something extra like the hauppage hd-pvr box.

Also how easy is it to setup an ir blaster (i have never used one before so i am not sure.)

I would love to have this but if it's going to cost a bunch of cash just to record i will pass on it.

[Skiier__Dude]

Hi,

If you want to record HDTV from your Rogers STB, you're going to need a new tuner card. Yours only has an S-Video input so you can only record SD signals. The HD-PVR is a good option assuming that the Rogers STB has Component Video Outputs -- you can buy them at FutureShop now. The HD-PVR comes with an IR blaster. I've had great success with the USB-UIRT for years as an alternative to the IR blaster.

Your costs would be $299 for the HD-PVR and $50 if you went with the USB-UIRT.

PS: your tuner card has an ATSC tuner built in -- not sure where you are located but if you are relatively close to the US, you can likely stick up an antenna and pick up free OTA HD signals and record those for free. Might be worth your while to test it out and see what you can pick up before you go to the expenses of the Rogers/Hauppauge boxes. Good forum here that discusses OTA signals by location in Canada: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=81

[lcdguy]

Originally Posted by Skiier__Dude

Hi,

If you want to record HDTV from your Rogers STB, you're going to need a new tuner card. Yours only has an S-Video input so you can only record SD signals. The HD-PVR is a good option assuming that the Rogers STB has Component Video Outputs -- you can buy them at FutureShop now. The HD-PVR comes with an IR blaster. I've had great success with the USB-UIRT for years as an alternative to the IR blaster.

Your costs would be $299 for the HD-PVR and $50 if you went with the USB-UIRT.

PS: your tuner card has an ATSC tuner built in -- not sure where you are located but if you are relatively close to the US, you can likely stick up an antenna and pick up free OTA HD signals and record those for free. Might be worth your while to test it out and see what you can pick up before you go to the expenses of the Rogers/Hauppauge boxes. Good forum here that discusses OTA signals by location in Canada: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=81

thanks, I already have the HD OTA running. The problem is i am in ottawa and i face north. So all i get on hi-def is CBC and SunTV and that's it.

one more question how does an IR blaster actually work. I never got how it works and allows you to change the channel simultaneously on the HTPC and the HD Box.

[Skiier__Dude]

Well, the USB-UIRT blaster has both a transmitter that you stick on the window of your STB and a receiver. The receiver takes in the IR signal from your remote and translates it for Sage. Sage sends the channel changes to the transmitter to change channels on the STB.

[lcdguy]

Agh thanks other than the hd-pvr are there any other tuners preferably cards that support hi def input ?

[Slugger]

No. Only the HD-PVR can capture HD content from an STB. Other tuners, such as the HDHR, are capable of capturing clear QAM signals along with OTA signals, but if you want to capture premium content (Movie Network, HBO, Discovery, Sportsnet/TSN, etc.) in HD then you must use the HD-PVR.

[lcdguy]

ok that looks like the only way so my other question are there any issues with teh hd-pvr not being compatible with sage TV or does it work pretty muchly out of the box.

[Skiier__Dude]

Well, you've got some reading ahead of you Depends on so many things -- OS, RAM, Java, Sage-release, CPU, heat, number of IR devices in the room.

Use the latest driver from Hauppauge (not the one that comes with it). I use it with Windows Home Server, with an AMD A2 5300 and 2Gb RAM and it's very stable -- almost perfect in fact. There was an issue with ExpressVu/Dishnet STBs where Dolby 5.1 wouldn't record, but those are fixed for me.

Suggest you read Brent's recommendations on this thread.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...t=41479&page=2

The HD-PVR is by no means perfect. It's a great deal better than it has been in the past and it's the only game in town. If you read carefully, your likelihood for success is very high.

[lcdguy]

i don't think i am going to bother. Recording TV is just not that important to me.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by lcdguy

i don't think i am going to bother. Recording TV is just not that important to me.

Then there's not much point in using SageTV as that is its primary purpose and why some of us have systems where we can record 4-5 shows simultaneously!

[vikingisson]

Originally Posted by lcdguy

i don't think i am going to bother. Recording TV is just not that important to me.

I hear you, except for me it is watching live is not important to me, recording is the only way. Here's what I do until I can afford a hi-def capture device:
My sat box has component out, my sagetv has component out; I run both (plus digital audio) through my Yamaha amp and then to the monitor and real speakers. I use the sat box s-video out for recording in sage. If the show is worth watching live I'll switch the amp and get the higher resolution, otherwise I record via s-video (using the IR blaster for channel changing).
Funny how we've gone full circle, the best resolution right now is OTA. I've seen Roger's and Bell's so called hi def and no way I'd pay extra for it compared to the free OTA HD.

[wayner]

The only problem with your setup is the problem you always get when you want to use the same box for recording and live playback - conflicts. You will be watching TV and all of a sudden the channel will change because Sage wants to record a show. Or you will screw up a recording by changing the channel while Sage is recording. The best way to avoid these conflicts is to try to record shows in the middle of the night.

You're right OTA offers the best quality and has the additional advantage of being the easiest way to get HD into a TV. One problem is that the best content, at least in my opinion, is only available on premiume channels like TMN, TSN, RSN, etc. that are only available via cable/sat. The second problem is that most people in Canada don't have access to OTA HD and where they do there is a very limited channel selection - that's not the case here in Toronto but most every other region of the country has very little OTA HD.

[vikingisson]

No issue yet with conflicts, I rarely ever watch live tv. If I do I'll hit pause at the 1st commercial and come back later to watch the rest. Recordings are typically done when I'm not around. It isn't like the old days where you could easily surf, digital devices these days are much too slow to make that tolerable.

Sorry the hear that OTA HD is slim pickings up here. I'm near enough to T.O. to get a few local channels plus Buffalo. Content is still crap but on the other hand I can't justify paying for premium channels. If I wanted two $$ channels they would no doubt be on two tiers and I'd have to pay a fortune. Ain't gonna happen.

My hope is that analog cable stays around for many more years because I'm not going to be forced into their digital packages. Same crap for more money doesn't appeal to me (analog cable via a tuner card beats their digital service by a mile). But the main reason is that for digital cabled systems (or if you hook up the phone line for sat systems, or anything that does on demand) you will be uploading your activity to the provider. If I'm to be the new style Neilson system I expect to get paid for it, not pay them.

[wayner]

I think the day is soon that analog cable is gone, at least for the major players like Rogers. There are too many benefits for them to go that way, not the least of which is having more control over their network.

I have been on digital since it began in Canada and I have had HD cable box(es) for over 7 years, you won't find me switching back. And even if they were selling viewership data I don't know how accurate it would be - I always leave the cable boxes on. I have three boxes hooked up to my Sage server but I don't always watch what is being recorded by those boxes - I probably delete have of the stuff that I record without every watching it.

[vikingisson]

I think it will be a long time before they shut down analog cable. No doubt they would like to but until they can sucker most people into digital they can't afford it. It will be the smaller providers that do it first I'll bet. If I'm not buying HD or the other overpriced digital features there is no advantage to me. I already digitize the analog signal with sage which is much better than what cable co can give me for the price. I don't need their box, EPG or anything from them. In return they don't get to sell my data and charge me extra for it. My video looks just as good and I have no interest in what they offer beyond basic analog. OTA HD is free and better looking.

So until >480 becomes the norm and they don't charge extra for what should be the base offering I'm not buying. Like the cell phone business it is substandard and overpriced in Canada. Oh, the two (plus satellite) are run by the same companies, go figure....

[wayner]

It's going to happen sooner than you think. Pretty much everyone who has an HDTV is going to have an HD digital box. Once 85% of customers are on digital then the shutdown can begin - see this story from Oct 2007. I would put the over/under for Rogers shutting off analog at Oct 2012. Rogers also makes it pretty much impossible for new customers to sign up for analog cable.

Under rules set by the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, cable companies have the option of turning off analogue signals if they can show more than 85 per cent of their customers are on digital.

Canada's largest cable provider, Rogers Communications Inc., now has more than 50 per cent of customers on digital and is expected to surpass that threshold in three to four years.

[vikingisson]

I don't believe their target dates. How long did the OTA digital switch take compared to the expert predictions.... Oh, not yet and not up here although I'm on digital and don't need analog OTA.
But no problem if they force it on me, I won't be a customer and won't cry at all. I'm not paying for their crap and I'm not putting in a box that will be restrictive. Heck I don't even own a t.v. yet. My 22" monitor is fine until it gets a lot cheaper or there is something worth my meager savings.

They might switch eventually and there might be true competition in the cell phones and landlines but I doubt it will be fairly priced for a long time. I'm probably in a small minority but the Canadian offerings are a long way from meeting my needs. 'cides, it's kinda fun and a whole lot cheaper building my own digital services such as tv, phone, alarm, etc.

edit-> I'm not saying that the U.S. offerings are any better in fact U.S. t.v. is for the most part even worse. That's why basic analog over cable, FTA sat, digital OTA, and online is a better choice for me.

[vikingisson]

This is classic. Just for giggles I checked what digital offerings are out there for me. I stopped before reading most of it, there is an "HDTV Access Fee" on top of the HD channel fees plus I would have to subscribe to the SD version of any HD channels I want. Sounds like the cell business. Sorry Charlie, ain't gonna happen, ever.

[wayner]

I find that the bulk of the HD we watch is sports and movies. Movies are only available with a digital cable subscription (I don't count commercial laden, edited movies on OTA channels) and you only get the HD sports channels with digital cable.

I pay about $100/month to Rogers for cable as I get premium channels such as TMN and Setanta sports (Setanta alone is $15/month). While I wish it was lower I have well over $10,000 invested in electronics if you include my five HDTVs, four digital receivers, nine digital cable boxes, four Sage extenders, HTPC, etc so I don't think it makes sense to skimp and not have access to all of the content that I want to watch in HD.

And with my Sage server with two HD-PVRs connected to HD cable boxes I can watch it all in HD anywhere in my house on my extenders/clients.

[vikingisson]

Definitely a different market segment than I am. I don't yet own a t.v., I use a monitor but it does HD. I don't have a cell phone or landline, I run my own PBX. The laptop is my remote t.v. but I'm looking at getting an extender. Sage and a few bits allow me to mix all my free and low cost media into one system that gives me the flex to do what I want at a very low cost.
And there's the problem, my needs are of no interest to the providers. Instead of selling me something basic yet useful so I can handle my own feature set they discourage me from buying any service at all. The overhead to provide me a no nonsense drop cable is minimal but they don't offer what I want anymore.
And with hockey in full swing right now it looks amazing in HD via the old fashion antenna for free and I get to pause, record, & replay to my heart's content. Actually I would be very easy to please and would never require tech support. Maybe if the economy gets bad enough they will be more interested in subscribers like myself. But so far and to my surprise I'm seeing the opposite, fewer honest choices and higher prices for anything of quality which "stimulates" me to buy even less.

Having said that my boss is now jealous of my system and wants one too. But he'll have the HD cable service and several big screen tvs so I'll build a more traditional system with all the goodies. And he'll pay a great deal more per month than I do.