Have you a better idea? I'm open!

[billkalicious]

First, I want to compliment you all on an awesome board and SageTV for great software. I've gotten lots of answers in these hallowed halls, as have so many others. I've been using Sage since version 4.

I apologize for the long post, but I want to include all the details in hopes someone in the 'Interwebs' has an idea of something to try. I've been all over Google and these forums, as well as those for other products and I'm stumped. The short story, playback of TV shows whether live or recorded stutter frequently. The stutter is random and is in the recording, rewind shows the stutter again. The stutter happens when played back on both servers and both client machines.

I have two recording machines. The master (I'll call server) has one HD-PVR. The slave (I'll call NE machine) has four PVR-150s in a network encoder setup (using SageTV, not recorder). Two are coax and two are composite to STBs. I wanted them all in the same box, but the PDSME board I bought for the new server with the HD-PVR won't even turn on with the cards installed, but that's a thread for another time.

HD playback is beautiful. It's recorded on the server to the local drive (3TB in Raid5). When I watch stuff recorded by any of the network encoders and the recordings are stored on the server, they stutter. I have applied the latest drivers from Hauppauge and the registry change. Before I did that, I had corrupt timeline issues (told ya I've been all over this board!) This happens even when there is only one show being recorded (only one PVR in use at the time)

CPU usage is minimal on both machines when recording from the NEs. Network traffic is ~5%. Both machines have gigabit cards, with jumbo frames even. Thinking it was a network issue, I have joined the master and server on their own network via straight cable between the two. Same result. I've tried different network cables, same result. I disabled jumbo frames to see if that might be causing the problem, same result. I have tried reducing the quality, as found on a thread here. Yup, you guess it, same result.

Now, here's the catch. If I set Sage to record to the NE hard drive (single 120GB) the NE recordings playback without a glitch. The HD playback is a little choppy tho, my guess is the double trip to the NE machine and back to the server for playback. So, I set Sage to record to both the raid array AND the hard drive on the NE box. I set the threshold for the raid array way above the amount of available space and told it to use all available on the NE box. This means that Sage will be looking for recordings in both places, but will only actually record to the NE box. Make sense?

As a test, I wrote an app that moves the completed recordings from the NE box to the server. After a significant amount of time (10 minutes maybe), Sage will again see the file and play it back after the move. This isn't really feasible in my mind, but does sort of work.

I don't want to replace the motherboard or the PVRs, but will explore that if I find nothing else.

My ultimate goal would be to have all PVRs on the server, so if anyone has any idea why that SuperMicro PDSME motherboard won't even turn on with the 150s in it, I'm all ears. Barring my own Holy Grail, I'd be happy if the recordings could be recorded on the server without stuttering or a corrupt timeline, however that is accomplished. I'd rather not have to remember to move the recordings when the NE HD gets full and I'll probably not use my app since there's the delay when the show is unavailable.

Here are the specs for the machines:
Server:
SuperMicro PDSME with Pentium 805D
4GB of ECC ram, not sure of the speed
3TB Raid5 storage, 80GB single HD for the OS
HD-PVR on USB
Windows Server Standard R2 x64

NE:
Compaq something
P4 1.7Ghz
512MB RAM
120GB single drive for storage 15GB single for OS
Windows XP Pro

All machines are running 6.4.8. I had the same problem in 6.5.9, but reinstalled 6.4.8 due to other issues with the latest.

Can you see why I'd like to decommission the NE box? It was my original Sage server and worked great. Never had a problem until I started pushing the recordings to my file server or the new Sage server. I'm resonably sure that machine can handle the load since 1) it works great when it's the server and 2) recordings are OK when recorded on the NEs local hard drive.

I'm also pretty confident that the problem is not in SageTV per se, but in how the cards write the data. I'm only posting here because the help is so great and I'm truly stumped. Plus, I might luck out and find that I can change a setting in sage.properties like EnableStutterInRecordings=false. <G> Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

Help me Narflex, save me Opus4! Is Stanger still around? (again, long time searcher/reader)

[Opus4]

Are the main recording drives formatted using 64K clusters? No antivirus actively monitoring/scanning the recording dirs?

- Andy

[paulbeers]

Check out Hauppauge's website. The PVR500's and PVR150's can NOT be installed in a system with 4GB of ram or greater. While this shouldn't affect the booting (really will only affect your setup once you make it into windows), but just letting you know that will be another issue.


Oh and per Hauppauge's website, you need a hardware "change" to run a PVR150 in a PCIX slot. See here: http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/faq/s...pvr150.html#23

[Djc208]

As a test, I wrote an app that moves the completed recordings from the NE box to the server. After a significant amount of time (10 minutes maybe), Sage will again see the file and play it back after the move. This isn't really feasible in my mind, but does sort of work.

Do recordings made/moved in this way play back OK? If so it sounds like your problem would have something to do with recording to the RAID array on the server over the network. As a test you could set up a recording directory on the server OS drive big enough to hold a few recordings and let the NE dump a recording or two there. If they work then the RAID setup is your problem. How are you doing RAID on the server, software or hardware?

I don't know why that would be your issue as I'm no RAID expert, but you've wiped out many of the other options with your testing so far.

[billkalicious]

Thanks for the replies all!

Andy: I was surprised to learn that the server raid is formatted with 4K clusters, not 64K. There is no antivirus software installed. Before I move everything to the filer (15-18 hours worth of gigabit transfer) and reformat, wouldn't the smaller cluster size affect the HD recordings as well?

paulbeers: Wow, that stinks. I've sent email as directed by that link to see what I have to cut/solder on the card for the mod to get it to work in an X slot. Thanks for the tip! I'll figure out the 4GB thing when I figure out if I'm doing the mod to the cards or not.

Djc208: I'm doing hardware raid with 5-750GB Spinpoint drives and an Areca ARC-1260 controller card. Since HD recordings playback perfect when recorded to that drive, I don't think the problem is that bit of hardware, but will give your suggestion a shot tonight. I'm up for anything. When recording to the local NE hard drive, the NE recordings are perfect.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by billkalicious

When recording to the local NE hard drive, the NE recordings are perfect.

If you record to the NE hard drive then move that file to the RAID, does it still play back properly or does it act the same as shows saved to the RAID directly?

It sounded like that worked, which is what made me think it had something to do with how the RAID setup is handling these files. If it records to the OS drive on the server without stutter then it would be conformation that it was some issue with the combination of the network and the RAID controller while recording.

My thought process is that since the file would be sent as chunks to the RAID as it's recorded it may just end up being fragmented across the RAID drives vice being moved and processed by the RAID as one file. The HD PVR is a fatter stream being HD and lower latency since it's hooked to the server so it doesn't suffer the same issue. I have no real expertise here, it's just the logic I see based on your extensive testing so far and my limited understanding of the systems involved.

Good luck.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by billkalicious

paulbeers: Wow, that stinks. I've sent email as directed by that link to see what I have to cut/solder on the card for the mod to get it to work in an X slot.

When you find out what needs to be done in order to get a PVR150 to work on a PCIX slot, let us know. While I have no intention of running a motherboard with PCIX for my sage server, I am just really curious what they mean by a "hardware charge"....

[billkalicious]

Originally Posted by Djc208

If you record to the NE hard drive then move that file to the RAID, does it still play back properly or does it act the same as shows saved to the RAID directly?

I changed Sage to record to the system drive on the server and that stuttered at about the same rate as when it goes to the 3TB disk. When shows are recorded to the NE disk and copied over (via app or manually), they playback great, no stutters no dropouts of any kind.

Paul: I'll be sure to update this thread when I hear something. I'm into amateur radio too, so wielding a soldering iron doesn't scare me. PCI-X wasn't my choice either, but the board was cheap and so was the Areca card, which is PCI-X.

I'm curious what Andy will say about the 4K clusters. I'd think that the HD recordings would act the same way. We'll see. Thanks for all the input guys! Anyone else have any ideas?

[gplasky]

If it is formatted with 4K clusters it is just a matter of time before the stutters will begin. It will become obvious once you start getting more recordings on there and start deleting recordings. ANd the lobger yo wait the more recordings you will have to move. This is why the manual and the installation wizard recommends the 64K cluster size.

Gerry

[billkalicious]

Originally Posted by gplasky

If it is formatted with 4K clusters it is just a matter of time before the stutters will begin. It will become obvious once you start getting more recordings on there and start deleting recordings. ANd the lobger yo wait the more recordings you will have to move. This is why the manual and the installation wizard recommends the 64K cluster size.

Gerry

Good call. I didn't think about fragmentation. I understand about 'the longer you wait' bit. Apparently, we really need every episode of American Idol. I'm already over a TB. The filer is only one TB. Looks like American Idol will have to go, but we'll have to keep MythBusters.

On the cards, I got a response from Hauppauge. They need the revision numbers for the cards. So, keep that in mind when you go to contact them. I'll keep updating this post as I learn more. Thanks all!

[billkalicious]

RMA? Yes. So, I'm sending my PVR150s to Hauppauge in NY to have them fix the cards to work in a PCI-X slot. He wouldn't tell me what it involved, so I can't do it myself, but hopefully I'll have all cards in one server soon. The PVR-250 is hopeless since it's keyed to only fix a PCI slot. Oh well. He said they usually return them in 4 days. Hopefully that will be true.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by billkalicious

RMA? Yes. So, I'm sending my PVR150s to Hauppauge in NY to have them fix the cards to work in a PCI-X slot. He wouldn't tell me what it involved, so I can't do it myself, but hopefully I'll have all cards in one server soon. The PVR-250 is hopeless since it's keyed to only fix a PCI slot. Oh well. He said they usually return them in 4 days. Hopefully that will be true.

I think you are making a wise decision. On top of reducing the complexity of your system, you are also going to reduce your energy usage by putting the cards in your main server.