Which processor should I buy for this setup?

[Djc208]

The effeciency of the power supply is only half the battle. It also needs to be sized for the load. If you go back to the anandtech link from above. They've done a lot of good reviews of power supplies. But regardless of size the effeciency curve of a PSU peaks at some percentage of it's total output. Ideally you want the normal running wattage of your server to match that peak. In many cases (especially on a server) this means <500 watts.

My gaming rig barely pulls over 250 watts from the wall, and that includes the 19" CRT. My server is usually around 100~120 depending on load.

[TorontoSage]

There's been a lot of great discussion about the effect of processor speed number of cores with regard to SageTV performance.

But, aside from this, I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on how the size of the L2 cache affects performance in recording and playing back video in SageTV, assuming the encoding task is already being performed by something like the Hauppauge HD PVR and the decoding is handled by a SageTV HD100/200 extender. (I'll leave transcoding, commercial skip detection and placeshifting aside for now).

For example, is 2MB of L2 cache enough? If not, then how will 4MB affect the performance? I am sure it won't double the performance, but how will the performance differ? One situation I could see my server in is recording 2 HD programs (using 2 HD PVRs) while playing back 2 or more (I'll likely have 5 or 6 extenders) already recorded programs and stopping rewinding, fast fowarding these programss. Would more cache increase performance so that it was actually perceptible?

[spyork]

Hey TorontoSage, what heatsink/fan are you using to cool your Quad 9550 CPU? Are you just using the stock HSF or did you get an aftermarket cooler? Thanks...

[TorontoSage]

Can't tell you yet, as I am just about to implement the server (using a laptop currently).

The cpu is the only component that is still up in the air. I am getting the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R motherboard (only slightly different from the UD3P in that it doesn't have Crossfire support but is less expensive).

What I've found is that the Q9550 might be way overkill for a SageTV system. The dual core E5200 2.5GHz 2MB L2 Cache 65 watt cpu is available at only $62 with shipping from Dell right now, whereas the Q9550 quad core 2.85 Ghz 12MB L2 cache 95 watt cpu is $245 with shipping. The CPU's are close to the same speed, the E5200 is lower wattage and $183 cheaper. It seems that only commercial skip detection, transcoding and placeshifting may benefit from the quad core (but I am not sure about from the L2 cache), and I will not be doing the latter two functions. And, with commercial skip detection, I will rarely, if ever, be doing it on the fly anyway, but offline as I rarely watch live TV anymore.

So, given all of the other components will be exactly the same and the Gigabyte board accepts both cpu's I may just go with the E5200, but haven't made a firm decision yet. I can always upgrade to a quad core later (but not an i7 cpu as the board will not accept them) and likely, with price drops, pay less than the current price difference to buy the Q9550. And then I can still sell the E5200.

Also, I am not a gamer and will only be using the CPU for SageTV so that removed a reason that others might have for the Q9550 (but then I've seen many gamers by the E5200 too.)

So, I don't think I will have cooler issues.

Hence the question above.

[spyork]

FYI...The 65W quad-cores are trickling out too, but they are more expensive right now. There is a 65W version of the Q9550. I believe it is the Q9550S. Just something else to think about in the future...

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by spyork

FYI...The 65W quad-cores are trickling out too, but they are more expensive right now. There is a 65W version of the Q9550. I believe it is the Q9550S. Just something else to think about in the future...

Yes there is. I investigated it too as I am a bit of a greenie and very concerned about power consumption. As you mentioned, the Q9550S is more expensive than the Q9550 and difficult to find. I've seen a couple on eBay and from just a few other retail online vendors. They were a lot more expensive ($100 or more when I checked in Feb/09). I wouldn't go to the Q9550S just for the power consumption issue. (I think I calculated it would take 4 years to make up the difference in extra cost of the cpu through the savings in electricity at 10c/KWh).

I think that power consumption will be more of a focus for cpu manufacturers in the future and I hope that 65w cpu and lower will be the standard.

I recently reviewed my power supply choice after reading an online article about server electricity consumption and power supply efficiency. I've found that most power supply vendors suggest an over-rated power supply when you use their online tools. Not surprising given their interest in higher revenue generation. Power supplies tend to be a lot more efficient if they are properly sized for the demand, so this is important from an ongoing electrical consumption point-of-view, aside from the inital cost of the power supply. So I calculated my min and max power consumption for the server assuming either the 65w or 95w chip, with the Radeon 9400GT video card (which I only need to set up the WHS server, not for ongoing use) and 6 x 1.5TB hard drives (all of which I won't have in the beginning, but will eventually expand to so I want to make sure I have a power supply that can handle the load), 4GB of SDRAM, the Gigabyte motherboard, 2 x 120mm fans, a DVD drive and do not need the Corsair 620HW 620 watt power supply that I was going with, but use the 520HX 520 watt power supply. I chose these units as they have modular cabling.

[spyork]

TorontoSage, any reason why you're choosing the Samsung Spinpoint drives over the Western Digital Caviar Green drives?

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by spyork

TorontoSage, any reason why you're choosing the Samsung Spinpoint drives over the Western Digital Caviar Green drives?

Right now that is preliminary. I am still reviewing this decision. I was staying away from WD because they have DRM software included in their drives that limits the sharing of media files, but now I am told that that is only if you use their 'Connector' software. So I am going to take a look at the drives again.

[spyork]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

Right now that is preliminary. I am still reviewing this decision. I was staying away from WD because they have DRM software included in their drives that limits the sharing of media files, but now I am told that that is only if you use their 'Connector' software. So I am going to take a look at the drives again.

I was just curious, since I had decided on the WD Green drives. BTW...I was looking at the Corsair power supply you mentioned. I noticed it only has 4 SATA connectors. Are you just going to get some 4-pin molex to SATA adapters for your other SATA drives? Most of the power supplies with more than 4 SATA connectors are between 600-700 watts. At least that's what I noticed. I'm not sure what route to take...

[TorontoSage]

Thanks for reminding me about that. I will likely go with the WD Caviar Green 1TB now that I know that DRM is not an issue unless you use WD's Connector software.

There is a great review done recently by Tom's Hardware here about 1TB drives. The Caviar Green 1TB got a good review. They say:

'while there were three power-efficient drives by Samsung and Western Digital, which some people may want to consider for low-power solutions, media servers or home theater PCs. While the Samsung Eco Green drives are solid, we found a clear winner: WD’s Caviar Green (WD10EADS model) is by far the most efficient 3.5” terabyte hard drive available today. Be careful not to get the predecessor WD10EACS, as that one is rather lame compared to the latest model.'

Idle power on the Caviar Green is only 2.8w vs 4.3w on the next lowest power consumption drive. The Caviar Black is 6.5w and the Spinpoint is 6.8w. But then with streaming reads the difference between them are even greater (in the order of about 4 watts).

At idle, the difference is 1.5w per hour per drive. For 6 - 1 TB drives, which I'll likely have, running 24x365 at 10c/KWh that's only about $8/year, but then everything adds up right?.

[Peter_h]

I would stay away from the 1tb samsung spinpoint drives. Check out the newegg reviews.

I bought 5 when I first built my server. 3 failed within the first 10 days.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

I would stay away from the 1tb samsung spinpoint drives. Check out the newegg reviews.

I bought 5 when I first built my server. 3 failed within the first 10 days.

I have two but they've been no problem. I haven't read the reviews since I bought them about 8 months ago though. *shrug*

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by spyork

I was just curious, since I had decided on the WD Green drives. BTW...I was looking at the Corsair power supply you mentioned. I noticed it only has 4 SATA connectors. Are you just going to get some 4-pin molex to SATA adapters for your other SATA drives? Most of the power supplies with more than 4 SATA connectors are between 600-700 watts. At least that's what I noticed. I'm not sure what route to take...

I haven't contacted Corsair directly but from forum threads elsewhere I have found that there are 1x2 and 1x3 modular SATA power cables available from Corsair. The HX620 comes with 2 of the former and 1 of the latter (for a total of 8 SATA devices). The 1x3 is about 80cm total length and has about 15cm between each connector. So, with 4 - 1x3 SATA cables you will be able to power 12 hard drives. I don't know what cables the HX520 comes with but I am going to contact Corsair to find out.

I sized my PS by adding up the startup power requirements (which i think are usually the max) for all of the components (mobo, video card, SDRAM, fans, CPU, fully packed with 9 x 1TB hard disks but I think I could go up to 9 x 2 TB disks with this PS). I also checked the idle and running power requirements. The 520 watt power of the 520HX easily fulfilled the requirements which were a little over 400 watts maximum. Power supplies are most efficient if they are not way over-rated for the system, so this was important for me.

But, I am going to re-check my numbers!

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

I haven't contacted Corsair directly but from forum threads elsewhere I have found that there are 1x2 and 1x3 modular SATA power cables available from Corsair. The HX620 comes with 2 of the former and 1 of the latter (for a total of 8 SATA devices). The 1x3 is about 80cm total length and has about 15cm between each connector. So, with 4 - 1x3 SATA cables you will be able to power 12 hard drives. I don't know what cables the HX520 comes with but I am going to contact Corsair to find out.

I sized my PS by adding up the startup power requirements (which i think are usually the max) for all of the components (mobo, video card, SDRAM, fans, CPU, fully packed with 9 x 1TB hard disks but I think I could go up to 9 x 2 TB disks with this PS). I also checked the idle and running power requirements. The 520 watt power of the 520HX easily fulfilled the requirements which were a little over 400 watts maximum. Power supplies are most efficient if they are not way over-rated for the system, so this was important for me.

But, I am going to re-check my numbers!

In our scenarios, the only thing that matters for the PSU is the startup value. You have to make sure that you have enough to startup all of the hard drives. After that, the system should be fine. Most here don't run any crazy graphics cards that will need a ton of power.

[TorontoSage]

I re-checked my numbers and even when using 9 x 2TB WD Caviar Black drives instead of the WD Caviar Green and a Q9550 95w cpu instead of the E5200 65w cpu that I am now considering, the maximum load was 373 watts. The numbers were as follows for anyone calculating this:

9 x 2TB HDs @ 9w = 81w
2 x Fans @ 1w = 2w
1 x Q9550 CPU @ 95w
1 x Radeon 9400GT Video Card @ 50w
1 x GA-EP45-UD3R Motherboard @ 121w
1 x Blu-Ray DVD @ 20w
1 x 2 2GB SDRAM Modules @ 2w = 4w

Total = 373 watts peak

So, I was a little high on the estimate I had before. It is important to check the power requirement of your video card is important because although this can really up your power requirement. I am not a gamer and am only using the video card to install WHS on the server.

So, with the proper SATA cables it looks like the Corsair 520HX which provides 520 watts peak power will handle this server configuration easily.

EDIT: I found that the WD 2TB Caviar Green consumes 10w during startup. I haven't been able to find out what the Black version uses. But, at 10w this is still only 9 watts more for 9 drives if I used 2TB drives in each bay. Even if it was 20 watts for the Black version I'd still only be at 11w more per drive over the above calculation which is 472w max, but it is probably way lower than 20w. Still well within the 520w the PS can deliver.

EDIT: Add 2w per USB port that is drawing power and 7w per firewire port that is drawing power. There's a handy power supply calculator at http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp that you can use. I tried it using the above configuration and 2 USB and 2 Firewire current drawing ports (note: the HD PVR does not draw current as it has its own power supply) and got 472w for the E5200 cpu configuration and 495w for the Q9550 configuration. They are probably being conservative since other than the processors they don't know the exact model of components the system will have (such as the WD Green drives I am using, etc.). These numbers are still both easily handled by a 520w power supply.

[PLUCKYHD]

here is a question does anyone know if it is possible to buy additional power rails from corsair. I need more sata plugs than the 520w power gave me. I know I could use serial power adapters but I would rather purchase more sata rails anyone know where?

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by spyork

I was just curious, since I had decided on the WD Green drives. BTW...I was looking at the Corsair power supply you mentioned. I noticed it only has 4 SATA connectors. Are you just going to get some 4-pin molex to SATA adapters for your other SATA drives? Most of the power supplies with more than 4 SATA connectors are between 600-700 watts. At least that's what I noticed. I'm not sure what route to take...

Just to let you know I extensively reviewed my drive choice and I am finalizing on the Wester Digital Caviar Black 1TB hard drive, at least for the first drive in my WHS server. The Caviar Green apparently spins at anywhere from 5400rpm and up to 7200rpm (but some even say that that isn't true and that it only spins at 5400rpm). Also, apparently the heads power down when there is a period of inactivity and therefore there is a delay when they get accessed again. I guess these two design factors were employed in order to reduce the power consumption of these green drives. The Caviar Black spins at 7200 rpm. Not that this is the definitive evaluation of both drives, but 88% of 563 reviewers on newegg.com gave the Black drive 4 or 5 stars and 88% of 226 reviewers gave the Green drive 4 or 5 stars. So the % of pretty happy reviewers is the same, but more than double the reviewers bought the Black drive (maybe because it's been available longer),

In any event, given some warnings about possible stuttering due to the reasons mentioned, the fact the drive spins slower and because video is an application where there has to be smooth pausing and playback, I've decided to go with the Caviar Black instead of the Green. Also, this will be my first drive in the system and I want to be able to eliminate the drive performance as a factor if something doesn't work as I expect, I will likely get the Caviar Green for my second drive and then compare performance and if it is not up to par for SageTV I will use it for digital picture and music storage.

EDIT: I just realized that I could just check what drive is inside the Apricorn 1TB DVR Xpander that I have been using for expansion for my SA 8300HD PVR. It runs silent, cool and has been working flawlessly for 6 months. A friend who has the same one has had the same experience. So, I decided to find out which drive they are using. Well, low and behold it's the Caviar Green! I'd just take this out of the case and use it in my new server right away, but I have a lot of programs that I want to archive from it the HD PVR first, so I'll have to buy another 1TB drive for the server before I can do that.

So, given I already have a Caviar Green 1TB that I didn't know I had, I will just buy the Caviar Black 1TB as that means I'll have both the Black and the Green drives to compare. I plan to buy about 4 more 1TB (or even 1.5 or 2.0 TB drives) over the next year or so, so it will be good to have my own benchmark to base a decision upon.