Motion blur

[SageGk]

I'm having a problem with my extender setup. What I thought was a stutter, seems to be more like a "motion blur" to me now. I notice this when watching HD-PVR material on my HD200. Funny thing is, I have a samsung DLP and I thought DLP's didn't suffer from motion blur. I have the HD200 locked at 1080i connected via HDMI to a Sony DG-920 AVR. Anyone care to take a stab at it?

[ChuckSchick]

You might see if you experience the same "motion blur" at 720p.

720p is going to be better for anything "motiony"

random google hit on the subject: http://ezinearticles.com/?Eye-Candy?...80p?&id=123148

[SageGk]

I may go to 720p, but you think it'll sacrifice PQ with the HD-PVR?

[TechJunkie]

Originally Posted by SageGk

I may go to 720p, but you think it'll sacrifice PQ with the HD-PVR?

SageGk,

All HD braodcast are 720p or lower. There are a lot of advantages setting your STB to output 720p. You will not loose any picture quality since the STB will have to upscale if you have it output anything higher then 720p. Sage HD will do the Upscaling for you.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by TechJunkie

All HD braodcast are 720p or lower. There are a lot of advantages setting your STB to output 720p. You will not loose any picture quality since the STB will have to upscale if you have it output anything higher then 720p. Sage HD will do the Upscaling for you.

I'm confused by this post. Several networks broadcast in 1080i. Are you claiming 720p is "higher" than 1080i?

SageGk-

Have you tried setting your HD200 to do native resolution switching, so it will switch to the resolution of the current video file? I have absolutely no idea if that would help. I'm just saying that because I would think (perhaps incorrectly) that most nice TVs would have better upscalers than the extenders.

[SageGk]

I hate native switching because it takes quite a few seconds to change resolutions when changing channels. I'm going to lock the box at 720 and see what happens.

[ChuckSchick]

Originally Posted by reggie14

...Are you claiming 720p is "higher" than 1080i?

If by "higher" you mean "of better quality" I think the debate is still ongoing. Google "720p versus 1080i" and you can join the conversation on any number of forums. The main argument seems to me to boil down to some saying that 1080i would more properly be called 540i which would make a major impact to public perception. It's probably just a matter of personal preference. For myself, I can only describe 720p images as feeling more "solid" for lack of a better word -- less jittery or flickery maybe.

I do physics for a living, so I'm actually more engaged by a bit of research done by the BBC which suggests that for my particular viewing situation, my eye can't appreciate resolutions beyond 1280x720. If you're a science or engineering guy, this is interesting... http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP092.pdf

On an anecdotal note, I recently had a DirecTV installer come to hook up a new HD receiver (DirecTV can't imagine a world where the customer could do this themselves??). The installer related that in the "thousands" of boxes he had hooked up, I was the first person to ask that he set the resolution to 720p. He just shook his head and grinned and said "oh yeah man,... you know it".

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by ChuckSchick

I do physics for a living, so I'm actually more engaged by a bit of research done by the BBC which suggests that for my particular viewing situation, my eye can't appreciate resolutions beyond 1280x720. If you're a science or engineering guy, this is interesting... http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP092.pdf

On an anecdotal note, I recently had a DirecTV installer come to hook up a new HD receiver (DirecTV can't imagine a world where the customer could do this themselves??). The installer related that in the "thousands" of boxes he had hooked up, I was the first person to ask that he set the resolution to 720p. He just shook his head and grinned and said "oh yeah man,... you know it".

It's not quite as cut and dry as that. Aside from the quality of the equipment being used. Resolution perception depends on the size of the screen and the viewing distance. In most home situations there probably isn't going to be an appreciable difference between 720p and 1080i/p. The difference really starts to rear it's head when you start going to larger and larger screens. We're talking above the meager home variety.

I have a friend who works at a local science museum in their IMAX dome theatre. They had been looking into moving from their current off-brand IMAX projector to a digital projector. They got a demonstration done and have determined that digital projection just isn't there yet for the size of screen they have. I believe they were using 2K resolution which is higher quality than 1080p and you could see pixels in the video. And I think even 4K resolution wouldn't be enough with their screen size.

Granted, most people aren't going to need even 2K resolution. But when you start talking about people with their own projection media rooms with screens well above 62" 1080p isn't really even enough.

[PosterBoy]

720P has a higher data rate than 1080I, so yes it is higher resolution in that respect.

http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/DTV_Bandwidths.htm

http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm

Kent

[TechJunkie]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I'm confused by this post. Several networks broadcast in 1080i. Are you claiming 720p is "higher" than 1080i?

SageGk-

Have you tried setting your HD200 to do native resolution switching, so it will switch to the resolution of the current video file? I have absolutely no idea if that would help. I'm just saying that because I would think (perhaps incorrectly) that most nice TVs would have better upscalers than the extenders.

I was not trying to do a comparison between the HD formats. A HD STB can output up tp 1080p. I could be totally wrong here, but it is my understanding that the maxuim resolution a TV station will broadcast in is 720p. So I was just suggesting that you record HD tv with the HD-PVR at 720p.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by TechJunkie

I was not trying to do a comparison between the HD formats. A HD STB can output up tp 1080p. I could be totally wrong here, but it is my understanding that the maxuim resolution a TV station will broadcast in is 720p. So I was just suggesting that you record HD tv with the HD-PVR at 720p.

Nope TV stations either broadcast in 720p60 or 1080i30. They each require approximately the same amount of bandwidth.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by PosterBoy

720P has a higher data rate than 1080I, so yes it is higher resolution in that respect.

http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/DTV_Bandwidths.htm

http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm

I really didn't intend to turn this into a which-is-better between 720p and 1080i. I really don't have a strong preference between the two. But, these links sort of intrigued me. The first link said that the data rate for 720p falls somewhere between that of 1080i as defined and 1080i as practiced (which they say is really 1035i). But, I haven't seen anything, other than a small number of anti-interlacing sites, that say 1080i broadcasts are really 1440x1035. My 1080i recordings definitely say they're 1920x1080 files. I did, however, find more sites that said early HDTVs really had 1440x1035 displays. That doesn't seem to be true anymore.

Is there any truth to the 1035i claim, or is it just anti-interlacing FUD?

In my case, my Samsung 630 set takes about a second to switch between resolutions, so I turned native resolution switching on. My TV seems to be a little better at upconverting than my HD100 (and I record HD via firewire and QAM, so I don't/can't use the HD receiver to upconvert).

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Is there any truth to the 1035i claim, or is it just anti-interlacing FUD?

Not sure where they're coming from with the 1035i stuff. The resolution for all the stations here who broadcast in 1080i is 1920x1080 interlaced. I do know that either DirecTV or Dish were using an anamorphic 1440x1080i for their HD channels. But I've never heard of anyone using 1035i.

It appears that 1035i was the format used by the Japanese analog HD video standard.

[ChuckSchick]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

... most people aren't going to need even 2K resolution. But when you start talking about people with their own projection media rooms with screens well above 62" 1080p isn't really even enough.

Very true. I'm viewing 52" screen from about 15' away typically so I could probably get by with 480p without discernible pixels.

Unfortunately, everyone on this board will probably be papering their theater room with video wallpaper in a decade or so. Then I'll be really lamenting the fact that I've downconverted all of my blu-ray rips to 720p! Oh well, I'll have a robot butler by then that I can get to re-rip all of my discs.

Alternately, given the current state of the economy, Instead of home theater for a hobby, I might be hot-gluing spikes on football pads for my next trip into the thunderdome.

Anyhow, how is the motion blur problem coming?

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by ChuckSchick

Very true. I'm viewing 52" screen from about 15' away typically so I could probably get by with 480p without discernible pixels.

Unfortunately, everyone on this board will probably be papering their theater room with video wallpaper in a decade or so. Then I'll be really lamenting the fact that I've downconverted all of my blu-ray rips to 720p! Oh well, I'll have a robot butler by then that I can get to re-rip all of my discs.

I like the people at (insert your local big-box store that sells HDTVs) who stand about two feet in front of a 65" LCD and then complain that it looks grainy. The fact that HDTV is meant to be viewed at a distance of "2.5x to 3x the screen size" away has been lost on most of America who all think "bigger is better" and want bragging rights of the largest HDTV in the neighborhood.

But I digress....

[SageGk]

Originally Posted by ChuckSchick

Anyhow, how is the motion blur problem coming?

I locked the box at 720p and no more blur/stutter. I'm not sure if I'm seeing grainy-ness on my 56" DLP or if it is in the broadcast but I'm leaving it at 720p for now.