SageTV/HD-PVR/Starchoice questions

[zoltran]

Hello folks
I've spent the last day or so scaning thru the forums here and at digtialhome re the sagetv and HD-PVR vs R5000 questions, I'm just about ready to push the button to buy a HDPVR but have some questions re the Wife Acceptance Factor using Sage and the HDPVR.

But I'm not sure how current some of the posts are re HDPVR issues.

I also posted this on the digitalhome forum.. hope that doesn't count as cross-posting.

The goal here would be for two Sage HD200 extenders, SageTV server, with two HD-PVRs using Starchoice.

- How quickly does it change channels on live-tv? I've heard this can be 20 seconds or more, but I'm not sure if this is an isolated or old concern.
If it does take that long it pretty much dooms this project to PVR only status. Never mind WAF... I couldn't stand 20 second channel changes.
(Heck .. I can't stand more than 5 seconds)

- Are you all now happy with the Sage/HD-PVR? There was a lot of concerns in the Jun-Oct timeframe re overheating/Sound/etc. My present Receiver doesn't have Dolby 5.1 .. just stereo, so I may not have any worries?

- Is liveTV and/or playback skip/stutter free ?

- Are the drivers stable now?

- How is the picture quality vs the native feed off the STB?

- Any special sagetv tuning required?

- What file sizes are you seeing ...?

- Does Fast Fwd/Rewind etc work on these mpg4 files?

- Does commercial skip work on the files from the hdpvr?

- Does it down-convert HD content to SD when played on a SD TV?

- What are you using for a server ? I have an older amd2600+ (single core) I was thinking of which is likely to slow.. , but I also have a modern quad-core that could be used. Both have a lot of disk.

- Any other usability tips/gotcha's etc ?

- Lastly .. is the R5000 a better/simpler/more stable choice ? How fast are it's channle changes? And do you still need to buy the special sagetv from them, and pay for multiple tuners?

I'm also in Canada ... Southern Ontario. if your brave and wouldn't mind I'd love to chat about this... probably simpler than posting. .. pls PM me so we can exchange phone numbers

Thanks in advance
Wes

[jm987]

I can't answer all of your questions but I have a similar setup. I'm running 2 HD PVR's using Shaw Cable and a USB UIRT to do the channel changing.

Using Shaw's guide and Shaw's remote changing the channel is almost instant. With the HDPVR and USB UIRT it takes about 5 - 7 seconds (just tested it) to change the channel. I did some tinkering with the delays between button presses to get to this speed and for the channel changing to be reliable.

As for the HDPVR I'm still running pre 5.1 drivers because I have found them stable and haven't had time to do the upgrade. I've also found that I'm watching very little live TV these days and almost everything is already recorded so the delay is a moot point.

I love the HDPVR / Sage combination. Both of my Shaw HD Receivers are PVR's and refuse to use them for those purposes.

I watch almost everything at 720P content and find the picture quality fantastic. I haven't noticed a difference between having the shaw box plugged in vs going through the HDPVR but I've always found that you get used to whatever is in front of you.

- File size is about 3GB per hour.
- No problems with FF/RW on mpeg4 files. I have found that sometimes if I do FF the video and and audio can come out of sync but another RW or FF normally fixes it. I haven't noticed the issue with anything I've recorded just some Mpeg4 AVI's.

- I've never bothered with comskip, I just use the FF 10 seconds button during commercials.

- I have a HD100 over component on a TV that will do a max of 480i or 480p. The 720p recorded content plays fine so I'm assuming that it's down converted.

- Server is a AMD X2-3800 with 2 GIGS RAM and lots of storage w/ Windows Home Server. The server is only used to download content and to handle SageTV. Due that I have a large music and video library, my RAM usage is often over 1.2 GB used so make sure that you have sufficient memory.

If you have any more questions let me know.

JM

[zoltran]

Thanks JM.. of course answers bring on more questions '-)

Do I need 2 usb-uirts if I have 2x HDPVRs? I would think so, but just checking...

[viperdiablo]

I am in the same situation as you. I am leaning towards the R5000 mod for starchoice right now. As there is sale going on right now for the R5000 the price is about $675 after exchange and shipping plus I believe another 90 bucks for multiple tuner software for sagetv. So about $765 total. The hauppauge hd pvr is about $500 for two plus tax plus another $65cdn for a usb-uirt. So a total of approx. $632.80. (in B.C.) So for another $140 bucks you get a more reliable, less wires, setup. Just something to think about.

PS I read that channel changes on the R5000 are about 5 to 8 seconds.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by zoltran

Do I need 2 usb-uirts if I have 2x HDPVRs? I would think so, but just checking...

One USB-UIRT can control multiple STBs. If the boxes can be set to use different IR code sets, then you can control as many boxes as you want; otherwise, each USB-UIRT can control 3 boxes with some additional IR blaster wires. The hardware forum has a sticky with links to more info:
Information Resources for Remotes, Receivers, and IR Blasters

- Andy

[jm987]

Originally Posted by zoltran

Thanks JM.. of course answers bring on more questions '-)

Do I need 2 usb-uirts if I have 2x HDPVRs? I would think so, but just checking...

Like Andy said above, just need the 1 USB UIRT and you can control up to three devices. There are 2 slots on the USB UIRT that you add a IR (I believe it's a repeater) device. so I have one cable box with the USB UIRT sticking in front of it and a cable that goes to the front of the other box.

[zoltran]

Thanks very much folks. Very helpful.

I will get the usbuirt if I go the HDPVR route.

I took a look at the Starchoice DSR505 manual .... it looks like it allows you to set up for different remotes. Their instructions say to change the address on the 505, and then press the magic key combo on the remote to 'train' it to the new address.

So it sounds like I would be able to use just one UIRT to control all the sets.

I read thru the FAQs that Opus4 posted.. but didn't understand how I would 'train' or specify which receiver address the usb-uirt would use?

Anyone done this on a SC 505 ?

Clip from the manual ...

Systems Settings: Option 3. Installation Settings
The Installation Settings menu allows you to tune in the satellite signal, change the remote
control address and initiate a manual reportback.
1. Tune in Satellite Signal. This option is for the installer use only.
2. Remote Control Address. This option allows you to set the remote control address of
the satellite receiver. You can set up to eight separate addresses (0000 through 0007). The
default address is 0000.
From the Main Menu choose System Settings, and Installation Settings (option 3).
- On the Installation Settings menu, choose Remote Control Address (option 2). Follow the
instructions on the Remote Control Address screen.
To program a remote control for each receiver, hold down the SAT key on the remote control
until the light flashes then enter the four digit address that matches the receiver

Wes

[jm987]

Originally Posted by zoltran

Thanks very much folks. Very helpful.

I will get the usbuirt if I go the HDPVR route.

I took a look at the Starchoice DSR505 manual .... it looks like it allows you to set up for different remotes. Their instructions say to change the address on the 505, and then press the magic key combo on the remote to 'train' it to the new address.

So it sounds like I would be able to use just one UIRT to control all the sets.

I read thru the FAQs that Opus4 posted.. but didn't understand how I would 'train' or specify which receiver address the usb-uirt would use?


Wes

The way I got it working is you create seperate IR files for each receiver you have.

For example in my pace.ir file:
1 Z20000 006c 0012 0002 0157 00ac 0013 00ac 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 00ac 0013 00ac 0013 00ac 0013 00ac 0013 04a6 0157 0057 0013 0d3c


In the motorola.ir file:
1 0000 006c 0012 0002 0157 00ac 0013 00ac 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 0056 0013 00ac 0013 00ac 0013 00ac 0013 00ac 0013 04a6 0157 0057 0013 0d3c


The IR codes are the same but just needed to the ad Z2 in front of it to tell it to point sent the IR data from Zone2 on the USB UIRT. If I remember correctly you can do Z2, Z3, or leave it blank.

JM

[sic0048]

I think it really comes down to personal choice.

• The R5000 is going to be a little more expensive and tied to that particular service.
• The HD-PVR is slightly cheaper and can be used with any service provider. So if you ever change service providers, you don't have to buy new equipment.
  
  
• The R5000 is a direct connection using 1 USB cord for control and data streaming.
• The HD-PVR requires a USB for data streaming plus another way to control channel changes as already talked about. I had some trouble getting my Hauppauge IR blaster (the built in blaster) to work correctly, but once set up correctly it has been working fine.
  
  
• The R5000 is arguably a more stable platform. Certainly the set up is probably a little easier
• The HD-PVR still gives some users some issues. But generally, once set up it works fine - at least for users with extenders for playback. I think it takes more tweaking than the R5000 if you are using computers for playback.
  
  
• The R5000 maintains the original digital format when recording.
• The HD-PVR must go through a digital to analog to digital conversion. This is bound to produce a slightly inferior picture. That being said, the HD-PVR picture is VERY nice.

Those are the biggest differences that I can think of. I personally went with the HD-PVR for the first reason (cost and flexability in choosing service providers). I currently use DishTV, so the R5000 was a possibility for me.

Either is a crap shoot when it comes to the future. Broadcasters may be able to turn off the component outputs in boxes in the future rendering the HD-PVR useless. On the R5000 side, broadcasters may move away from the current technology like DirectTV did with its HD programing which could also render the R5000 useless.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by zoltran

I read thru the FAQs that Opus4 posted.. but didn't understand how I would 'train' or specify which receiver address the usb-uirt would use?

Anyone done this on a SC 505 ?

I am doing this with three StarChoice receivers connected to my Sage server using one USB-UIRT to control them all. Each receiver is on a different remote code. I have one SC 505 and two SC 307s (or whatever the basic SD model number is - the very tiny receiver).

To "train" Sage you first set the individual remote codes for each receiver/remote then teach Sage the buttons for that code after it's been set. Here's a tip: when you're changing the remote code for a receiver either make sure the other receivers aren't in the room or their unplugged otherwise you'll end up doing what I did and actually end up switching the remote code for all your receivers at the same time and then lose 90 mins of your life trying to figure out why your other receivers appear to be dead.

I have the needed IR files for the USB-UIRT to control remote codes 1, 2 and 5 should you want them. I haven't had a problem yet (knock on wood). If you do want them then just pm me and I'll send them to you. I actually got two of them from a thread on this board and then I trained Sage for remote code 5 myself. Everything's working like a champ so far...

[zoltran]

Thanks everyone !

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by jm987

I can't answer all of your questions but I have a similar setup. I'm running 2 HD PVR's using Shaw Cable and a USB UIRT to do the channel changing.

Using Shaw's guide and Shaw's remote changing the channel is almost instant. With the HDPVR and USB UIRT it takes about 5 - 7 seconds (just tested it) to change the channel. I did some tinkering with the delays between button presses to get to this speed and for the channel changing to be reliable.

As for the HDPVR I'm still running pre 5.1 drivers because I have found them stable and haven't had time to do the upgrade. I've also found that I'm watching very little live TV these days and almost everything is already recorded so the delay is a moot point.

I love the HDPVR / Sage combination. Both of my Shaw HD Receivers are PVR's and refuse to use them for those purposes.

I watch almost everything at 720P content and find the picture quality fantastic. I haven't noticed a difference between having the shaw box plugged in vs going through the HDPVR but I've always found that you get used to whatever is in front of you.

- File size is about 3GB per hour.
- No problems with FF/RW on mpeg4 files. I have found that sometimes if I do FF the video and and audio can come out of sync but another RW or FF normally fixes it. I haven't noticed the issue with anything I've recorded just some Mpeg4 AVI's.

- I've never bothered with comskip, I just use the FF 10 seconds button during commercials.

- I have a HD100 over component on a TV that will do a max of 480i or 480p. The 720p recorded content plays fine so I'm assuming that it's down converted.

- Server is a AMD X2-3800 with 2 GIGS RAM and lots of storage w/ Windows Home Server. The server is only used to download content and to handle SageTV. Due that I have a large music and video library, my RAM usage is often over 1.2 GB used so make sure that you have sufficient memory.

If you have any more questions let me know.

JM

I am planning on using a HD-PVR with a Starchoice / Shaw Direct satellite receiver. Do you see a noticeable difference in quality between the outputs of the Shaw box and the HD-PVR recordings (or live output, for that matter)?
Also, what kind and size of television are you using - CRT - LCD - plasma - 46" etc. thanks

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

I am planning on using a HD-PVR with a Starchoice / Shaw Direct satellite receiver. Do you see a noticeable difference in quality between the outputs of the Shaw box and the HD-PVR recordings (or live output, for that matter)?
Also, what kind and size of television are you using - CRT - LCD - plasma - 46" etc. thanks

No difference what so ever. If someone else told me a difference was inevitable given the digital > analog > digital conversion going on with the HD-PVR I wouldn't argue with them, but I do not see a noticeable difference from watching the HD receiver I have hooked up directly to my 46" Sony Bravia 1080p LCD compared to watching the same content via my HD100/HD-PVR. I'm more than pleased with the Sage setup I have and I'm using StarChoice 505 receivers for HD.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Slugger

No difference what so ever. If someone else told me a difference was inevitable given the digital > analog > digital conversion going on with the HD-PVR I wouldn't argue with them, but I do not see a noticeable difference from watching the HD receiver I have hooked up directly to my 46" Sony Bravia 1080p LCD compared to watching the same content via my HD100/HD-PVR. I'm more than pleased with the Sage setup I have and I'm using StarChoice 505 receivers for HD.

Great news - I'm using the same receiver and a Samsung 52" with either HDMI or component inputs to choose from, also using Sage. What is the signal path - video cards - processor - ram etc you're using?

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Great news - I'm using the same receiver and a Samsung 52" with either HDMI or component inputs to choose from, also using Sage. What is the signal path - video cards - processor - ram etc you're using?

oops, sorry - didn't see the fine print at the bottom of your post. As far as the PVR-250, how is that hooked up to your Bravia?

[wayner]

I will attempt to answer for Slugger - the PVR-250 is in the server and is not hooked up to the Bravia, nor is the Sage PC so you don't even need a video card in your PC. He has an HD-100 Sage extender that is hooked up to the Bravia. Using extenders is the way to go - I have four of them!

[Slugger]

wayner has got it dead on. I have a headless server in the office that houses all the tuner cards and Star Choice receivers. All content is recorded on the server and I have an HD-100 media extender connected to the tv that I use to watch all my Sage recordings. This is the way to set it up, imho. I also have a 505 HD receiver in the living room connected directly to the tv via component that I use for periodic surfing/live viewing of say a ball game or whatever. I rarely use the receiver, but as a test I have watched half a ball game directly from the receiver hooked to the tv then flipped over to Sage and watched the last half of the game - no difference to my eye what so ever. Now I won't say I have the most keen eye when it comes to noticing fine differences in video quality, but if there were a noticeable one I'd see it and I just don't between the two. My HD-100 is connected via HDMI.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by wayner

I will attempt to answer for Slugger - the PVR-250 is in the server and is not hooked up to the Bravia, nor is the Sage PC so you don't even need a video card in your PC. He has an HD-100 Sage extender that is hooked up to the Bravia. Using extenders is the way to go - I have four of them!

I like that idea - keep the big, loud, hot box in a closet somewhere. I take it the HD-200 is the way to go? My system is based on an older matx board with a 2.14 Ghz celeron and 2 gigs of ram. Do the HD extenders require more power from their server? This system has been fine as a direct connect, but if I'm running long CAT 5 runs, should I be concerned?

[Slugger]

Be concerned about RAM. The extender's GUI is run on the server, but the actual video processing is done on the extender so CPU won't be an issue, but you will want lots of RAM on the server, especially if you're running more than one extender or your running an interface with lots of graphics, etc. (i.e. SageMC). I'd say 2GB min, I have no problems with the 2 I run, but put a third gig in if you can. Long ethernet runs aren't an issue as long as you stay within the max length spec, which is 100 metres so unless you're living in a mansion, 100m (~328 ft) should not be an issue.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Slugger

Be concerned about RAM. The extender's GUI is run on the server, but the actual video processing is done on the extender so CPU won't be an issue, but you will want lots of RAM on the server, especially if you're running more than one extender or your running an interface with lots of graphics, etc. (i.e. SageMC). I'd say 2GB min, I have no problems with the 2 I run, but put a third gig in if you can. Long ethernet runs aren't an issue as long as you stay within the max length spec, which is 100 metres so unless you're living in a mansion, 100m (~328 ft) should not be an issue.

And things like 5.1 audio, AC3, etc. all come down the CAT5 and decode just fine at the extender?