How do you all use UPS/battery backup devices?

[btrcp2000]

My POS BElkin UPS with the irreplaceable battery appears to be headed for the landfill (or thrown in the pile with all the other cr@p I have to recycle somehow, not literally a landfill). So I am on the hunt for a new one. Given that I am a geek, there is always the temptation to not just replace, but to get one that has a bunch of bells and whistles.

But that got me thinking. Is there any benefit at all for for a UPS that could keep sage up for an outage that lasts more than a few minutes? It occurs to me that if my neighborhood power goes out, so does my cable, which renders sage mostly useless. Same goes for my voip.

So my question is, is there any reason to think about a UPS that will do much more than bridge a power outage gap of a few minutes, or gracefully shut things down if it goes longer?

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

My POS BElkin UPS with the irreplaceable battery appears to be headed for the landfill (or thrown in the pile with all the other cr@p I have to recycle somehow, not literally a landfill). So I am on the hunt for a new one. Given that I am a geek, there is always the temptation to not just replace, but to get one that has a bunch of bells and whistles.

But that got me thinking. Is there any benefit at all for for a UPS that could keep sage up for an outage that lasts more than a few minutes? It occurs to me that if my neighborhood power goes out, so does my cable, which renders sage mostly useless. Same goes for my voip.

So my question is, is there any reason to think about a UPS that will do much more than bridge a power outage gap of a few minutes, or gracefully shut things down if it goes longer?

As long as you bios has the ability to turn your server back up when power returns, I see no reason for all the bells and whistles. I use two cheap APC back up power supplies that keep my servers running for about 10 minutes and then powers them down. Then when the power comes back on, up goes my servers. 90% of all of my power outtages are less than a couple of minutes. I also figure that worst case scenario is that if something is missed from a recording standpoint, I can either watch it online/download it or just go look for a later run of that episode.

My Mantra anymore though is: it is just tv. It isn't life or death...missing an episode will not kill you.

[mattdcknsn]

I go for more brown out protection than black out. If the power is out for more than a couple of minutes everything shuts down.

Now I do have ALOT of UPSs. Every device that plugs into the server is on an UPS, my TV is on an UPS. I'm paranoid about line noise.

[btrcp2000]

Thanks, good thoughts. If your power goes out and the UPS triggers the server to shut down, how does the BIOS know that it should start up again? Wouldn't it stay shut down the same as if you had manually shut down via the start menu?

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

Thanks, good thoughts. If your power goes out and the UPS triggers the server to shut down, how does the BIOS know that it should start up again? Wouldn't it stay shut down the same as if you had manually shut down via the start menu?

There is usually a setting in the BIOS on how to recover from a power outage: turn on, stay off, or resume (i.e. if you were on before turn on, otherwise stay off).

This works because the UPS will verify the computer shut down and then disconnect the battery power. Once line voltage comes back they will usually re-connect to line voltage while re-charging the battery. Set the bios to come on or resume and it should power up again.

I'm with paul, I just use mine to allow the server to shut down safely or weather a brown-out or very short "blip" in the power. Anything more than a minute and the server shuts down. This also means I don't need huge reserve power, so I can get by with a small UPS.

However I have noticed that even though the power is out my cable is usually fine. I used to have the cable modem on the battery side of the UPS and it would stay up till the UPS disconnected. So in many cases you probably could keep the server up to record or make calls even with the power out if you wanted too.

[lovingHDTV]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

Thanks, good thoughts. If your power goes out and the UPS triggers the server to shut down, how does the BIOS know that it should start up again? Wouldn't it stay shut down the same as if you had manually shut down via the start menu?

Me too.

Here in TX our power flickers all the time. I have every device I own on a UPS.

The only downfall is the beeps you hear when the power does go out.

[hemicuda]

if you use the right APC model, apcupsd (sourceforge) will allow you to disable the beep in eeprom.

[CollinR]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

Thanks, good thoughts. If your power goes out and the UPS triggers the server to shut down, how does the BIOS know that it should start up again? Wouldn't it stay shut down the same as if you had manually shut down via the start menu?

Inexpensive consumer UPS it won't and as a result it won't boot. For APC IIRC it's the SmartUPS line that has WOL capability.

If you have an automation controller or know how to program your alarm you can have it power your machines up after power has been restored for a certain amount of time. This should also be in the DDWRT router firmware but I don't think it actually is.

[Menehune]

I have an APC SmartUPS rated at 1000VA. The UPS is rated to run my three computers in the office long enough to shut them down and the USB cable runs to the sage server so it can be shutdown automatically by window's UPS shutdown service.

IIRC, when my UPS exhausts it's batteries during an outage, the power output turns off and stays off. It has been a while since there has been an outage when I have not been home. If I am home, I VNC into the server and shut it down if the outage is longer then 15 min plus the cable signal goes out when the power drops (cable co with no backups power on their system).

I have the server set in bios to stay off if power is lost so I will know there is a problem.

[Djc208]

When my admittedly low end Cyberpower unit goes into battery mode the software waits a minute (in case it's just a blip) and then triggers the server to shut down. The server performs a standard windows shutdown. Once the computer shuts down that signals the UPS which disconnects the battery power. So the computer has no standby power.

When the electricity comes back, the UPS powers back up and then switches over to line power. At this point the server sees the standby power from the power supply and the BIOS turns on the PC.

Only time I've had a problem was when the computer hung and didn't shut down. The UPS ran till the battery was dead, which lead-acid batteries hate. When the power came back the battery was shot and the unit wouldn't re-engage. This was an old unit which didn't help either.

So whatever size you get don't run them dead. That severly shortens the life of a UPS if it's using a sealed lead/acid battery. Some of the newer software will force a shutdown in case some program hangs to prevent this problem.

[stevech]

Does windows (XP?) have a "power fail" shutdown API call to force things? Like kill -9 <id> in unix/linux

It's really frustrating when it hangs, esp. when the power-off shutdown sticks due to a GUI "Do you want to exit.." from some program.

[bjterry62]

One thing no one seems to be mentioning is the problems that occur when the power goes down and your box is RECORDING!!! We all know what a reboot in the middle of a recording can do. If you're putting a UPS on anything, it should be your main recording box (whether server or HTPC). Example: My mother-in-law lives with us and has a touch of Alzheimers. She is constantly throwing the breaker by running her microwave oven to boil water for tea. We reset things pretty quickly, but it would reek havok with my recordings without the UPS.

BT

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by bjterry62

One thing no one seems to be mentioning is the problems that occur when the power goes down and your box is RECORDING!!! We all know what a reboot in the middle of a recording can do. If you're putting a UPS on anything, it should be your main recording box (whether server or HTPC). Example: My mother-in-law lives with us and has a touch of Alzheimers. She is constantly throwing the breaker by running her microwave oven to boil water for tea. We reset things pretty quickly, but it would reek havok with my recordings without the UPS.

BT

Ewww, you have more problems than a mother-in-law if running a microwave trips the breaker. You either have a bad breaker or are overloading that circuit. Some rewiring might be in order if there is no way for the microwave to be on a different circuit.

[maninblack_30]

I would buy a second-hand UPS form ebay etc like I did.
I ended up with a 3000VA rackmount unit for AU$30, all I had to do was replace the batteries with ones from an electronics store, and it's as good as new. will run the sags box for 45 mins or so with no monitor.

Fraser

[stevech]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Ewww, you have more problems than a mother-in-law if running a microwave trips the breaker. You either have a bad breaker or are overloading that circuit. Some rewiring might be in order if there is no way for the microwave to be on a different circuit.

Where I live, Over-the-Range Microwave Ovens are supposed to be on a dedicated circuit/breaker.

[BlueH2O]

Originally Posted by stevech

Does windows (XP?) have a "power fail" shutdown API call to force things? Like kill -9 <id> in unix/linux

It's really frustrating when it hangs, esp. when the power-off shutdown sticks due to a GUI "Do you want to exit.." from some program.

From the command line, you can use the "shutdown" command with the -f option to force programs to close.

[BlueH2O]

I use an APC Smart-UPS SC420 on my sage server, it powers the server, the network equipment closest to it, and the amp for my antenna. The machine that acts as my router also has a UPS; That machine and it's network equipment will stay powered for almost 40 minutes. The Sage PC's UPS will run it for about 10-15 minutes at full load, or much longer if the machine happens to be in standby when the power goes out. I have the other server set to wake the Sage PC from standby before it's battery fails, so that if it was in standby it will wake up and shutdown gracefully. If it was up when the power failed, it will have already shut down before that time.