leaving SageTV unattended for 6-12 months.. suggestions?

[korben_dallas]

A job prospect may send me away for a good while. SageTV and the PC hosting it may be sitting for 6-12 months unattended. Any suggestions?

* PC is on a relatively new ups
* set BIOS to always on
* will go straight analog cable, to take the STB out of the equation

I was thinking I could do some scheduled scripts? Disable Windows Update?

[IVB]

I think you mean this by "set BIOS to always on", but just in case you meant something else: make sure you have your BIOS set to "last power state" or "power on" for the "If power loss" option. I did all this cool stuff for my server when I went to Hawaii on vacation, but we lost power 2 days into it and that hosed it all.

Also, will you be watching Sage PlaceShifter? If so, get a dyndns account, and install that little software utility they provide so you can just point your placeshifter to korben.dynds.org (or whatever you pick).

make sure you've got tons of room, ultra-VNC or something installed so you can remote into it if you want.

[GKusnick]

I've left my Sage system unattended for a couple of months at a stretch on several occasions. Most issues, I find, can be resolved via Placeshifter or RDP. Those that can't tend to fall into two general categories:

1. Windows Update snafus. I've seen a few instances where my server hung on reboot following Windows Update. A manual reboot usually fixes it, but that's hard to do when you're out of town. Disabling automatic updates should take care of this problem.

2. Modem/router issues. My DSL connection sometimes drops out temporarily in such a way as to hang my modem or confuse my router into thinking it's authenticated when it's not. My solution to this involves a hardware device called iBoot. This is basically a remotely controlled AC power switch with a web interface. It can be set to ping an external IP address periodically; if the ping fails N times in a row, it cycles the power on the attached AC power outlet. I power my modem and router via the iBoot, and connect the iBoot's Ethernet port to the LAN side of the router. So if I lose Internet connectivity for (say) ten minutes, the iBoot will cycle the power and reboot my modem and router in an attempt to restore it.

That said, there's always the chance of an unforeseen issue that can't be fixed remotely. So be sure to leave a key to your place with a trusted friend or neighbor so that in an emergency you can call them up and talk them through a manual restart of your system.

[rrambo]

Originally Posted by IVB

I think you mean this by "set BIOS to always on", but just in case you meant something else: make sure you have your BIOS set to "last power state" or "power on" for the "If power loss" option. I did all this cool stuff for my server when I went to Hawaii on vacation, but we lost power 2 days into it and that hosed it all.

Also, will you be watching Sage PlaceShifter? If so, get a dyndns account, and install that little software utility they provide so you can just point your placeshifter to korben.dynds.org (or whatever you pick).

make sure you've got tons of room, ultra-VNC or something installed so you can remote into it if you want.

While I also use dynamic dns.. I use it for other reasons, like being able to rdp into my xp machine at home... you don't have to have a static ip address OR use dynamic dns for placeshifter across the internet.. that's the reason behind the Placeshifter Network Locator ID... once you forward the appropriate ports on your router, a placeshifter client locates by network locator id and not by ip or domain name...

[CollinR]

Originally Posted by IVB

I think you mean this by "set BIOS to always on", but just in case you meant something else: make sure you have your BIOS set to "last power state" or "power on" for the "If power loss" option. I did all this cool stuff for my server when I went to Hawaii on vacation, but we lost power 2 days into it and that hosed it all.

Also, will you be watching Sage PlaceShifter? If so, get a dyndns account, and install that little software utility they provide so you can just point your placeshifter to korben.dynds.org (or whatever you pick).

make sure you've got tons of room, ultra-VNC or something installed so you can remote into it if you want.

Yes this can get ultra confusing when you add in an UPS unit.

Here is why...

Power fails, UPS battery drops to 40% (or whatever you set it for) XP is told to shutdown.

So whats last state? Shutdown, PC will stay off.
What if it's set to after power fail, On?
What if it's set to Always On?

Well that will depend on if the power stays out long enough to drain the other 40% of the battery before power is restored. If power is restored before the battery completely dies the machine will never see a power failure and thus stay off. Machines set in the BIOS "Always On" when you shut them down, they stay off. So in all 3 cases your are hosed.

If you have a really nice UPS it might be able to send WOL packet which would wake the machine. Most comsumers however don't have an UPS with those capabilities.

The only way to really bypass all that is to actually not connect the UPS to the PC and leave it as you have it set, Always On. In this case the machine will run until the battery is gone and then when power is restored it will kick back on. If power is restored before the battery is dead the machine will never shutdown.

However this is not really a good practice, especially with SageTV and write caching on the HDDs. It's basically begging for a corrupted database.

The previsouly mentioned iboot sounds like a decent enough idea however rather expensive if you want several.

I have also seen a couple of other "on the cheap" methods...

#1 A 12VDC "wall wort" with a delay timer and a relay. You wire the relay NO to the power switch on the mainboard of the server. You wire the delay timer to trip the relay after the timer expires. You wire the 12v power to the delay timer to trigger it. You configure XP to do nothing when you press the power button.

In this case you can use a UPS as normal, XP will shutdown before the battery is dead. When power returns the PC will stay off but the delay timer will start, when the timer expires the relay will close and boot the machine. If the power is not out long enough to get have XP shutdown then when it returns and the relay closes nothing should happen.

#2 The reset pins to your alarm systems output and get a DTMF control module, this way you would phone home, login to the alarm and set the output request which would boot (or reboot) the machine. This won't work with every alarm and most likely would require either additional hardware (DTMF modue) or a nice central station. But if your central station is cool it'll only cost you the wire to wire it up. You would call them they would get into your alarm via their downloader and set the output state.

Also if you have a nice CCTV DVR like IVB does you can do the same via it's digital IO. Leave it diconnected from the UPS and set to Always On and then when you have issues you can login to it and using it's digital IO you can at your option reset or power your other boxes.


I really like the ping external addresses function of that iboot, I am going to have to put some thought into how I can replicate that functionality into my DVRs. Very cool and thanks for the link GKusnick.

[dravenone]

Does your BIOS have a feature to auto turn on based on day of the week and time of day? If so that would get you around a clean shut down of Windows. However the system would be off from the time it shutdown to the time it is scheduled to turn back on.

As for Dyn.dns, I use it as well since for me it has been more reliable than the locator ID. I have been placeshifiting since it was released and went dyn.dns back then and never looked back, the locator ID is probably solid now, but I have never bothered to try it again. Also my router supports dyn.dns so I don't need to install their software, my router handles the IP change directly.

[CarlR]

Originally Posted by CollinR

Yes this can get ultra confusing when you add in an UPS unit.

Here is why...

Power fails, UPS battery drops to 40% (or whatever you set it for) XP is told to shutdown.

So whats last state? Shutdown, PC will stay off.
What if it's set to after power fail, On?
What if it's set to Always On?

Well that will depend on if the power stays out long enough to drain the other 40% of the battery before power is restored. If power is restored before the battery completely dies the machine will never see a power failure and thus stay off. Machines set in the BIOS "Always On" when you shut them down, they stay off. So in all 3 cases your are hosed. ...

I may be remembering this wrong (it's been a while since I tested it), but the way to deal with this is to have the UPS tell the PC to turn off, rather than having XP monitor the battery status and turn off by itself. When the battery on my Belkin UPS gets low, the UPS will send a shutdown signal to the PC, give it 2 minutes to turn off (this is configurable), then kill the power to the PC. The PC will reboot when power is restored.

So unless the power comes back on within that 2 minute window, I'm covered.

[CollinR]

Just test it the nicer UPS models do have the ability to open the circuit to different ports but normally these UPSs are not cheap or common.

In all cases it is the UPS telling XP what to do however once the machine is off there are only a couple of ways to kick it back on.

[hemicuda]

Originally Posted by CollinR

#1 A 12VDC "wall wort" with a delay timer and a relay. You wire the relay NO to the power switch on the mainboard of the server. You wire the delay timer to trip the relay after the timer expires. You wire the 12v power to the delay timer to trigger it. You configure XP to do nothing when you press the power button.

In this case you can use a UPS as normal, XP will shutdown before the battery is dead. When power returns the PC will stay off but the delay timer will start, when the timer expires the relay will close and boot the machine. If the power is not out long enough to get have XP shutdown then when it returns and the relay closes nothing should happen.

This would work great for my setup. I have 2 PCs connected to one UPS. One draws almost no power, the other is the main load. When the power goes out long enough for the UPS to hit low batt, the main box is told to shut down first. This unloads the UPS so much that it's no longer in the low batt state. It will continue to power the 2nd PC for another 3-4hrs. Agastat makes 120V delay-on and delay-off relays, but I haven't priced them. Something like this wired to pulse the power button is a unique solution. Can't believe I didn't think of it first. A wal-wart, timer, relay, and Radio Shack project box should do the trick.

[davephan]

Install LogMeIn remote control software, which is free, available at www.logmein.com. If you have Internet access at your remote location, you can then have free GUI remote control to your computer. Make sure you have tons of disk space, unless you don't record many programs. Setup the computer to automatically log on, unless you run SageTV only as a service. Make sure the Internet provider and your utilities are all setup for automatic payment. If you change your mind about using the set top box, put that on the UPS. If your cable or DSL modem/router isn't reliable over the long term, consider connecting it to a timer to automatically power cycle the cable or DSL modem/router periodically.

For you home... If you have a programmable thermostat, change the batteries, installing high quality batteries. If the programmable thermostat batteries go dead while your gone, you may not have any heat/air conditioning in your house. You might also want to consider changing all your smoke detector batteries. If you don't, you might drive a person crazy if you have someone physically checking on your home. You won't have to worry about coming back to a home with beeping smoke detectors. If you have a security system monitoring your home, make sure that your 'keyholders' have keys, consider adding a high/low temperature sensor, and change out the security panel battery if it is several years old.

Dave

[stevech]

Or UltraVNC and put a port-forward for its port number in your router. You can access your PC via a web browser with UltraVNC or via a VNC client. ALl freeware.

It enables you to send CTRL-ALT-DEL and so on from the remote so you can reboot.

Of course, you set a password for it.

[sainswor99]

I'd also suggest you install nielm's webserver, so you can manage recordings remotely. Also, you may want to consider disabling Intelligent Recording, especially if you're going to be unable to monitor recording status for long periods of time.

[dagar]

Originally Posted by CollinR

Yes this can get ultra confusing when you add in an UPS unit.

Here is why...

Power fails, UPS battery drops to 40% (or whatever you set it for) XP is told to shutdown.

So whats last state? Shutdown, PC will stay off.
What if it's set to after power fail, On?
What if it's set to Always On?

Well that will depend on if the power stays out long enough to drain the other 40% of the battery before power is restored. If power is restored before the battery completely dies the machine will never see a power failure and thus stay off. Machines set in the BIOS "Always On" when you shut them down, they stay off. So in all 3 cases your are hosed.

If you have a really nice UPS it might be able to send WOL packet which would wake the machine. Most comsumers however don't have an UPS with those capabilities.

The only way to really bypass all that is to actually not connect the UPS to the PC and leave it as you have it set, Always On. In this case the machine will run until the battery is gone and then when power is restored it will kick back on. If power is restored before the battery is dead the machine will never shutdown.

However this is not really a good practice, especially with SageTV and write caching on the HDDs. It's basically begging for a corrupted database.

The previsouly mentioned iboot sounds like a decent enough idea however rather expensive if you want several.

I have also seen a couple of other "on the cheap" methods...

#1 A 12VDC "wall wort" with a delay timer and a relay. You wire the relay NO to the power switch on the mainboard of the server. You wire the delay timer to trip the relay after the timer expires. You wire the 12v power to the delay timer to trigger it. You configure XP to do nothing when you press the power button.

In this case you can use a UPS as normal, XP will shutdown before the battery is dead. When power returns the PC will stay off but the delay timer will start, when the timer expires the relay will close and boot the machine. If the power is not out long enough to get have XP shutdown then when it returns and the relay closes nothing should happen.

#2 The reset pins to your alarm systems output and get a DTMF control module, this way you would phone home, login to the alarm and set the output request which would boot (or reboot) the machine. This won't work with every alarm and most likely would require either additional hardware (DTMF modue) or a nice central station. But if your central station is cool it'll only cost you the wire to wire it up. You would call them they would get into your alarm via their downloader and set the output state.

Also if you have a nice CCTV DVR like IVB does you can do the same via it's digital IO. Leave it diconnected from the UPS and set to Always On and then when you have issues you can login to it and using it's digital IO you can at your option reset or power your other boxes.


I really like the ping external addresses function of that iboot, I am going to have to put some thought into how I can replicate that functionality into my DVRs. Very cool and thanks for the link GKusnick.

Personally, I'd go the remote access IPSEC VPN and IPMI KVM redirect route maybe get a Supermicro x7sbe + simso and skip the pain

Just an alternative

[korben_dallas]

Going on a 5 week test run. I won't have internet access, so the PC & SageTV will be on their own.

Wish me (and them) luck.

[cohnhead]

Hire a somewhat responsible high school or college kid in the neighborhood to check on things once a week. Pay him extra to go reset the server in the middle of the night if you call/e-mail him.

[davephan]

Using nielm's webserver is a great idea for when you can get to a computer that has Internet access to help manage your recordings. If your public IP address does not change very often or is fixed, I suggest creating a short, easy to remember URL for the web server, linking the short URL to your web server IP. The URL would link to something like: http://<public IP address>:8080/sage/Home. Make sure that your router also forwards the port 8080 traffic to your SageTV computer. Test the URL link out before going out of town. There are many free, small URL linking sites, one of them is www.tinyurl.com.

Another consideration is thinking about how much video you will be able to watch when you return. I just added a couple TB drives to my system to increase video storage. I was running out of disk space all the time before, even when compressing the videos. Maybe some of the videos should just be deleted if I will never get the time to watch them - but it's tough to delete many videos, since I might want to watch them 'someday'.


Dave

[korben_dallas]

Back in town and proud to report SageTV ran like a champ the whole time.

There was at least one power failure (blinking 12:00 on my alarm clock), but the UPS did its job.

Now I just have to watch about 100 shows..

[GKusnick]

I recently left mine unattended for about three weeks. Worked great until some phone company guy accidentally dislodged a wire on my DSL circuit while working on a neighbor's line. Had to wait till I got home before their repair department would send someone out to troubleshoot. Of course by then Sage had run out of EPG data and stopped recording. *sigh*