Playback of HD-PVR h.264.ts, XP, Vista, Overlay, VMR9, EVR, DXVA1/2, What I know...

[GollyJer]

This post is so I have something to come back to and remind myself about all the things I've determined during the last couple days of research, trial, error, and success. Maybe it will help someone else out and/or spark some good discussion...

I have one basic overriding request of my SageTV system. "Play video flawlessly". The best way to accomplish this is to ensure the DXVA Hardware decoding feature of the video card is being utilized.

I once wrote a post in hopes of helping others attain full dxva support with shiny see-through vmr9 menu effects. That was back in the "dark ages" of Windows XP. I've since moved on to Vista and an Nvidia 8600GT video card which removed the requirement for Full Screen Exclusive mode. Now I can switch between Firefox or any other program without having to exit Sage. All was right with the world. Those were the "good old days..."

Today, we have the HD-PVR. It provides unadulterated HD goodness (ex the HD audio for now) straight from your cable provider of choice. I've made the full switch to three HD-PVRs hooked to three Motorola-DCT6200's controlled by SageTV via firewire channel changing. All my other tuners are now extinct (HVR-950, HD-Fusion, HDHR) and the overall setup is MUCH simpler. However, we're no longer dealing with MPEG2. We're now dealing with h.264. You only have to search for "hd-pvr" to feel the trouble people are having.

Here's what I know:

1. DXVA = GPU "Hardware" Accelerated video decoding.
2. Windows XP uses DXVA1. Windows Vista uses DXVA2.
3. DXVA2 is part of the Microsoft Media Foundation (MF); the multimedia framework/structure built into Windows Vista.
4. DXVA2 provides superior hardware decoding (among other improvements) but can only be used with Enhanced Video Renderer (EVR) and a compatible decoder.
5. Modern decoders (Arcsoft, Cyberlink, etc.) are DXVA2 compatible.
6. DXVA2 is not supported by the Overlay or VMR9 renderers.
7. Most video software now support EVR. This is why playback looks great in Arcsoft Total Media Extreme, Media Player Classic HC, WMP 11, etc, when using Vista.
8. Sage does not yet have EVR support. It is difficult to implement with the complexity of SageTV. They are working on it.
9. DXVA1 is supported in Vista through a realtime translator when using Overlay or VMR9 renderers (which is why there are no problems with MPEG2 recordings in Sage).
10. For a reason I can't determine, Vista does not execute the DXVA1 translation for h.264 video (which is why we're hitting this hd-pvr playback roadblock with Sage).

Armed with this knowledge, here's what I've done to get DXVA support for HD-PVR 1080i (always the hardest to decode) recordings.

1. Install a spare hard drive in my Vista/SageTV client machine.
2. Boot to this drive and install Windows XP with all the Windows Updates and newest hardware drivers so it matches my Vista install.
3. Install Sage 6.4.6 & Arcsoft Total Media Extreme.
4. Set SageTV's Audio/Video settings all to "default" except for the renderer which is set to VMR9.
5. Play an HD-PVR recording while watching the CPU utilization.
6. 0-2% CPU utilization. Yes! DXVA is working.
7. Video is stuttering. Damn!
8. Turn on Full Screen Exclusive (FSE) mode, just like the "dark ages". No stuttering, but pixelated interlacing during fast movement. hmm...
9. Turn off FSE and switch to Overlay renderer. Perfect playback!

So, it's been two steps forward, one step back, and a shimmy sideways.
What I've gained: A straight forward HD-PVR server setup.
What I've lost: Support for modern shiny see-through menus, a small amount of video quality, the use of Vista as an OS (yes, I know that last one is a matter of personal opinion).

I'll take the gain over the loss at this point. When Sage supports EVR (which will be sweet), or Vista starts translating to DXVA1 for h.264, I'll boot back to my Vista hard drive and get all the losses back.

What do you think? Do you have a different experience with HD-PVR recordings and hardware accelerated video playback? Come with some hard facts if so! I'll keep this post updated with changes as more information comes to light.

TIP: Before trying to fix playback issues determine what video formats your GPU can accelerate. Scroll down to the DXVA Checker section of this Japanese page and click the link that has a size next to it (currently 110kb). The application is in English.

[james_k_p]

What are your pc specs?

I'd like to get a hd-pvr, but I've had a few issues with mkv stuttering a little with particular 1080p mkv files. This is my main PC, an AMD 6400+ (3.2ghz) with 2 gigs of RAM and a x1900txt radeon on a asrock dual sata2 mb. This is running XP 32bit pro.

Now why I post this is I just found out something interesting last week. I bought a PC from a friend, a INTEL Duo Core 2 6750 (2.6ghz I believe, but I overlocked it to 3ghz) with only 1 gig of RAM. 4GB are on the way from newegg. Anyways, I installed Vista 64bit on it, installed my sagetv on it, and presto...no stuttering on these particular files. This is on a drive with the OS installed on it too without 64k clusters.

So I'm wondering if 64bit OS vs. 32bit really is the difference here, or xp vs. vista, or what. I plan on installing Vista 64bit on a different drive in my AMD to see if I get non-stuttering results too. It's crazy. This intel system is using lame on board video too.

It can't be speed, because the AMD should win out on a test like this. Maybe intel processors do something better when it comes to video decoding? Of course these files play flawless on both systems using media player classic.

So anyways, not to threadjack, but for those reasons...what's your computer specs?

[ben_95sl1]

Can you include which video card/drivers you are using.

[bmac.to]

Great post - thanks.

I am running Vista Ultimate 64-bit with a Hauppauge HVR-2250 tuner connected to OTA. I have one of the ATI Radeon 4850 boards (Avivo mpeg assist).

Since I currently only have one Sage box (no extenders, etc) and I am only running OTA content, I believe I only care about MPEG2 decoding.

What renderer/decoder combination would you expect to yield the best result (quality, low cpu utilization, fancy see-through menus, etc)?

Thanks.
________
EXTREME VAPORIZER REVIEW

[GollyJer]

@James & Ben
Asus P5W DH motherboard
Intel E6600
2GB RAM
Nvidia 8600GT Video card (always updated to the newest drivers)
Onboard audio card

@James
That's interesting regarding Vista x64. Are you using VMR9? If so, maybe x64 is able to do the translation to DXVA1 where Vista x86 (32-bit) can't. I have a copy of x64 Vista Ultimate, and although I wouldn't expect it to be different than x86, maybe I'll give it a shot and see.

@BMac
With Vista I never had a problem with the exact specs above and the Cyberlink PowerDVD 7 decoders. With those decoders I followed the same setup as my How I stopped VMR9 Stuttering... post but replace Nvidia with Cyberlink anywhere you read it in the post (mainly the GraphEdit section). Also, Vista releaved the need for Full Screen Exclusive mode.

[GollyJer]

By the way, here the DXVA Checker readout for my card.

[Polypro]

Nice run down, thanks. Our hardware is identical...so the E6600 gets pegged with HD-PVR files? What about 720p (ABC's Lost looks amazing...don't think I'd miss 1080i)? What do you think about an E8400...they're about $150 right now?

P

[wayner]

Is the stuttering caused by the CPU not being fast enough to decode the H.264 files? I am just setting up Sage on a new PC running Vista HP. I have a E8400 CPU and a Radeon HD 3850. Will I see the same problems?

One more questions Gollyjer - where do I find the instructions on using firewire channel change with Sage?

[GollyJer]

On my SageTV Server machine I have a E6600 with an Nvidia 7600GT card that works fine for playback with no stutter. However, I've always preferred the quality of video played through the hardware acceleration of Nvidia cards. They provide better color with a sharper picture. When I built the SageClent machine in our media room I purchases an 8600 card in anticipation of of using the h.264 acceleration in Sage. However, given the issues I've been having with Sage/DXVA/h.264 I'm thinking it's really a SageTV problem and may go back to software decoding until they get it fixed.

I've been trying other codecs today as I still get some problems on certain channels (mainly Comedy Central) with Arcsoft. I've been messing around with Cyerberlink's newest decoder (8.0). When building a graph in Graphedit with everything set to Cyberlink (demux, video decoder, audio decoder), the video plays perfectly. It's when I swap the SageTV MPEG Demultiplexer for the Cyberlink Demux that things hit the fan. The SageTV Demux is from MainConcept. I'm not sure if they alter the code themselves at all, but I'm willing to bet this is the source of the playback problems we're having with hd-pvr recordings. The Demux is the only part of the playback graph that can't be changed when using SageTV and it doesn't seem to play well with HD codecs. I downloaded MainConcept's demo codecs and the demux wouldn't play well with it's own decoders when using an hd-pvr video source. Until this is fixed I don't think we'll get reliable DXVA playback of hd-pvr recordings.

RE: Firewire channel change. If you haven't already found it, the instructions are here.

[jphhughes]

I recently purchased the SageTV bundel of the HD-PVR and SageTV license (my second license). I have spent many hours trying to get the two to play nice without any success. I came across this thread and some others which seem to say that currently the HD-PVR and SageTV will not work without stuttering or poor playback and that the problems is directly related to SageTV software. Well after much expermentation which included trying the SageTV beta Demux it just does not work. However having been a StageTV user since the Frey days I believe this will eventually be fixed. Meanwhile I have purchased a very expensive piece of electronics that i not usable with SageTV.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by jphhughes

I came across this thread and some others which seem to say that currently the HD-PVR and SageTV will not work without stuttering or poor playback and that the problems is directly related to SageTV software.

That's not true for everyone - the post above yours says "I have a E6600 with an Nvidia 7600GT card that works fine for playback with no stutter" I do not have any noticable stutter on my Sage PC.

[jphhughes]

wayner, do you have any suggstions as why this is the case. Perhaps if you shared your current settings that might help me and others. I would say that that if yours works then mine should as well. Any suggestion would be greatly appreicated.

Edit: When I re-read that post I thing it implies that it works if you eliminate hardware accelleration.

[wayner]

I am running Vista HP - so that appears to be one difference. My CPU is not as fast as yours as I have a E8400. My GPU is a HD 3650. Maybe Sage works better with ATI cards than Nvidia. I don't think hardware acceleration is even an option with Vista but I could be wrong. By the way, I would recommend using firewire to control your SA4250, assuming that your firewire port is active, which it likely is.

[jerryt]

Originally Posted by wayner

Maybe Sage works better with ATI cards than Nvidia.

Sage works great with my Nvidia 8600GTS

[jphhughes]

jerryt, I'm glad to here that. Perhaps you can tell me hiow you have it configured keeping in mind that I am having the problems with the HD-PVR. Otherwise SageTv does work great with the 8600GTS. Any suggestion on how to get it to work great with the HD-PVr would be appreicated. Thanks

[HelenWeathers]

jphhughes: Here's a thread you should read thru. One page only but good variety.

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...ad.php?t=36135

The system in my signature was running without error as a SageTV standalone when I had an nVidia 9600GT in it. Decided to make it a Sage server and get client licenses for bedrooms/living room. Everything is still running smoothly as a server w clients.

I do power cycle my server routinely (shuts down at 4AM daily, turns on at 4PM weekdays and 10AM Sat/Sun).

[jphhughes]

HelenWeathers, thanks for the link. I read through the thread and the only thing I see suggested that I havent tried is the USB headers connection suggestion. In reading all of these threads it seem the people using server/clent configuration with the HD-100 do not have these problems, but people using "a computer" for recording do. One thing is for sure I am not about to buy a Hd-100 for $200 at this point. Thanks again for the suggestion.

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by jphhughes

In reading all of these threads it seem the people using server/clent configuration with the HD-100 do not have these problems, but people using "a computer" for recording do.

Well, mine are all computers and no HD-100s. The only issue I had (other that the USB thing) was having CPUs, graphics cards and codecs up to HD standards.

My Sage settings remained at the defaults on server and clients, except I am running my clients in overlay mode rather than VMR9.

[judoGTI]

I want to bring this thread back from the dead because I just upgraded my HTPC and bought a HD-PVR and am having very similiar issues.

Here is my hardware:
CPU: AMD 64 X2 7750 2.7G AM2
Video Card: VGA ASUS EN9500GT TOP/DI/512M RT (nVidia 9500GT)
RAM: 2GB DDR2 1066
HD-PVR: driver 1.0.5.3
OS: XP ServicePack 2

I think Im using hardware acceleration because when I check the CPU usage its under 15%. (is there a way I can turn this off to force software decoding only? This machine should be beefy enough to handle it)

If I use Overlay I get no stuttering full screen at 1920x1080 (60hz)
If I use VMR I get no stuttering if I use sage in a small window, but as soon as I resize the window to about 2/3 max size of the screen it starts to stutter bad. This is what confuses me. Why would VMR no stutter small but stutter in a larger window?

I've even tried adding this to my sage.properties 'videoframe/aac_audio_decoder_filter=ArcSoft Audio Decoder' via this thread, post #13 (http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...0&postcount=13)

I'm a little bummed because I was really looking forward to using VMR with my new box, and I bought enough horsepower that I should be able to use it happily with Sage & HD-PVR. I'm open to trying anything, please help!

[GollyJer]

Hi judoGTI. Since this post SageTV has included the ability to use EVR in Vista.
I now run Vista on all my clients and there is zero tearing issues in full screen mode or otherwise. With your video card (I'm using an 8600 with no problem) you should be golden.

Regards,
-Jeremy