Sage TV & HD-PVR: better with Dish or DirecTV or irrelevant?

[sleonard]

Yes, you should change it to 480i. The s-video connection is limited to 480 i/p and the Hauppauge 500 is limited to 480i.

S

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by spaceghost

Chriscic, if you have a small HDTV you may not notice....

just my opinion.

It's only 116". Maybe I won't notice

[spaceghost]

Good luck to you Chriscic. My post was a little cut throat, sorry about that. Thought I read Dish upgraded their encoders? Maybe not. I just miss the old days 'back home' where the cable provider didn't know how to compress anything and the 5 HD channels were really HD. Heck it took them twice as long as everyone else to turn on 5c. If it's any consolation, using Dish as a source and re-encoded\downrez'd clips to 720p looks pretty good. If you PVR the 'real' HD channels on Dish they look outstanding as well (Discovery, etc).

I'm heading to STL Stanger.

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by spaceghost

Good luck to you Chriscic. My post was a little cut throat, sorry about that. Thought I read Dish upgraded their encoders? Maybe not. I just miss the old days 'back home' where the cable provider didn't know how to compress anything and the 5 HD channels were really HD. Heck it took them twice as long as everyone else to turn on 5c. If it's any consolation, using Dish as a source and re-encoded\downrez'd clips to 720p looks pretty good. If you PVR the 'real' HD channels on Dish they look outstanding as well (Discovery, etc).

I'm heading to STL Stanger.

No worries; I didn't take it as cut-throat at all.

I think I'm going DirecTV instead of Dish though. The HD-PVR through Sage already takes so darn long to change channels I want the serial cable channel changing to make the wait as reasonable as possible. Plus, the fact that I *think* DirecTV has as good or better quality, and can switch output of the native resolution for each channel (who knows I may record some SD) throws me over the edge.

[thomaszoo]

I ordered the HD Absolute package July 29th with 2 HD receivers and they were supposed to install it yesterday morning. They even called to remind us they would be out between 8 & 12. No one showed, no calls. I called them about 1:30. Got the most useless person on the phone, kept going around in circles and never answered my question.

I called back a couple hours later and got cut off. The third person was able to give me the number of the local installer. They said that the equipment had not arrived but they would send someone out the next morning between 8 & 10. The guy shows up with a VIP222 2-room receiver. I told him I wanted 2 separate receivers. He claimed that the 222 delivered HD to both TVs (it doesn't). He asked if I wanted him to at least install the dish. I said not until they have the right equipment. He called in and then suggested I do the same.

Calling back in to change the equipment I was told they no longer offer the HD Absolute package but I could sign up for one of the new TurboHD packages. I told them I wanted the package I signed up for and if they couldn't do it then let me talk to someone who could or just cancel my order. The next person I spoke with seemed to understand what I wanted but then proceeded to say that if any changes were made I would not be able to keep the HD Absolute package. I said I wasn't making changes, I only wanted them to give me what I ordered! (I was really getting mad by this time). Then she starts to explain that with TurboHD it would be so much faster; I cut her off, telling her that I wasn't interested in marketing, that the equipment was the same and I JUST WANTED WHAT I ORDERED!!!

She insisted that nothing else could be done; I told her to just cancel the order. I was put on hold and just simply hung up at that point. So I really don't know what they are going to do, but I suspect there will be some credit card charges I will need to have reversed!

I really don't understand why a company like Dish can't deliver a simple order like mine.

[Chriscic]

Wow, that's bad customer service. Typical, they (meaning most companies) can't deal with any kind of exceptions well (even though they created this one to begin with). Good luck...

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by Chriscic

Wow, that's bad customer service. Typical, they (meaning most companies) can't deal with any kind of exceptions well (even though they created this one to begin with). Good luck...

Yeah, I agree. I am currently a Comcast customer and have found the Comcast CSRs can do quite a bit in the exception arena without any outside help. And remember, all I wanted from Dish is what I had ordered, not anything special.

With Comcast I am unhappy with the (continued) lack of HD programming (with no word from them on when they will roll out additional channel), the cost of the service (coupled with the annual rate increases) and the decrease in the "friendliness" of the cable system. By "friendliness" I mean that in the past you could just hook up the cable directly to a TV without a cable box. However, they seem to be going back to the old model of requiring a box for every set. Going to satellite would give me additional HD programming today along with 2 HD boxes which is better than the single HD box I am getting from Comcast. Although I will stay with Comcast for the time being, I will continue looking elsewhere for a better deal.

Has anyone installed a dish themselves? How difficult or easy is it to align with the satellite? Thanks.

Wayne

[bcjenkins]

I haven't done one in a while, but I think they have alignment markers on the dish and you need a compass.

B

[stanger89]

You'll need some patience to point a dish. For Dish Network, it's not horrible, they've got a calculator which gives you the azimuth (compass direction), elevation (how high), and skew (tilt) for your zip code. There are marks on the dish for elevation and skew.

With those and a compass, you should be able to find the satellite (a cheapo satellite finder will be helpfull), after that, you'll need to use the IRD to make sure you're pointing at the right satellites and to tweak the alignment to get the best reception across all the satellites. Remember that with Dish you're using 3 satellites now.

If you wanted (and this would be easier, potentially better, but not as aestetically desireable) you can use 3 single LNB dishes vs 1 multi-LNB dish.

[thomaszoo]

Thanks for the tips, but I think it will be awhile before I make any changes.

Since I wasn't sure if Dish Network had canceled my order, I called them back today and first asked to reschedule my install. Then I asked what equipment would be installed. They still had the VIP 222 on the order. I said that I had requested 2 separate HD receivers. After awhile she told me she was able to change that but it would incur a $7/mo charge; I reluctantly agreed even though the web site did not show that. Then I asked what she showed my monthly bill would be. It was around $60/mo. I asked what plan I was signed up for and got the run around, but it was clearly one of the newer TurboHD plans. When I pressed her on the plan name she transferred me to an account specialist. When I asked why I couldn't get the Absolute HD package that I signed up for she said it was because the account was not activated! She stated she could not change that. I told her to cancel the account which she said she did.

I have filed a complaint with the FTC on the "Bait & Switch" tactic. But I would like to hear from those who did get the $30/mo deal, especially if you have your first bill. Also, did you get two VIP 211 receivers?

Wayne

[Chriscic]

I'm hardly an expert on the dish HD packages, but I thought the new TurboHD packages offered more or less the same thing for the same price, but with a few different tiers of packages. Not true?

[Polypro]

I've always done my own installs (DirecTV twice)...it isn't hard. Plug in the numbers and wait til you get a solid tone, then tweak for max strength. A partner is nice to have, but not essential.

P

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

I have filed a complaint with the FTC on the "Bait & Switch" tactic. But I would like to hear from those who did get the $30/mo deal, especially if you have your first bill. Also, did you get two VIP 211 receivers?

Wayne

I certainly sympathize with your situation but it's not exactly a "Bait & Switch", I'd chalk it more up to bad timing and limitations in their system. The "issue" is that the HD Absolute package has been discontinued (I knew I should have signed up), the only way to get it was to get it before 7/31, and it sounds like there may have been a bug/oversight in their system that mishandled accounts that were created before then but not activated.

I know the $30 package exists, people on Satellite Guys (and here I think) have the package. The plan was for those who had it to be grandfathered along until Feb 08 when everything transitions over to Turbo HD.

Not trying to make excuses, as you definitely should have recieved what what you ordered, and I can definitely understand you cancelling after the hastle you went through, but I really don't think there was any sort of intentional misdirection going on. There seems to be a lot of confusion regarding HD Absolute and Turbo HD all around.

Originally Posted by Chriscic

I'm hardly an expert on the dish HD packages, but I thought the new TurboHD packages offered more or less the same thing for the same price, but with a few different tiers of packages. Not true?

Turbo HD are a little different. HD Absolute was basically the AT250+HD Ultimate package without the SD channels and no RSNs. Turbo HD packages also follow the ATxxx+HD packages, but they include RSNs and are $10 more base (meaning Turbo HD Gold is $40/month) and then there's an additional $10 charge to get the remaining, exclusively HD, channels.

So net, if I understand it all correctly, is that to keep all the channels in the HD Absolute package, you need TurboHD Gold + the $10/month upgrade for the exclusive HD channels (HDnet, HDnet Movies, UHD, etc), so it's $20/more than HD Absolute.

Which bums be out because the big bummer is existing subscribers can't switch to TurboHD until Feb 08.

[bialio]

Wasn't Feb 08 six months ago?

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I certainly sympathize with your situation but it's not exactly a "Bait & Switch", I'd chalk it more up to bad timing and limitations in their system. The "issue" is that the HD Absolute package has been discontinued (I knew I should have signed up), the only way to get it was to get it before 7/31, and it sounds like there may have been a bug/oversight in their system that mishandled accounts that were created before then but not activated.

I would bet that "bug/oversight" has existed for quite some time and they have no motivation to fix it. I agree that it is not exactly a "Bait & Switch"; a lot of what I said was venting. But regardless, they should have held up their end of the bargain. That was my main point. Second point was they have really lousy customer service.

What I should have done was to sign up long ago when I first heard about it. But I thought it would be around for a while longer. Believe it or not, all this would not preclude me from signing up with them in the future. But I know now of a few things to watch out for.

[popechild]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I certainly sympathize with your situation but it's not exactly a "Bait & Switch", I'd chalk it more up to bad timing and limitations in their system. The "issue" is that the HD Absolute package has been discontinued (I knew I should have signed up), the only way to get it was to get it before 7/31, and it sounds like there may have been a bug/oversight in their system that mishandled accounts that were created before then but not activated.

I ordered the Absolute HD package just in time I guess. I ordered mid-July with an install date of August 1st. The guy came out and did the install on the 1st, and I just got my first bill, which is for the correct amount ($35/mo - one VIP 211 receiver + locals). I was debating whether or not to go for it. I'm definitely glad I did now.

I know the $30 package exists, people on Satellite Guys (and here I think) have the package. The plan was for those who had it to be grandfathered along until Feb 08 when everything transitions over to Turbo HD.

Can you explain what this means?

Turbo HD are a little different. HD Absolute was basically the AT250+HD Ultimate package without the SD channels and no RSNs. Turbo HD packages also follow the ATxxx+HD packages, but they include RSNs and are $10 more base (meaning Turbo HD Gold is $40/month) and then there's an additional $10 charge to get the remaining, exclusively HD, channels.

So net, if I understand it all correctly, is that to keep all the channels in the HD Absolute package, you need TurboHD Gold + the $10/month upgrade for the exclusive HD channels (HDnet, HDnet Movies, UHD, etc), so it's $20/more than HD Absolute.

So it's $20/mo more, and for the extra $20 you basically get the RSNs? I was bummed I didn't get any RSNs w/ HD Absolute, and actually felt annoyed that I had gotten the Absolute the first time I saw a Turbo ad and it listed RSNs, but it's not worth another $20/month to me. So again, I guess I got in just in time.

Which bums be out because the big bummer is existing subscribers can't switch to TurboHD until Feb 08.

Again, what does this mean? Will I be forced to the other plan, at the higher cost? Or does this mean I couldn't switch until then (I'm assuming you mean 09) even if I wanted to?

[bastafidli]

That is correct. I got the DishHD 29.99 in late June. I tried to switch to TurboHD last week and have been told it is only for new subscribers.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

I would bet that "bug/oversight" has existed for quite some time and they have no motivation to fix it.

Not sure what you mean, their packages are usually pretty stable (in terms of the options they offer, AT100, AT150, AT250, HD or not, etc), what happened on 7/31-8/1 is not a common occurrence, that being the discontinuation of one package (HD Absolute) and replacement by others (TurboHD). It's not like they constantly have the HD Absolute package that they offer to new subscribers only to switch them over to TurboHD.

In fact, in many ways, it seems like the HD Absolute package was sort of "misplanned" on their part, in that they introduced it only to replace it a couple months later.

I agree that it is not exactly a "Bait & Switch"; a lot of what I said was venting. But regardless, they should have held up their end of the bargain. That was my main point. Second point was they have really lousy customer service.

I agree, they signed you up for HD Absolute and 2, 211's, they should have got you those. Just curious, did you sign up directly or through a local installer?

What I should have done was to sign up long ago when I first heard about it. But I thought it would be around for a while longer.

Yeah, I'd read about TurboHD and how it would basically be tiered HD Absolute but with the addition of RSNs, but I never really expected them to drop the HD Absolute offering when TurboHD went live, and I definitely didn't expect to be unable to sign up for TurboHD.

Originally Posted by popechild

Can you explain what this means?

It means I, who have AT250+HD Ultimate can't switch to TurboHD. Turbo HD is only offered to new customers until Feb 09 (hey, I live in the past bialio ). At least that's how I understand it, and I've got no TurboHD option in my programming options on the website.

I'm sort of bummed that I can't change and save that money, but at the same time, this way I don't lose the couple channels that had prevented me from switching the moment HD Absolute went live.

So it's $20/mo more, and for the extra $20 you basically get the RSNs? I was bummed I didn't get any RSNs w/ HD Absolute, and actually felt annoyed that I had gotten the Absolute the first time I saw a Turbo ad and it listed RSNs, but it's not worth another $20/month to me. So again, I guess I got in just in time.

Well it's only $10 if you don't care about HDnet*, Universal HD, Smithsonian, MGM or the other exclusively HD channels.

Again, what does this mean? Will I be forced to the other plan, at the higher cost? Or does this mean I couldn't switch until then (I'm assuming you mean 09) even if I wanted to?

My understanding is that current customers can't switch to standalone TurboHD until Feb 09 (they can add "TurboHD" to an existing package though). And actually I can't find a reference to the Feb 09 date anywhere, think I just saw that reading satelliteguys.

[popechild]

Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense now.

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by stanger89

My understanding is that current customers can't switch to standalone TurboHD until Feb 09 (they can add "TurboHD" to an existing package though). And actually I can't find a reference to the Feb 09 date anywhere, think I just saw that reading satelliteguys.

So sounds like the Absolute HD deal was a bit better... then why does it seem some folks aren't happy that existing users can't switch to the new TurboHD?

Or perhaps you mean current Dish subscribers who weren't already Absolute HD subscribers...