Unrest in Microsoft VMC Land

[Brent]

Have any other SageTV folks been noticing the growing, unhappy rumblings of VMC users? If the lack of DirecTV tuner and h.264 support in Fiji turn out to be true, be ready for a surge of former VMC traffic on these forums.

If there's not already there should be some "how to convert from VMC to SageTV" how-to's ready for them....

[vapore0n]

Im one of those unhappy customers.

I want to use an hd-pvr and currently VMC does not support it.
I want native blu-ray support, and yep not there
QAM? not there, though wouldnt need it if the hd-pvr worked.

Im considering Sage, but it has few things I dont like:
- doesnt "it just works" as well as VMC. You have to play with it to make it work. Last time I tried it, it made VMC not work at all, so had to uninstall it.
- doesnt look as good as VMC. Personal opinion, but I think sage looks more like MCE. Ive tried numerous skins, but they still dont have the polish VMC has. Needs a facelift
- no smart aspect setting. Something MCE and VMC have for tv and really usefull for 4:3 tv viewing. This one kills the deal. Wont move to sage unless this gets implemented.

[stanger89]

The HD extender can do non-linear stretch of 4:3 TV.

[jdamore]

The plague is spreading!

[TechJunkie]

I am a new user to SageTV, about 2 weeks. I am an x Vista MC user. I wanted an extender but read nothing positive about Media Center extenders. I came across SageTV with an extender that works, support for Windows Home Server, and the ability to use my 6 year old MVP as an extender. It became a no brainier.
I am not sure about a smart ratio setting; I had to set my ratio manually for the different movies I played through VMC. Not a fan of 4:3 content and when I have no option I prefer not stretching the picture to fit a 16:9 screen.
The VMC interface is very nice when it is using MCML. Most of the add-on built for VMC are HTML. The beautiful is lost and when compared to SageMC, VMC add-ons can not hold its on (MO).
Running SageTV extenders from a server instead of your Media center PC was (MO) the smartest thing SageTV did.
There are some things that have been developed for MCE/VMC that people love ex: MyMovies. I have and still use MyMovies to organize my DVDs and will be looking into coding an add-on for SageTV to that will access the MyMovies Database. I have already moved my MyMovies database to my Windows Home Server. My only problem now is learn Java and coming from Microsoft .net world it seems a little challenging.
Here is to SageTV and all its users.

Originally Posted by vapore0n

Im one of those unhappy customers.

I want to use an hd-pvr and currently VMC does not support it.
I want native blu-ray support, and yep not there
QAM? not there, though wouldnt need it if the hd-pvr worked.

Im considering Sage, but it has few things I dont like:
- doesnt "it just works" as well as VMC. You have to play with it to make it work. Last time I tried it, it made VMC not work at all, so had to uninstall it.
- doesnt look as good as VMC. Personal opinion, but I think sage looks more like MCE. Ive tried numerous skins, but they still dont have the polish VMC has. Needs a facelift
- no smart aspect setting. Something MCE and VMC have for tv and really usefull for 4:3 tv viewing. This one kills the deal. Wont move to sage unless this gets implemented.

[bialio]

Originally Posted by jdamore

The plague is spreading!

VMC is the plague. Sage is the cure.

[vapore0n]

but I want something without relying on extenders.
My main pc is my htpc. My only TV is my display.

Im waiting to see what happens in a few weeks when Comcast switches over to full Digital in my town.

[mr_lore]

count me in, came over from VMC as well, just seemed like everytime I read about something cutting edge and tried to impliment it I got screwed, SageTV made it happen with a smile.

Currently running an FTA setup via DVBDream network streaming to sage with full epg support, no xmltv plugin needed


Put 20 work hours towards trying to get something similar set up with VMC via DVBSBrdige and all I got was problems, crashing, and an impossible EPG.

Sage took about 3hrs to figure out from scratch by comparison.

[jdrake]

Originally Posted by Brent

Have any other SageTV folks been noticing the growing, unhappy rumblings of VMC users? If the lack of DirecTV tuner and h.264 support in Fiji turn out to be true, be ready for a surge of former VMC traffic on these forums.

If there's not already there should be some "how to convert from VMC to SageTV" how-to's ready for them....

I am one of those unhappy VMC users ...

My setup is:

Dell XPS420, 2.4GHz Quad Core
3GB 800MHz RAM, 320GB 7200rpm HD
NVidia 9600GT 1GB w/DisplayPort
BD Drive + DVD-RW
ATI Digital Cable Tuner - CableCard through FIOS
Dell 3008 WFP 30" 2560x1600 Monitor/TV

What I want to do, but cannot do is watch HDTV usung my monitor's built-in scalar at 2560x1600 resolution using the new DisplayPort input to the TV. I can watch Blu-Ray at 2560x1600 so I know copy protection is being decoded properly according to the Display Port specification. However, VMC does not display HDTV through DisplayPort at ANY resolution, even 1920x1080!

My questions are:

Does Sage TV support ATI Digital Cable Tuner and HDTV via CableCard?

And if so, does Sage TV support viewing HDTV on monitors at resolutions over 1920x1080 through the new DisplayPort inputs on the Dell 3008WFP?

If Sage TV can do these things, I will never look back at VMC ...

Jon

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by jdrake

I am one of those unhappy VMC users ...

My questions are:

Does Sage TV support ATI Digital Cable Tuner and HDTV via CableCard?

And if so, does Sage TV support viewing HDTV on monitors at resolutions over 1920x1080 through the new DisplayPort inputs on the Dell 3008WFP?

If Sage TV can do these things, I will never look back at VMC ...

Jon

1: No cable card support, but component capture with the HDPVR, so you still get highdef.

2: Although SageTV will output whatever resolution you want, I don't know if DisplayPort has issues, since it is such a new tech for the HTPC market.

[Brent]

Jon,
As said above CableCard is a Microsoft VMC-only thing. No other vendor can use those CableCard tuners.
The HD-PVR gives you similar capabilities:
Positives

• You no longer have DRM on the output
• The PQ is very good

Negatives

• You already have a CableCard tuner so you'd have to purchase an HD-PVR and not use the CableCard tuner
• While the PQ is very good it is analog and not digital so likely not quite as good.

I've posed the question on the DisplayPort in this thread before you posted this.

[mikesm]

A R5000-HD modified STB (FIOS ones included) gives you the native MPEG2 like cablecard (no re-encoding like the HDVR, though it's quality is good), but no restrictions (DRM, etc...). I have 2 and they work great, and several folks here have them working on FIOS as well.

Plus, you all the commercial skip programs like comskip and showanalyzer work fine mpeg2 recordings, but not yet on h.264 (though should soon).

FIOS is GREAT as they don't monkey with the MPEG stream like the cable guys do.

The R5000 is the only way to go if you have cable or FIOS in my opinion.

[Brent]

Wow, lots of unhappy people over at the GreenButton Forums. I'll be surprised if we don't see many of them at least taking a peek at what SageTV can do for them.

[mikejaner]

We should post a video in the forums of Sagetv in action with the HDPVR and the extenders.

[frankinla]

I have always liked (loved) the clean, elegant, and highly polished look of Media Center, but MS is taking it in a direction I won't go. Actually, where I've wanted to go is where SageTV has been going for a while. Client software (aka, Softsled), Placeshifting, QAM, multiple sources (i.e., Digital cable, QAM, OTA and analogue) and now component capture!! Add to that, DRM free recordings I can easily do anything with. Seriously, the only thing really holding me to Vista Media Center was that it LOOKED so good, cause other then that, MS treats their costumer like crap.

Been playing around with the demo, and now it's time to get serious. I'm getting some new hardware, a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 for now, and an HD-PVR latter. Was thinking about setting Sage up on my desktop and then installing the client on my VMC.

Here's a starter question: My VMC has two Aver Media M780s installed. Will the Sage client and the VMC co-exist?

Here's another question: If I decide to go Linux, would my windows software key work? or do I need to buy a new version?

More: How well do MCE remotes play with SageTV and Client?

Can I actually use multiple sources, such as Digital cable, QAM, OTA and analogue (while it last)?

I understand there is a Netflix plug-in, but how about Hulu?

Also, are there any internet Radio plug-ins, like for AOL radio?

That's enough for now..

Thanx

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by frankinla

Here's another question: If I decide to go Linux, would my windows software key work? or do I need to buy a new version?

The Windows & Linux keys are not interchangeable nor are they convertible, so you would have to buy the one for the OS you plan to use.

More: How well do MCE remotes play with SageTV and Client?

SageTV can recognize commands from MCE remotes, but to use the blaster requires 3rd party software; see the stickies in the hardware forum for more info.

Can I actually use multiple sources, such as Digital cable, QAM, OTA and analogue (while it last)?

Yes -- for example, I am using digital OTA, QAM, analog cable, and cable STB sources.

- Andy

[frankinla]

Originally Posted by Opus4

The Windows & Linux keys are not interchangeable nor are they convertible, so you would have to buy the one for the OS you plan to use.

SageTV can recognize commands from MCE remotes, but to use the blaster requires 3rd party software; see the stickies in the hardware forum for more info.

Yes -- for example, I am using digital OTA, QAM, analog cable, and cable STB sources.

- Andy

Sweet, thanx. The multi source thing is huge plus for Sage, and much like QAM is often promised, much delayed in VMC.

Perhaps someone could confirm this: There is no FM radio in SageTV?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by frankinla

I understand there is a Netflix plug-in, but how about Hulu?

No Hulu yet at least. Would LOVE to have a Hulu Plugin. The netflix plugin works great though.

Also, are there any internet Radio plug-ins, like for AOL radio?

There is a Pandora Radio Plugin which is very nice.
The AOL Radio quit working with VMC this week I think because AOL radio was purchased by CBS Radio. There is also another web radio plugin some use, but I've not tried it.

There is no FM radio in SageTV?

No there isn't

[frankinla]

Originally Posted by Brent

No Hulu yet at least. Would LOVE to have a Hulu Plugin. The netflix plugin works great though.


There is a Pandora Radio Plugin which is very nice.
The AOL Radio quit working with VMC this week I think because AOL radio was purchased by CBS Radio. There is also another web radio plugin some use, but I've not tried it.


No there isn't

Thanks, Brent. So I think I will bite the bullet and swap the the 780's for the 1600 in VMC.

What's that about AOL radio? I just checked and it's still working on my MCE2k5 machine (in the bedroom). Is it going dark soon? Cause that is something I will miss!

[Brent]

Originally Posted by frankinla

Thanks, Brent. So I think I will bite the bullet and swap the the 780's for the 1600 in VMC.

What's that about AOL radio? I just checked and it's still working on my MCE2k5 machine (in the bedroom). Is it going dark soon? Cause that is something I will miss!

That's what I read. I think I saw it on the GreenButton forums. I'm positive that AOL Radio was purchased by CBS Radio, but not positive that AOL radio on VMC (or MCE) is dead...

EDIT: Here's the GB thread where I saw the talk about AOL Radio