Setting up EPG with Sky

[harryf]

I am getting really confused with the Sage EPG setup. I'm using the RT grabber and StephaneM's importer and what I'm trying to do is set up the EPG so that I can select, say, BBC1 on the Sky box OR on the DVB-T tuner and not allow Sage to choose for me. The EPG is set up ok with Freeview channels at the moment, and I have tried to follow StephaneM's instructions on adding channels to his importer(just 1 channel for a trial) and I can get that channel to show up in the lineup for the PVR 150 I am using to capture the video from the Sky box, but it will not appear in the EPG.

Also, I am not sure how to go about automating the grabbing/importing sequence with 2 lineups. Do I set up the grabber to download all the channels for both lineups and then try and set up the importer to organise the data into 2 lineups?

I have spent days on this, and most of the info on the EPG in the forum seems to concern the TV system in the USA, which just gets me more confused. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by harryf

set up the EPG so that I can select, say, BBC1 on the Sky box OR on the DVB-T tuner and not allow Sage to choose for me.

If I understand you correctly, you want to see two BBC1 in your guide (so you can choose to use the SkyBox or DVB-T). I would recommend you to not do this, as you will loose flexibility in conflict managment.

The EPG is set up ok with Freeview channels at the moment, and I have tried to follow StephaneM's instructions on adding channels to his importer(just 1 channel for a trial) and I can get that channel to show up in the lineup for the PVR 150 I am using to capture the video from the Sky box, but it will not appear in the EPG.

My instructions are made so that when you add a duplicated channels, it will not be seen in the guide, but SageTV will know that your duplicated channels is available on two sources, and it will pick up on source based on availability.

If you want to duplicate a channel, and want to see this duplicate in the EPG, then you have to make sure that when creating the duplicate you use a new XMLTV ID. The XMLTV ID is what makes the channel unique.

So if BBC1 on DVB-T has "bbc1.co.uk" as XMLTV ID. When you create a duplicate to put BBC1 on the Sky Lineup:

* use "bbc1.co.uk" as the XMLTV ID to not see the duplicate in the guide and let SageTV handle the sources (recommended)
* use "bbc1.sky.co.uk" as the XMLTV ID to see the duplicate in the guide and manage the conflicts all by yourself.

Also, I am not sure how to go about automating the grabbing/importing sequence with 2 lineups. Do I set up the grabber to download all the channels for both lineups and then try and set up the importer to organise the data into 2 lineups?

Yes. The Importer will merge all your XMLTV files if you have more than one. But you can very well use only one XMLTV file with all channels inside.

You really just have to create the lineups and organise the channels accordingly. The Importer will now where to find the channels and when to download the XMLTV file (if specified).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[harryf]

Thanks Stephane, the reason I wanted to keep the Sky channels separate was because the picture quality on Sky is better than Freeview, so I would prefer to use Sky most of the time. I had intended to change the channel numbers in the EPG to match the Freeview and Sky numbers as listed in a TV guide eg BBC1 would be CH1 in Freeview and CH101 in Sky So you are saying that is not a good idea?

[doc]

Another option would be to create the 2 lineups in Stephane's software so that sage decided which tuner to use depending on whats in use, but set the encoder_merit higher for the Sky tuner. (in the sage.properties file)

That way, you will always end up watching the Sky channels, but if ones in use it will then revert back to the freeview ones.

[brewston]

Originally Posted by doc

Another option would be to create the 2 lineups in Stephane's software so that sage decided which tuner to use depending on whats in use, but set the encoder_merit higher for the Sky tuner. (in the sage.properties file).

Thats exactly what I have, a PVR-500 with one tuner hooked up to Sky and the other to a terrestrial aerial. Sage prefers the Sky one so I only get the picture from the aerial when the Sky one is use (and thats rare when you start watching Tv timeshifted)

My channel settings in Stephane's importer look like :

<-- lineup 1 is Sky -->
<channel id="south-east.bbc1.bbc.co.uk" name="BBC1" call-sign="BBC1" channel="101" lineup="1" />

My additonal channels tab looks like :

<-- lineup 2 is aerial -->

<channel id="BBC1" name="BBC1" call-sign="BBC1" channel="39" lineup="2" same-as="south-east.bbc1.bbc.co.uk" time-offset="0" />

So, different channel ID but same same-as. Meaning Sage only ever sees BBC1 once in the EPG but till use 2nd tuner when the first one is in use. As doc says, if you find Sage doesn't favour the Sky tuner, you can alter it in the properties file

[motobarsteward]

I've just posted the config files you need for lm gestions tools to load up Sky Free to air, which should help you on your way.

[harryf]

Another option would be to create the 2 lineups in Stephane's software so that sage decided which tuner to use depending on whats in use, but set the encoder_merit higher for the Sky tuner. (in the sage.properties file)

That's interesting, I didn't know you could do that. I have thought of another scenario: if I made a manual recording on BBC1 and Sage selected the Sky box for that, then I decided I would like to watch a programme on Sky1, I wouldn't be able to, would I? This must sound like I am trying to be awkward, but I just need to know what is possible and what is not.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by harryf

if I made a manual recording on BBC1 and Sage selected the Sky box for that, then I decided I would like to watch a programme on Sky1, I wouldn't be able to, would I?

No you will not be able to watch a program on Sky1. However it seems to me that SageTV get smarter with time. For instance I have three tuners : two DVB-T and one DVB-S. Some channels are shared on DVB-T / DVB-S. SageTV will all alone use the DVB-T tuner first for those shared channels (it appears that it knows that doing that way will minimize conflicts).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[harryf]

OK, so how do I set up Sage so that if I was to enter say 106 on the remote, it would tune to Sky1 on the Sky box, and if I entered 19 on the remote it would tune to Dave on the DVB-T tuner? That would make programme selection much simpler using a TV guide and avoid having to scroll through the EPG, thereby scoring many WAF points

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by harryf

OK, so how do I set up Sage so that if I was to enter say 106 on the remote, it would tune to Sky1 on the Sky box, and if I entered 19 on the remote it would tune to Dave on the DVB-T tuner?

For DVB-T tuner, the channel number is to be found in the .frq file. SageTV assign those channel number when you scan for channels. So the first scanned get number one etc.. You can edit this file to change the numbers (it is the first number on a line describing a channel).

Now, I would suggest that for shared channels (Sky & DVB-T), you use the channels numbers of Sky, for the other DVB-T channels you can use what you want (but it will be better if you choose unused Sky channel numbers).

Then in the XMLTV plugin you choose, you just have to use the DVB-T numbers you edited in the frq file, and for Sky numbers the number you use on the Sky set top box. In my Importer, this is in the channel editor that you type the channel numbers.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[harryf]

Stephane, I can't thank you enough for your explanation and patience with my ignorance. I also found this link
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28185 to a thread where you had explained in detail to someone else just what I'm trying to do.

I will now try to set this up and take it from there.

[harryf]

I have now set up 2 lineups, for Sky and Freeview and if I go into Channel Setup for each one, I can use "View" to see each programme. When I go to the EPG and select a Freeview channel, it works fine but if I select a Sky channel Sage freezes and I have to use "End Program" to escape. I must be close to getting this working now, it's so frustrating. Even the USB-UIRT works great. Can someone help?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by harryf

if I select a Sky channel Sage freezes and I have to use "End Program" to escape.

You mean a Sky only channel, that is one not also to be found on DVB-T. If this is not the case, then try to view first a "Sky only" channel.

Also enable debug logging in SageTV; add this line in the Sage.properties file:

* debug_logging=TRUE

And restart SageTV.

Note: if you are not using the SageTV service, I would recommend you to do so. In my experience, the only part of SageTV subject to freezes is the UI, not the service (and the service main duty is doing recordings). So if the UI freeze and you have to kill it, the recording will still be done.

With debug logging SageTV will create sagetv_0.txt log files in the SageTV installation directory (or the Virtualized Vista folder). The sagetv_0.txt is the log file for SageTV when not run in service mode, and for SageTV service when run in service mode.

Hopefully the log file will tell you something.

Note: if this is the UI that is freezing when service mode is used, then also enable debug logging for the UI (add the same debug_logging line into SageClient.properties, the log file will be sagetvclient_0.txt)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Note: if you are not using the SageTV service, I would recommend you to do so. In my experience, the only part of SageTV subject to freezes is the UI, not the service (and the service main duty is doing recordings).

IME it's not worth using the service!
The UI never locks up on me, and using the service has in the past caused all sorts of problems, especially speed problems on MVPs. I run the UI with a small background process checking that it's still alive on a regular basis. Solid as a rock.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

The UI never locks up on me, and using the service has in the past caused all sorts of problems, especially speed problems on MVPs. I run the UI with a small background process checking that it's still alive on a regular basis. Solid as a rock.

Well, I always used the service and never got any problems with it (though I don't use MVP, but PlaceShifter). However, the situation here is a lockup of SageTV, it would be wise to know if the freeze occurs in the UI, or in the recording engine. Again from my experience, the UI can freeze (the service however can crash, but it will restart by itself thanks to the Windows Service Manager)

[harryf]

You mean a Sky only channel, that is one not also to be found on DVB-T

Yes.

Also enable debug logging in SageTV; add this line in the Sage.properties file:

* debug_logging=TRUE

Is the asterisk required? I tried it with and without, see next comment.

With debug logging SageTV will create sagetv_0.txt log files in the SageTV installation directory

I can't find a sagetv_0.txt file but there is a file called tv.sage.mod.0 that seems to refresh from scratch each time Sage loads. Is this what you mean?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by harryf

Is the asterisk required?

No the asterisk shouldn't be typed, just type the text without any space. You have to add this line into the properties file while SageTV is completely shut down (UI and service). Then restart SageTV.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[harryf]

Ok, I've got a sagetv_0 file now, and I can see where it has noted the "hang" but I can't see what has caused it. I have attached the file (I think) in case it helps.

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Well, I always used the service and never got any problems with it (though I don't use MVP, but PlaceShifter). However, the situation here is a lockup of SageTV, it would be wise to know if the freeze occurs in the UI, or in the recording engine. Again from my experience, the UI can freeze (the service however can crash, but it will restart by itself thanks to the Windows Service Manager)

Obviously, it's trivial to make any program restart by itself. It's not a trick confined to services (nor, in fact, required of a service). The whole thing is snappier when not a service in my experience, and if your UI keeps freezing it's best to work out why...

Originally Posted by harryf

Ok, I've got a sagetv_0 file now, and I can see where it has noted the "hang" but I can't see what has caused it. I have attached the file (I think) in case it helps.

Have a look in System Information (in Help). What are the three JVM Heap Size figures?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

Obviously, it's trivial to make any program restart by itself. It's not a trick confined to services (nor, in fact, required of a service). The whole thing is snappier when not a service in my experience, and if your UI keeps freezing it's best to work out why...

...Thanks for your wonderful advices: "it's trivial to make any program restart by itself", not for all users. What you are suggesting is to create a process to watch another process. It may be fine for you as you know to create batch files or scripts etc... though as a developper I can assure you that it's even better to fully take advantage of the tools and services the platform you use offert to you. So in this case, Windows Service Manager is the tool of choice as its very own duty is to manage and monitor processes that are supposed to be on 24h/7d. This is after all the very definition of a services (moreover service are designed to be able to respond to power event, take care of dependecies etc...)

Now you may have issues with the service, and just as you advise to look out for my UI freeze problems, I advise you the same thing: work out why the services is not working for you... By the way : my UI is not freezing, I just say that it is more prone to freeze than the service:

* Bad transport stream file : the MpegDemux in SageTV is not the best out there => freeze the UI completely
* If Showanalyzer freeks out on a show and are creating bogus start / end commercial tags, then it can freeze the UI
* etc...

The recording engine on the other end is very stable : I never ever had a crash with a recording.

Regards,
Stéphane.