MCE user wants to switch to SAGETV.. but i need answers

[vvulture]

Hi all.
New here.
I am a current MCE user and i am looking at alternatives because MCE is driving me nuts.
My setup is as follows :
1 x Server and 2 x Clients

Here are my requirements. I need to know if SAGE can cater :
* Record TV on server if i put tuners in server
* Stream Live TV FROM server to clients
* Some sort of DVD cataloging ability like THIS or similar
* Can SAGE server go into standby after period on inactivity ?
* Can SAGE server wake up from standby when client is turned on ( WOL ) ?

Now, if all this is possible, what would be the best way to set all this up ?
I am guessing that :
* SAGETV v6.0 on server
* Placeshifter on each client

or

* SAGETV v6.0 on all 3

I hope someone can help me make the switch.

thank you :-)

[IVB]

Originally Posted by vvulture

Hi all.
New here.
I am a current MCE user and i am looking at alternatives because MCE is driving me nuts.
My setup is as follows :
1 x Server and 2 x Clients

Here are my requirements. I need to know if SAGE can cater :
* Record TV on server if i put tuners in server

yep. I have 2 SD tuners and 1 HD tuner in my server, and 3 clients.

* Stream Live TV FROM server to clients

eww, live TV? I mean, yes, it can do that.

* Some sort of DVD cataloging ability like THIS or similar

yep.

* Can SAGE server go into standby after period on inactivity ?
* Can SAGE server wake up from standby when client is turned on ( WOL ) ?

dunno, i don't do that.

Now, if all this is possible, what would be the best way to set all this up ?
I am guessing that :
* SAGETV v6.0 on server
* Placeshifter on each client

or

* SAGETV v6.0 on all 3

I hope someone can help me make the switch.

thank you :-)

sagetv6.0 on server, sagetvclient on clients.

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by vvulture

Hi all.
Now, if all this is possible, what would be the best way to set all this up ?
I am guessing that :
* SAGETV v6.0 on server
* Placeshifter on each client

or

* SAGETV v6.0 on all 3

Your choice for running SageTV, Placeshifter, or SageTVClient depends on your usage scenarios (which you haven't totally specified).

1. The only practical reason for running multiple copies of SageTV is if you have multiple boxes that you want to use as recording servers; you can run them in a networked fashion so that one of them is a master scheduler, and the others are simply recording what they are being told to do. They can also be used to watch TV. This is useful if you have a need for more tuners than a single box can hold. Most users won't fall into this scenario.

2. SageTVClient is a very powerful app that allows you to configure the video output (and other parameters); it's primary goal is to watch TV signals served up by a server on a local LAN. It's ideal if you're driving a television from your client PC; you should note that SageTV client is licensed on a per-pc basis. You must have a license for each client PC you plan to use.

3. Placeshifter is primarily designed for remote usage, streaming TV over the Internet. However, many of us (myself included) use Placeshifter instead of SageTVClient on the local LAN. Note that the configuration options are much more restricted for picture quality on Placeshifter, but the licensing structure is more flexible; placeshifter is licensed on a concurrent user basis. You must have a license for each user that watches SageTV concurrently. In other words, if you're the only one watching SageTV on both of your PC clients, and you're only watching one TV at a time, you only need one license. The Placeshifter license may also be used for the MediaMVP media extender.


In sum, if you are building dedicated clients to serve up SageTV to television sets OR you're only going to watch TV on a limited number of computers on your LAN, you probably want SageTVClient. If you are a roaming user, and want to watch TV on a variety of PC's, you may want to consider Placeshifter.

HTH,
Stu

[GKusnick]

Now that 6.1 has been released, you'd probably rather use that than 6.0.

Regarding standby and WOL, there's probably a way to make that work. But most of us just leave the server running so it can do its job of recording programs unattended. This is especially true if you want to use Intelligent Recording to capture shows you might be interested in at any hour of the day or night.

Originally Posted by sainswor99

This is useful if you have a need for more tuners than a single box can hold.

This is a bit misleading, since you're not limited to tuners that fit inside the box. With USB tuners, there's no practical limit on the number of tuners per server. (I have seven on my server.) A more plausible reason for setting up network encoders is if you have multiple cable or satellite STBs at different locations in your house and it's not feasible to move them all to one location. But still, this is a fairly advanced setup option that most users won't need.

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Regarding standby and WOL, there's probably a way to make that work. But most of us just leave the server running so it can do its job of recording programs unattended. This is especially true if you want to use Intelligent Recording to capture shows you might be interested in at any hour of the day or night.

Thats all fair enough, but i am trying to avoid leaving the server on all the time because of my electricity bill. It is adding an extra $120 per bill and the WAF is dropping.

[vvulture]

WOW !!! what fast response !!
I am impressed :-)

Thank you for the help so far.
Basically, i would like to setup a server that :
* Can stream LIVE TV to clients
* Can record all my TV shows
* Can go into standby when no activity
* Can wake up from standby automatically when client is turned on

I need my clients PC's to be able to :
* Send TV recording schedule to server
* Wake up the server from standby when turned on

In addition to all this, i need to be able to catalog my collection of DVD Box sets.
I am a big Seinfeld and X-Files fan ( don't laugh ) and i have the box sets of each on my hard drives.

My usage scenario would be one client connected at a time with maximum picture quality.

cheers

[flavius]

Extender / placeshifter licenses can be used by multiple machines - as long as you don't exceed the number of licenses registered, *full* Sage client licenses are per machine.

You probably want *full* licenses. And what's with the standby?

[wvpolekat]

Originally Posted by vvulture

Thats all fair enough, but i am trying to avoid leaving the server on all the time because of my electricity bill. It is adding an extra $120 per bill and the WAF is dropping.

$120 a bill?! My whole bill isn't $120 and I have 5 REAL rack mount servers in the basement that run 24x7 sucking down 500+ watts each one of them pushing 1000 watts.

I would put a desktop PC in the $3-5 a month class at most.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by vvulture

I need my clients PC's to be able to :
* Send TV recording schedule to server

Clients have the same UI as the server, so anything you can do from the server you can also do from any client. This is not a case of uploading a schedule from client to server; rather, no matter where you sit, you're interacting directly with the server's schedule.

Originally Posted by flavius

You probably want *full* licenses.

I'm not sure what flavius means by "*full*", but just to be perfectly clear, SageTV Client ($30/license) is not the same as the full version of SageTV Media Center ($80/license). For clients you want either SageTV Client or SageTV Placeshifter, not the full SageTV Media Center. For best image quality on non-portable clients you probably want Client rather than Placeshifter, since Client offers a lot more flexibility in terms of decoding and rendering. Placeshifter is most useful for portable clients that you want to take on the road and connect to your server via the Internet.

[flavius]

Just quote my *full* post, then it should be clear what I meant to say.

[samgreco]

I run 2 servers (one business, not Sage) and 3 desktop PCs, 24x7 and my whole house electric bill has been averaging just about $100/mo. And that includes a 26 cubic foot GE Profile fridge and my whole house audio system running 3-6 channel power amps.

I live in the 'burbs of Chicago. I don't think you need to worry about your electric bill The last server I added only uses about $3 or $4 a month.

I am trying to cut back on the electrical stuff because of the environmental issues, not budget.

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

$120 a bill?! My whole bill isn't $120 and I have 5 REAL rack mount servers in the basement that run 24x7 sucking down 500+ watts each one of them pushing 1000 watts.

I would put a desktop PC in the $3-5 a month class at most.

Not in Australia my friend... We don't have it as cheap as you guys.
Also, the bill is over 80 days

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by samgreco

I run 2 servers (one business, not Sage) and 3 desktop PCs, 24x7 and my whole house electric bill has been averaging just about $100/mo. And that includes a 26 cubic foot GE Profile fridge and my whole house audio system running 3-6 channel power amps.

I live in the 'burbs of Chicago. I don't think you need to worry about your electric bill The last server I added only uses about $3 or $4 a month.

I am trying to cut back on the electrical stuff because of the environmental issues, not budget.

My server is currently using 0.375Kw/Hr.. At a rate of 0.13327c per Kw/H, it works out at $1.20 per day, or $95 per quarter ( 80days ).

Anyway, well off the topic.

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by flavius

And what's with the standby?

What do you mean ?

[Alfiegerner]

Out of interest, what is it that is making you switch from MCE? I get the feeling the network distribution aspects of Sage are important to you. Could this be done with MCE and some xbox 360's? I'm thinking about trying out MCE soon and am bracing myself to deal with some limitations.

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by Alfiegerner

Out of interest, what is it that is making you switch from MCE? I get the feeling the network distribution aspects of Sage are important to you. Could this be done with MCE and some xbox 360's? I'm thinking about trying out MCE soon and am bracing myself to deal with some limitations.

Well, MCE has too many restrictions.
For instance, support for only 2 tuners without tweaking. When tweaked, it doesn't work properly.
Secondly, streaming of live tv is not supported.. period.
Thirdly, network recording possible with tweaking but unreliable because if there is a network dropout, you have to re-enable it manually.
Finally, the recording machine needs to stay on as well as the server.. waste of electricity in my books. At least with Sage, you can set your recordings from a client and shut it down when finished. The server takes care of the rest.

Also, using xbox360 is too fidly. Still too much tweaking to get them to do what you want...

Tell me, why are you looking at MCE ? Is Sage no good ?

My other option is MediaPortal, but the development is so slow ( because its free ), and i am sick of waiting. Also, i have tried it twice, and both times i found it extremely un-usable.

cheers

[Alfiegerner]

I've been using Sage for about 2-3 years and it's been very good to us, don't let me put you off. You should definitely try out the MVP extender btw as a client, excellent bit of a kit, great picture quality and the same Sage UI from a tiny silent box.

I came to Sage through trying Myth, Beyond and Mediaportal - though I never tried MCE as I didn't have have an MCE OS disk. At the time, with the equipment I had, it was simply the only PVR software that could record shows on 2+ tuners at the same time reliably, everything else was very unstable.

Sage has been very good to us and its functionality is top notch, but like a lot of people I have a few holes that need to be plugged and MCE may be able to do it.

The things I'm looking to get from MCE that sage doesn't provide are:

A reliable UK EPG source that doesn't involve using 3rd party tools (and potentially may stop working).

A decent HD front end extender. Sage has plans to release one, but for me using an xbox 360 as an extender is a winner as I like gaming too.

Built in radio support for FM and DVB radio.

In addition, from what I've seen of it the MCE interface is a lot nicer. I use SageMC (which you should definitely try if you haven't already) which I much prefer over the stock interface. Even so though, the MCE interface is very good and definitely a draw for me.

I keep on trying Mediaportal but lilkewise its always too unstable: also, it would need some sort of extender in my books to make it a contender. I get the feeling the project doesn' have enough developers. I know that in Frodo's last project (XBMC) development was much quicker as more people were interested.

[vvulture]

Originally Posted by Alfiegerner

I've been using Sage for about 2-3 years and it's been very good to us, don't let me put you off. You should definitely try out the MVP extender btw as a client, excellent bit of a kit, great picture quality and the same Sage UI from a tiny silent box.

I came to Sage through trying Myth, Beyond and Mediaportal - though I never tried MCE as I didn't have have an MCE OS disk. At the time, with the equipment I had, it was simply the only PVR software that could record shows on 2+ tuners at the same time reliably, everything else was very unstable.

Sage has been very good to us and its functionality is top notch, but like a lot of people I have a few holes that need to be plugged and MCE may be able to do it.

The things I'm looking to get from MCE that sage doesn't provide are:

A reliable UK EPG source that doesn't involve using 3rd party tools (and potentially may stop working).

A decent HD front end extender. Sage has plans to release one, but for me using an xbox 360 as an extender is a winner as I like gaming too.

Built in radio support for FM and DVB radio.

In addition, from what I've seen of it the MCE interface is a lot nicer. I use SageMC (which you should definitely try if you haven't already) which I much prefer over the stock interface. Even so though, the MCE interface is very good and definitely a draw for me.

I keep on trying Mediaportal but lilkewise its always too unstable: also, it would need some sort of extender in my books to make it a contender. I get the feeling the project doesn' have enough developers. I know that in Frodo's last project (XBMC) development was much quicker as more people were interested.

I guess if you don't need more than 2 tuners or network recording and so on, MCE will be fine for you. Very stable. Otherwise, MCE is way too restrictive.
Good luck with it.
As far as the MPV extenders are concerned, i could be wrong but it seems that they do not support DVI output which is a must for me. But i guess i could use one for the bedroom which runs on a standard 34cm TV.

cheers

[amg]

You would probably want SageTV Clients as Placeshifter will not allow playback of your DVD box sets.

[mohanman]

As a previous media center fan, I gotta tell you, Sagetv is like 100x better. You can do anything, and share tv/recorded files with other pcs, I love it! There are a few bugs but there are workarounds. Gotta use sagemc, it is the best. Very easy to use, multiple tuners, picture looks great. Lastly I gotta mention that going from MCE to Sagetv and using dvds and music, I swear the picture quality is much better and the sound is better despite using the same decoders.. weird.

Mo!