Why do you have your SageTV PC hooked to the TV?

[wvpolekat]

Originally Posted by jmiddleton

Some of us have true media center PC's using a large screen TV (or projector) as the monitor with SPDIF audio to a Dolby digital receiver. You need a wireless keyboard and mouse that will work from your easy chair (I use Gyration). My 52" DLP supports 1280x768 resolution and, with large fonts, it is perfectly legible for surfing or office applications from 10 feet away. If you enjoy gaming, try your favorite game on a large screen connected to a good home theatre sound system - you won't want to go back to sitting at a desk with a tiny 17" display and those little plastic speakers!

So, what makes it a "true media center PC"? Seems like a "true media center PC" would be one that does media (AKA movies, music, picutures) well and meets the users expectations, which to me, does not include surfing or office apps, access to these could certainly be handy but fall into the gee wiz category more than the must have.

Gaming is a possibility, but consoles have come a long way and many feel they are superior for gaming. They are certainly less hassle, thats for sure, no need to join the video card or driver of the month club to play the new games.

Once your goal becomes a PC that uses your TV/Projector and stereo instead of a traditional setup, you must start making compromises. Either in hardware or usage. Let's say you want to play a game while the wife wants to watch something. Someone will have to do without because your main PC is tied up with what the other one is doing. Gaming while recording could cause problems for one or the other, etc, etc.

Now, thats not to say that someone shouldn't do that, just that it has a fair share of drawbacks and limitations unless you live alone or something.

[jmiddleton]

By my definition, a true media center PC will act as the hub of a home entertainment system. If I want to be entertained by watching TV, it will do that. If I want to watch streaming video off the Internet, it will do that too. It must play music, my DVD library and my games. If my idea of entertainment includes Second Life or World of Warcraft, the system will be able to take me there. Likewise if I want to surf the Internet or correspond with friends using email or chat.

The media center doesn’t have to be your only PC – hardware is cheap and my local big box store is advertising a dual core media center PC for $499.99 this week (Canadian $ - South of the border they're usually much less expensive). The same store is advertising 52” DLP TV’s for $999.99 (also Canadian $) – less than half what I paid a year ago.

Now I'll admit that everyone's circumstances are going to be different but my concept of a true media center is viable for many readers of this forum and I highly recommend it where circumstances permit.

It’s also the reason why I plug my computer directly into the TV, which is where this thread started!

[lobosrul]

1) The obvious, HDTV.
2) The client PC didnt cost me that much, besides the case its mostly old parts.
3) Theres (probably) always going to be some feature that I want that no set top box offers.

[Trepidati0n]

For my High Def set I want...well High Def. Once Sage gets this up and running with the HD Extender I might be willing to switch to that. However, even if in the future when most of my TV's are HD, there will always be at least once HD item that will need all the bells and whistles that sage cannot support (especially HD DVD and Blu-Ray) as well as other HDCP type items.

[jhh]

Am I then the only one to use an xbox as a client?

For same price level or lower as an MVP you get a (used) XBOX which is fairly silent and with XBMC (XBOX media center) you get quite a lot of functionality and a DVD-drive for free.

In Europe it seems like the (older) MVP that I have has only composite video out enabled through SCART connector. No S-video - needless to say XBOX beats it by a long way when it comes to picture quality.

I use Coolwaves xbmc script from the forum here - picture, music and video library are from XBMC as well as weather forecast. Script developing community is almost as active as here

Jan

[stevech]

Originally Posted by tipstir

That's perfect, how large is your HDD?

I have 1 x 250GB and 1 x 320GB external USB2, non-RAID. On-sale disks. Formatted to 64K block size for big files. The Laptop outputs S-Video to the TV.
These disks are like black holes. No matter how much storage I've added, the videos pile up (procrastinated watching or keep for future), and they seem to hover at 80% full all the time. I pulled out one WD 250GB disk because it and an exact replacement both sounded like a dentist's drill - and PC Magazine had said "quietest drive ever" (BS).

I really worry that I have no backup in case of drive failure. With 500GB drives at $120 now, I could get one of those and use automatic file copy software like "SecondCopy" (which I use elsewhere) to dupe recordings at 2AM, or

Put Sage on a PC in the garage and feed composite or S-video + stereo audio over long wires to where the TV is. I already have a long RG6 75 ohm coax to a PC in the garage - despite the kind of coax and long length, the composite video quality is OK. I may notice a degradation from S-video that I have now, or

Put a RAID-1 server with 2x500GB drives in the garage and improve the laptop's LAN connection which is currently 802.11g at 54Mbps strong signal. Problem is there's no cat5e cable at the TV and it's a big project to do so, physically.

[sjrx0213]

The number one reason I went the SageTV route was support for a thin client, such as the MVP. I've only got SD TVs, so HD was never an issue.

I still had enough guts lying around to slap together a quiet PC, so now I've got both an MVP and a PC client. They both have their advantages and disadvantages.

From a strictly admin point of view, the MVP wins hands down. With SageTV 6.1, I'd have to say navigational performance is just about a wash between the MVP and PC client. The one place where having more CPU makes a noticeable difference is with Comskip. The MVP tends to pixelate the in and out points, as well as buffer a second or so of commercial. The PC client is amazingly smooth at handling the transitions.

At the moment, I lean toward the MVP in picture quality, but I'm sure if I threw down for a hardcore graphics card, the PC would do as well or better. I also much prefer the Hauppagge 45 button remote to the Streamzap.

For the price, the MVP rocks, and frankly, my whole PC client experiment was based on not spending more than the cost of another MVP.

--Steve

[jbarr]

-HD content
-Responsiveness

My understanding is that the MVP is pure SD meaning that on a 16x9 LCD HDTV, the image would either be stretched to fill the screen, or pillerboxed to retain the 4x3 format. In other words, the MVP will not produce "true" 16x9. Can someone please confirm this?

Our SageTV PC is connected to our 42" widescreen, and with it, I can watch HD content, DVD content (4x3 and 16x9 displaying at proper proportions), and SD 4x3 content. And the SageTV UI is always nicely formatted at 16x9.

We also have an SD TV in our bedroom that uses an MVP. The S-video hookup is great, and we NEVER get any stuttering on the MVP. The MVP is an EXCELLENT and inexpensive solution.

But that said, my only complaint about the MVP is its responsiveness. I'm using SageTV v6.1, but not the latest Java 1.6 version, so maybe that's the issue. But there is a DEFINITE difference between the responsiveness of the MVP vs. the SageTV PC. So much so that I hesitate putting a second MVP in our guest bedroom.

[tipstir]

Originally Posted by _matt_

Increasing the size of the TCP Receive Window? Is that what you mean? Can you explain this a little more please?

Here I've taken my posting and brought here...

I've gather some extra tools I've used thoughout the years and Registry add-ons you can apply any time.

TCP
LAN
WAN
Lanmanworkstation
Dnscache
Wireless
Internet Downloading
NIC Onboard Turn On

Enjoy..

Yes there is a password protection on the file: PWD: 2007

Download Tipstir_nic_tweaks.zip

I also use TCP Optimzer and by-the-way everything you need is included in the zip above.

Page1.


Page2


Doing the above I get these speeds:

Test#1


Test#2


Note: Qos is set to 0, not shown here but shown above set to 20 (default by XP)

So speed varies for downloading which is the first one and uploading which is the second one.

MediaMVP
Also tweaking MediaMVP if you use one, I found out if you get the DHCP Client Table has already setup Dymanic you could if your Router permits setup each MediaMVP as Static IP allowing each MVP to have it's own IP by mac address. I do this for one Wired MVP that I've made wireless using Buffalo Ethernet Wireless Converter a bridge as you call it. You might not have to do it this way, unless your Sagetv server can't connect to MediaMVP.

[_matt_]

Thanks for the information and the zip file.

[jbarr]

Wow!

I just installed the latest Java update (v1.6.0.10) and the MVP now FLIES compared to what it was under v1.4.2_11.

I'll now have to see how stability goes with everything else.

Really, the MVP is MUCH more responsive. If this checks out, I'll likely SERIOUSLY consider getting another one.

[popechild]

Originally Posted by Mahoney

I want one box in the living room - part of the point of Sage is not to have a stereo. One box, one remote. I expect the HTPC to be the stereo.

What are you using for sound card/speakers? I've looked at trying to do this just to not have to have a receiver in the living room along with the htpc, but I've never found any decent way to run "real" speakers through the htpc, and never found any computer-specific speakers that I deemed "real."

Are you limited to just whatever the best computer speakers you can find are, or is there a way to run a full surround setup with non-computer speakers directly from the htpc? (ie. Paradigm or similar type speakers)...

[tipstir]

Originally Posted by popechild

What are you using for sound card/speakers? I've looked at trying to do this just to not have to have a receiver in the living room along with the htpc, but I've never found any decent way to run "real" speakers through the htpc, and never found any computer-specific speakers that I deemed "real."

Are you limited to just whatever the best computer speakers you can find are, or is there a way to run a full surround setup with non-computer speakers directly from the htpc? (ie. Paradigm or similar type speakers)...

These look cheap but they offer a lot more than the rest. I use them as computer surround they have DPII Dolby Pro Logic II, 100watt 6inch Sub and 5 SAT with 4" Woofer only cost me $39 buck.. I got the system back in 2003 and it still works great! You can connect 3 PCs to the unit control by wireless remote.

I have HT-391



http://www.lenoxx.com/2005/audiosystems/hometheater.htm

[tipstir]

Originally Posted by stevech

I have 1 x 250GB and 1 x 320GB external USB2, non-RAID. On-sale disks. Formatted to 64K block size for big files. The Laptop outputs S-Video to the TV.
These disks are like black holes. No matter how much storage I've added, the videos pile up (procrastinated watching or keep for future), and they seem to hover at 80% full all the time. I pulled out one WD 250GB disk because it and an exact replacement both sounded like a dentist's drill - and PC Magazine had said "quietest drive ever" (BS).

I really worry that I have no backup in case of drive failure. With 500GB drives at $120 now, I could get one of those and use automatic file copy software like "SecondCopy" (which I use elsewhere) to dupe recordings at 2AM, or

Put Sage on a PC in the garage and feed composite or S-video + stereo audio over long wires to where the TV is. I already have a long RG6 75 ohm coax to a PC in the garage - despite the kind of coax and long length, the composite video quality is OK. I may notice a degradation from S-video that I have now, or

Put a RAID-1 server with 2x500GB drives in the garage and improve the laptop's LAN connection which is currently 802.11g at 54Mbps strong signal. Problem is there's no cat5e cable at the TV and it's a big project to do so, physically.

Instead of using CAT5e, for my kitchen dinning room I am using this on wired MediaMVP which now 100% wireless..

click on image to make it bigger.. I use 2 more Buffalo Routers/Access Points set to 100% power, signal is Excellent on both floors.



I did ran 50FT + 50FT of Composite Video with Analog Stereo Audio. If you hooked that into Radio Shack 4-way : PQ was very good for composite S-vidoe slightly higher but not by much.



This has gone up it use to be $39 bucks.. I had use the below near the PC when the 100FT composite video was connect to it I was able to use S-Video by converting the composit video it works..


Four-way distrubtion.
This amplifier provides one S-video input and four S-video outputs. It also converts composite video input to S-video outputs. The 4 Way AV Distribution Amplifier connects up to four VCRs or TVs to the line-level stereo audio/video output-RCA jacks of one VCR. Ideal for multi VCR dubbing setups.


Distribute the signal to up to 4 different devices/locations
Changes composite (yellow) video signal to higher quality S-video signal
Distribute S-video signal to up to four different locations
Connect to your existing equipment with ease

What's in the box

4 Way Distribution amplifier
AC adapter
Mounting screws (2)
Owner's manual

See how my old setup was below

[autoboy]

Originally Posted by popechild

What are you using for sound card/speakers? I've looked at trying to do this just to not have to have a receiver in the living room along with the htpc, but I've never found any decent way to run "real" speakers through the htpc, and never found any computer-specific speakers that I deemed "real."

Are you limited to just whatever the best computer speakers you can find are, or is there a way to run a full surround setup with non-computer speakers directly from the htpc? (ie. Paradigm or similar type speakers)...

You can run the analog outputs from you sound card directly into a 5 or 7 way amp like this one. http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/a.../emotiva-mps-1

This should be able to power any speakers you want.

[FidgetyRat]

I use both the PC client and MVPs.

My server is a smaller case, similar to the XPC cases, but capable of taking a standard mATX board. Oddly, it fits perfectly on the side tower of my entertainment center.

I originally had just the server, so paired up with the PureVideo decoders and a cheap geforce FX5200, I was able to get near hardware decoding straight to the TV before MVPs existed. I also find that using the NVIDIA pair produces better (controllable) picture quality versus the MVP. Along those lines, I can also adjust any sound EQ settings on the PC, something you cannot do with the MVP.

Since this is the absolute main box in the house, the more control the better.

I later purchased MVPs for the smaller TVs around the house. I do to this day still use the server AS a client, mainly because of functionality.

1) The server is there, its got a large 20x4 LCD that I use to display recording info and such. So putting it in a closet doesn't make much sense. I also want my PVR directly by the household cable input for maximum signal quality. Which for me is the living room.

2) I use it for game emulators.

3) MVP STILL cannot do web radio. Which for me is an absolute must.


Really, thats about it. Since I already have a very quiet server running in the living room, doesn't make much sense to have an MVP right next to it.


As far as tertiary TVs are concerned. MVP is the way to go. I got so annoyed having to update PC clients to match server software, constant problems, tinkering. Hell, even a 1.4 gig machine sucked compared to the MVP.

[tipstir]

Originally Posted by _matt_

Increasing the size of the TCP Receive Window? Is that what you mean? Can you explain this a little more please?

That's more for bandwidth on the Internet based on what your ISP has rated your downloads to be. I have my set to 16000.

Dnscache would settings if you use TCP Optimizer and I've posted here:

[tipstir]

Originally Posted by FidgetyRat

I use both the PC client and MVPs.

My server is a smaller case, similar to the XPC cases, but capable of taking a standard mATX board. Oddly, it fits perfectly on the side tower of my entertainment center.

I originally had just the server, so paired up with the PureVideo decoders and a cheap geforce FX5200, I was able to get near hardware decoding straight to the TV before MVPs existed. I also find that using the NVIDIA pair produces better (controllable) picture quality versus the MVP. Along those lines, I can also adjust any sound EQ settings on the PC, something you cannot do with the MVP.

Since this is the absolute main box in the house, the more control the better.

I later purchased MVPs for the smaller TVs around the house. I do to this day still use the server AS a client, mainly because of functionality.

1) The server is there, its got a large 20x4 LCD that I use to display recording info and such. So putting it in a closet doesn't make much sense. I also want my PVR directly by the household cable input for maximum signal quality. Which for me is the living room.

2) I use it for game emulators.

3) MVP STILL cannot do web radio. Which for me is an absolute must.


Really, thats about it. Since I already have a very quiet server running in the living room, doesn't make much sense to have an MVP right next to it.


As far as tertiary TVs are concerned. MVP is the way to go. I got so annoyed having to update PC clients to match server software, constant problems, tinkering. Hell, even a 1.4 gig machine sucked compared to the MVP.

SAGETV can't do Web Radio? HAU software can for MediaMVP

[wvpolekat]

Originally Posted by tipstir

That's more for bandwidth on the Internet based on what your ISP has rated your downloads to be. I have my set to 16000.

Dnscache would settings if you use TCP Optimizer and I've posted here:

All this TCP optimization stuff is snake oil. They all work under the premise that MS intentionally crippled the network. The only thing they have done that comes anywhere near that is the limit on "half open" TCP connections. The classic example given is the QoS settings, which are there, but not active by default, so changing them does nothing.

I have had no less than 5 broadband ISPs from Cable to DSL to Sattelite, and I can max each of them out with the default settings. At the same time, I can max out my LAN bandwidth as well with the same settings. The only settings I have seen make a difference is to use traffic shaping to keep me from saturating the upload which causes the download to slow to a crawl because the delay it causes in SYN/ACK.

[lobosrul]

Originally Posted by jbarr

My understanding is that the MVP is pure SD meaning that on a 16x9 LCD HDTV, the image would either be stretched to fill the screen, or pillerboxed to retain the 4x3 format. In other words, the MVP will not produce "true" 16x9. Can someone please confirm this?

I didnt see this answered anywhere, so I'll take a crack at it, even though I dont have an MVP.

The MVP has a maximum resoltion of 720x480, thats the same as a DVD. HD channels are transcoded on the server and scaled down to 720x480. Even though 720x480 is only 3:2, all information is kept. It just needs to be stretched at the playback device. Thats just like an anamorphic DVD.

Since Sage can stretch or crop a signal to any custom setting you want, then there has to be a way to view HD signals from the server to a widescreen TV.

If your on an SD channel and want a widescreen picture, it will either be cropped or stretched. Unless of course its letterboxed, for those channels you would want to set the Height and Width settings to about 117%.

EDIT: when I say stretched, I mean back from 3:2 to 16:9. This will look normal (ie peoples heads wont look fat).