Watching 1080i

[eded9698]

I'm having a problem watching 1080i TV stations(CW, NBC)in sagetv 6.0. The others are OK, but not perfect. The shows are very jittery and there is an audio sync problem. My computer is up to date with driver and software and the equipment is more than adequate(amd 64 3200, nvidia 7600, 1.5gb memory, hard drive for video 64k, dvi to tv 1080p).

[Thomas Wischgol]

I also run my system at 1080p and had some trouble getting it "stutter-free". Are you using VMR9 with FSE enabled? Are you using PureVideo? If so, make sure it is enabled. You mentioned that you are using an Nvidia 7600. Is it a GS or GT? I had a BFG 7600GS which did not seem to have enough juice in my system (I also use an AMD64 3200+). Particularly, the memory was too slow (running at only 250 MHz). After replacing it with a Gigabyte 7600GS with memory running at 400 MHz, things got significantly better. After overclocking the graphic card slightly, the stuttering was gone.

[eded9698]

My problem seems to be worse when using VMR9. I have a XFX 7600GS and the nvidia that comes with Theatertek. I assume the 400 MHz speed you speak of is the memory speed. I haven't check my speed.

[eded9698]

Are there any recommend requirements for hardware and software to play HD station on a HD TV. Sagetv seems to be a very good product but has its problems. For one, to get video to play I have to use a third party driver. Sage's default driver kills the cpu. Second, HD doesn't play a well as SD. After searching the forum, I find that I am not the only one with these problems.

[Thomas Wischgol]

Yes, there are several threads about stuttering issues in SageTV. The suggested solutions in these threads do not really agree, unfortunately. Therefore, it requires some trial and error. Many prefer VMR9 for its better image quality. It requires a little more performance of the graphic hardware compared to overlay. I am using VMR9 as well. I would recommend to use the NVidia PureVideo decoder for video. It is often recommended to use a different decoder for audio because some people complain about stuttering when using NVidia's decoder for both (this also means that you can go for the cheapest PureVideo decoder since the more expensive ones support AC3 etc. but do not improve on the video part). Some people recommend to set PureVideo as the default decoder in Windows and set SageTV to default to use this decoder. In my setting, I selected PureVideo directly in Sage (which some other people recommend to do). I assume, you already formated your video disks with 64k clusters. Then, you should make sure that there are no other processes running that require the CPU. If you want to overclock your graphic card a little you can install CoolBits (which are just some registry entries, just google for it). Then you can change the clock rates within the NVidia settings. This way, you can also check for your current clock rates. I was referring to the memory clock rate (400 MHz). According to XFX website, there are several NVidia 7600GS available with memory clock rates of 350, 400, and 530 MHz.

[lobosrul]

About Purevideo:


Great for video. But for audio it will not work with anything but WMP. If you need AC3 5.1 audio decoding you need to use AC3 filter. Sage's decoder doesnt do a good job with 5.1 audio. Apparently Purevideo will do passthru however.

[Muchacho]

I use a 6600GT and have only been able to get smooth playback on 1080i recordings using the older drivers (84.25). Using the newer drivers, I think the image quality is better, but I get stuttering... I think it has something to do with the newer drivers doing a different type of hardware deinterlacing.

It would be worth a try to see if it helps for you.

[geogecko]

My system is using a AMD 3000+, ASUS 6600GT, with 1GB of ram, and I rarely, if ever, get stuttering now. That is, on a 1080i show, being displayed on a 1080p screen.

Now, granted, there can sometimes be artifacts during high speed motion, and I think this might be a limitation to the 6600GT, not sure, but I would not call it stuttering at all.

I am also running the nVidia Purevideo decoders.

My stuttering problem with all HD shows, was related to IRQ conflicts with the FusionHDTV cards in the system. As soon as I pulled them out, and bought USB Fusions, all my problems went away. FWIW, I didn't have the stuttering problem until adding the second Fusion PCI card. When the Fusion PCI cards were on the same IRQ as the graphics card, that is when I had problems.

I'm running the latest video card drivers, as well as the latest SageTV...

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[evilpenguin]

I'm running with...

• AMD64 3200+
• 512mb PC3200 DDR
• GF6600
• 1080p via DVI

And my 720p looks fantastic and my 1080i stutters just enough to be annoying.

[geogecko]

LOL. Is that a 6600, or a 6600GT? That might explain part of it...

[camus]

I am running what is in my sigline, a 7600GS too.

I was having some stuttering with 1080i with VMR9 if I didn't open Sage straight into FSE.

With the most recent version I can go out of FSE to Sage windowed and then then back into FSE while 1080i is playing without stuttering. Nice.

In the 6.0.14-15 I had to pause a second or two or 1080i would stutter, than is gone as well. This going to out to the TV at 720p.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by geogecko

LOL. Is that a 6600, or a 6600GT? That might explain part of it...

Do you feel that a 6600GT isn't up to the task?

Andy.

[geogecko]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Do you feel that a 6600GT isn't up to the task?

Andy.

No, I think a 6600GT should have enough horses in it to run correctly, but I'm not sure a regular 6600 (non-GT) would be able to handle it.

I think the 6600GT is probably the bare minimum for 1080p output, especially if the video source is 1080i.

I'm thinking of upgrading to a 7600GT or similar (might wait for the HDCP to settle out first), because I think the motion problem I have once in a while, may be related to the 6600GT not being able to render fast enough, or something, but I'm just guessing.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by geogecko

LOL. Is that a 6600, or a 6600GT? That might explain part of it...

Only a 6600 unfortunately, Had I known I was gonna go 1080p I would have gotten something a little beefier. Although, I must say the 6600 holds its own surprisingly well... at least well until 1080i does any type of fast camera panning.

[Polypro]

You can head over to AVS and search for "Judder Test". Install Powerstrip and run JT to see if your display has a problem at 60Hz, you may need to tweak the refresh rate. If JT is smooth at 60Hz, then I'd look at the PCI bus. When I went from a Fusion5 PCI, to the HDHR, my 1080i is smooth as silk...6600GT is fine.

P

[eded9698]

Did some checking on Nvidia web site and found that 7600GS and below video cards do not support Inverse Telecine. From what I've found, the networks that broadcast in 1080i need Inverse Telecine supported by the card to play the video stutter free. That is why 720p plays fine. Here is the link that shows what is supported. http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

[camus]

Originally Posted by eded9698

Did some checking on Nvidia web site and found that 7600GS and below video cards do not support Inverse Telecine. From what I've found, the networks that broadcast in 1080i need Inverse Telecine supported by the card to play the video stutter free. That is why 720p plays fine. Here is the link that shows what is supported. http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html

I don't think that is true being as I don't use it and play 1080i just fine.

[blade]

Originally Posted by camus

I don't think that is true being as I don't use it and play 1080i just fine.

It's not true.

1080i is just more demanding than 720p. Even playing back upscaled SD without FSE it's obvious that 1080i is much more difficult for the Nvidia cards than 720p.

Also you can't go by the Nvidia chart in that link or from anywhere else for that matter. According to the chart the 6200s don't do IVTC or Bad Edit Detection for SD. I've never seen where anyone has tested it, but with older drivers Bad Edit Detection and IVTC did not work for SD content on the 6200 cards. With recent drivers it does. I know from first hand experience it works despite what the chart says. Also some of the hardware acceleration features of the 6xxx series of agp cards only work if you have a SSE3 capable cpu (at least that was the case the last time I checked). Of course I've never seen any disclaimers from Nvidia informing consumers of this. So basically Nvidia's list of features for each card doesn't always mean much.

[geogecko]

Yeah, I don't think it's true either.

Any 1080i content I display, is stutter free. Now, sometimes I get a case of the blockies, but that usually seems to happen during quick movement...

[blade]

Now I have read that there can be a slight stutter associated with telecined shows, but I've never been able to notice it myself. The problem with the original statement is that just because it's 1080i doesn't mean it needs or will have IVTC applied to it.

I don't doubt someone might suffer stuttering and turn on IVTC and have the problem go away. For example I have a 6200 and it has no problems playing back 1080 film content at 24 fps. Something is wrong though because with video content it can only muster 42-44 fps instead of the full 60fps. I say something is wrong because sometimes the card can do the full 60 fps with ease playing the exact same clips it usually struggles with.

Now if the content is flagged incorrectly and is actually film instead of video using bad edit detection would apply IVTC and it would then be played back smoothly at 24 fps instead of treating it as video and jerking around at 42-44fps.

The thing is if everything is working correctly you should be able to get smooth playback at 1080i even if the content is being treated as video. It's just more demanding on the video card.