What to upgrade to fix stutter?

[KarylFStein]

I have stuttering / jerky playback issues with OTA HDTV captured with an AverMedia A180 card. If I toggle out of full screen mode (not FSE), the video is fluid. DVD playback in full screen mode (again, not FSE), is smooth. I only have problems with the HDTV signal.

Does this sound like a hardware issue? Since playback is smooth when the window size is smaller, it doesn't seem like a hard drive issue. But, I'm not sure how to target if and what else could be to blame.

My monitor is a Westinghouse LCD running at 1080P and my video card is a Gigabyte GV-N66T128VP (nVidia 6600GT AGP with 128M RAM). I'm running a 2.26GHz Intel CPU and have 512M RAM running Windows Pro SP2. I don't mind upgrading something, but I don't want to spend money on something that won't fix my problems. Any ideas what to target?

[GKusnick]

Task Manager should give you an idea of whether you're maxing out your CPU or network. Performance Monitor (under Administrative Tools) has loads of options for measuring CPU, disk, and memory usage. That's probably the best way to figure out if you have some sort of hardware bottleneck.

[KarylFStein]

My CPU seems to peak around 75% in full screen (45% in a smaller window). Disk and memory usage seem pretty low. I don't see any metrics for video. Since the CPU, disk, and memory don't seem stressed, is it a good bet that the video card could use an upgrade?

[SHS]

Just need more CPU power when come HDTV which also need more power at full screen then window mode after all it nodiff then old with lowend CPU and DVD Play back.

[geogecko]

I'm having stuttering problems with the 6600GT and the 1080p Westinghouse as well. Only with HD though, DVD, SDTV are both fine. It doesn't appear to matter if I'm in Overlay, VMR9, with or without FSE.

I'm beginning to think that the 6600GT just doesn't have the power to do 1080p. Yes, 1080i, but not 1080p.

Oh, that's with an AMD Athlon 64 3000+ chip, and 1GB DDR.

[stevech]

does the term "stuttering" mean dropped frames?

[KarylFStein]

I'm not sure. It's jerky motion. Like during a smooth pan, the picture will seem to freeze for a fraction of a second. This happens maybe once a second. So, I guess that could be a dropped frame.

[geogecko]

Mines more like, the video stops (pauses) altogether, for between 1 and 5 seconds, while the audio goes on, problem free.

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by SHS

Just need more CPU power when come HDTV which also need more power at full screen then window mode after all it nodiff then old with lowend CPU and DVD Play back.

What speed CPU is recommended for smooth HDTV playback? I have a socket 478 motherboard and can go up to a 3.4GHz.

[SHS]

As fast you can get that all I can tell you.
It would be nice if we could buy REAL Hardware Decoder card or thoses lazy butt video maker got off there butt and make real performance hardware decoder add-on device or build in graphics chipset.
I'm pettey that Sigma Design would have come out with new Hradware Decoder card but it dosen't help when there so must BS encryption regulations no thank to MPPA and RIAA and I'm sure other most likey the one doing it.
There is a ver rigth here http://gctglobal.com/ at buttom of the page EM8621L PCI decoder but there no windows drivers and it only run under a custom ver of linux.

[KarylFStein]

From what I've read, the 3.4GHz with Northwood core is probably better than the Prescott for a HTPC because it actually runs cooler (and it's much cheaper). The Prescott has SSE3, but I don't know if that buys me anything. I'm only using SageTV with the nVidia PureVideo decoders, (no other processor like ffdshow). I don't see anything that says they make use of SSE3 instructions. Will SSE3 help with HDTV playback at all?

I won't even get started on the whole DRM topic other than say I think it's slowing things down for us early adopters that play within the rules. I have a 1080p panel that is supposed to support HDCP, but would have to get an all new HTPC if I ever want to play HD-DVD / BlueRay media. Just getting a drive won't work because I would need a new video card, which would require a new MB, CPU, etc. (unless someone releases an AGP video card that outputs an HDCP signal on a DVI interface...)

[bcjenkins]

I noticed a huge improvement in HD stuttering when I got rid of my SIL3114 Raid 0. Also, are you using 64K clusters?

B

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by KarylFStein

I have a 1080p panel that is supposed to support HDCP, but would have to get an all new HTPC if I ever want to play HD-DVD / BlueRay media. Just getting a drive won't work because I would need a new video card, which would require a new MB, CPU, etc. (unless someone releases an AGP video card that outputs an HDCP signal on a DVI interface...)

Sounds like I have the same display, video card and stuttering problems. Overlay has helped for me, also look for the GPU over clocking tweak called "cool bits". Anyway, I have resigned to believe that I just don't have the hardware for HDTV in perfect quality, especially in VMR9. Unfortunately, to get into the modern era it means new mother board, cpu, ram and graphics card.

I have been waiting for the new Intel Core Duo (Conroe) based chips to hit the market. It appears that they are going to out perform the current AMD offerings in many different ways including price. For video I’m looking at the 7600GT PCIe x16 because you can get it with a passive cooling design. However, I am also trying to hold out for an HDCP compliant graphics card over DVI. My particular display doesn’t have HDMI.

Anyway, the bottom line is that you are probably going to have to spend your way out of this problem, and unfortunately AGP is a dieing technology. That means new motherboard, which probably means new CPU etc.

Have fun, We just bought a house so I get to wait to build a new HTPC. I will need to buy things like lawn mowers, ladders and kitchen cabinets before I can focus money on liesure items again.

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

I noticed a huge improvement in HD stuttering when I got rid of my SIL3114 Raid 0. Also, are you using 64K clusters?

B

Here's the current state of the rig. I've been building it for a couple years now. I only have SATA hard drives and no RAID. The video drive is dedicated to SageTV and has a single partition with a 64K cluster size.

Hardware

MB: AOpen AX4SPE Max II (Intel 865PE)
CPU: 2.26GHz/512K/533 Intel 478 pin Northwood core
Cooler: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu (slow setting)
RAM: 2x256MB PC2100 DDR Kingston Value RAM (CL2.5)
Video: Gigabyte GV-N66T128VP AGP8x 128M DDR3 (GeForce 6600GT)
Monitor: Westinghouse LVM-37w1
DVI Cable: RAM Electronics Dual Link DVI-D 12ft
DVD: Pioneer DVR-A08XLB
HD0: Samsung SP0812C 80G with 8MB cache for OS (SATA)
HD1: Maxtor 6B250S0 250G with 16MB cache for video (SATA, 64K clusters)
Tuner0: Haupauge 500MCE for analog cable
Tuner1: AVerMedia AVerTVHD MCE A180
Antenna: Antennas Direct DB2 UHF HDTV Antenna (attic mount)
Remote: Niveus Media (X10) RF
Keyboard: Interlink Versapoint RF
Audio: Built-in AC'97
Speakers: Logitech Z-5500 5.1 (connected via analog cables so PC can control volume)
Enclosure: Antec SLK3700-BQE 350W (still waiting for the killer HTPC case)


Software

AC3Filter 0.70b + fix
Adobe Premiere Elements 2.0 (DVD authoring from DV camera)
DirMon2 0.5.8 (to run ShowAnalyzer)
Google Video Player (plugin anyone?)
Java 2 Runtime Environment SE 1.4.2_11 (packaged with SageTV)
Niveus PC Remote Control
Nvidia Drivers 84.21
Nvidia PureVideo Decoder 1.02-196
SageTV 5.0.4
Plugins: comskip_playback, dynamic_menus, nielm-exit-sage, FMRadio, webserver
ShowAnalyzer 0.7.5
Windows XP Professional SP2
Yahoo! Music Engine


On Order

Creative Audigy 2 ZS in order to get hardware DD and DTS decoding
VBox D-150 to try and get better HDTV signal on a couple channels

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

Sounds like I have the same display, video card and stuttering problems. Overlay has helped for me, also look for the GPU over clocking tweak called "cool bits". Anyway, I have resigned to believe that I just don't have the hardware for HDTV in perfect quality, especially in VMR9. Unfortunately, to get into the modern era it means new mother board, cpu, ram and graphics card.

I had to go Overlay because my DVD menus wouldn't work correctly with VMR9. I really don't notice a difference in performace between VMR9 and Overlay.

We just bought a new house too, so I can't spend much on this rig. I've already spent way more than I should on it. It's almost an addiction. There always seems to be just one more thing that prevents it from being "finished." If I could fix this HDTV issue, I think that would be the end of it .

[geogecko]

Have fun, We just bought a house so I get to wait to build a new HTPC. I will need to buy things like lawn mowers, ladders and kitchen cabinets before I can focus money on liesure items again.

We bought our house back around this time 2 years ago, and I know what you mean. By the time you are 3-4 months into it, you've spent a significant amount of money, especially if you don't have a good mower, refrigerator, weed trimmer, bike, ladder, tools, HTPC, "decorating" stuff, sprayer, HDTV... =)

After about 2 years, I think I can finally say that I've got most of the frequently needed equipment, and just pick up odds and ends when I need them. Have fun with it, it's so much nicer knowing you can run Ethernet wires behind the walls and what not, instead of running them across the floor, or trying wireless (oh, that's fun).

I'm in the same boat as you are, in regards to HDTV, and we've already talked about it. I just assumed, as well as everyone giving me system build advice, that a 6600GT and an AMD 3000+ would be able to handle 1080p. I've found out that I can use a 7600GT in my case, with an adapter for cooling, but I think I'm going to wait a few more months, until we see what happens with HDCP, since I think the LVM-37w3 does at least support that.

[Humanzee]

oh, ya, and paint and cable and networking equipment and furniture and appliances and flooring and faucets and counter tops and lighting and landscaping and maybe if I am lucky, a dog. Then there is our anniversary and her birthday then its the holiday season again. Sheesh. I guess I should update my resume and look for a better paying job. THEN its time to build a proper home theater!!! YAAAA Oh, wait, I forgot about the automobile maintenance.

At least I already have one of those crazy flexible drill bits thats about 4 feet long so I can run cable through the walls. One thing down anyway. I think I'm going to need a pick-up truck.

[geogecko]

LOL, I got the pickup truck last year. Can't go wrong there. I'd recommend the Tacoma when looking. The 4.0L V6 has a lot more pickup than the 3.5L from 2004 and back.

[KarylFStein]

I have this working now. Unfortunately, I don't know what fixed it. I rebuilt the entire system from scratch (formatted the OS and everything). I did not add any new hardware, but I did rearrange the cards in the case a little. I also disabled some things in the BIOS that I was not using, (second PATA port, firewire, etc.) I can't say if this removed some cruft that was causing me problems, or if the newer video drivers helped, (I went from an 81.xx series to the current 91.31 one). All the other drivers and software remained at the same version. (I am running 1.02-196 of the PureVideo decoders.)

Anyway, the local PBS channel that I've been using as my test as it has always been jerky is now smooth and clear. At least it has been for a day now and I have watched some 1080i show snippets in full-screen.

I have SageTV set to "Default" for all the decoders, etc. I have the aspect ratio set to 16x9. I set the nVidia decoders to "Automatic" deinterlace mode and did not change any of the other defaults. I also set the audio to S/PDIF to receiver. All of this is the same as before.

I can't explain it, but I can say that this video card and software combination CAN do it right. I have an Intel 2.26GHz processor and recently put in an Audigy 2ZS in order to do hardware decoding of Dolby Digital and DTS. A 3.4GHz CPU is supposed to arrive this week, which I ordered to try and fix this. Oh well, I guess it's good to have a little spare CPU for the future even though I'm not supposed to add or upgrade anything on this system anymore...