Wired 'Future of PVRs' article quotes Mike@Sage on DRM...

[nielm]

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70328-0.html
Page 2:

Even Mike Machado, the CEO of SageTV, admits his company's software, which currently records television into the unlocked MPEG2 format, will have to make concessions to get access to encrypted cable HDTV.

"We are trying to give consumer all the freedom they can get, but when it comes to accessing content that the studios and content industry are very cautious about, we'll have to incorporate some rights management," Machado says. "Hopefully those industries will work on easy-to-use, affordable services that give you good value. It's hard to tell; it's their choice, it's their content."

(uh-oh...)

[stanger89]

Not really a surprise, I expected as much. If Sage were to take the idealistic road and maintain itself "DRM-free", then it would be locked out of Digital Cable and DirecTV, and would likely lose a number of current/potential users to solutions that could support said content.

[korben_dallas]

Mike Machado?

[malore]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

Mike Machado?

My thoughts exactly.


The article was OK, but I don't think I agree that TiVo or Windows Media Center offers any type future proofing.

[mlbdude]

Mike has been with Sage for awhile now. Did you guys think it was still just Jeff and Dan?

Here is an earlier forum post with Mike's name mentioned.

http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...hlight=Machado

[malore]

Originally Posted by mlbdude

Did you guys think it was still just Jeff and Dan?

No, but unless he has a cat avatar he is dead to me.

[mlbdude]

Originally Posted by malore

No, but unless he has a cat avatar he is dead to me.

[teknubic]

Link-ee-loo

Even Mike Machado, the CEO of SageTV, admits his company's software, which currently records television into the unlocked MPEG2 format, will have to make concessions to get access to encrypted cable HDTV.

* merged *

[teknubic]

Oops. I didn't realize there was already a topic for this (thanks, Andy).
So what's interesting about the article to me is that with the restrictions being imposed on PVR systems, the providers are essentially killing the technology. Sure, you can still record to special, locked into compliance devices but if they have control over how long it stays there, whether you can fast forward through commercials and what the content can be copied to, why would anyone want one?

[aperry]

Originally Posted by malore

No, but unless he has a cat avatar he is dead to me.

Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by teknubic

So what's interesting about the article to me is that with the restrictions being imposed on PVR systems, the providers are essentially killing the technology. Sure, you can still record to special, locked into compliance devices but if they have control over how long it stays there, whether you can fast forward through commercials and what the content can be copied to, why would anyone want one?

I think that if they try to prevent us from skipping commercials they'll find themselves in a class action lawsuit. Same thing goes for trying to tell us how long we are able to archive a show for.

What they should do is advise their advertisers to wise up like KFC has. Apparently with an ad that KFC is running now you see some sort of hidden message/ad while fast forwarding through it - Now that's smarts for ya!

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

Apparently with an ad that KFC is running now

... for a second there, I thought you were going to mention the KFC ad misprint I saw on a recent daily calendar: "Try out new zesty owl". It is all part of the new Kentucky Fried Creature menu.

Anyway, I thought someone was doing ads where there was a message if you played it slowly. Sometimes I feel like I'm a bit cut off from society with my lack of commercial viewing... I keep missing some pop-culture references that people make about current ads.

- Andy

[dbfresh23]

Actually you are right, It's playing in slow motion - not fast forwarding.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/24/kfcsecret.ap/

Though I can't imagine it would be too hard to do something similar with fast forwarding. Can't say that I see many commercials anymore anyway thanks to ShowAnalyzer.

[mayamaniac]

http://www.wired.com/news/technology...ory_page_next1

Dave Gruska built a PVR to give to his wife as a unique Christmas present and is now sharpening his .NET skills by building a "Sports Score" plug-in for GBPVR.

Aaron Brassard built his homebrew unit after finding out that the birth of his child made him miss his favorite TV shows, and diaper costs put TiVo out of his reach. Now he has 10 hours of Thomas & Friends to entertain his son.

But the entertainment industry hates Brassard's little boy. Probably all children, really. Puppies, too.

How else to explain the dark cloud on the homebrew PVR horizon: the so-called digital rights management schemes that aim to control how consumers use audio and video content.

DRM includes technology like Apple's FairPlay (which prevents devices other than Apple's own from playing an iTunes song) and encrypted high-definition channels like ESPN's that can't be recorded in high resolution, unless it's by a device that has been approved by a cable TV consortium.

The movie and music industries say DRM is necessary to curb piracy of digital copies of movies and music. But DRM tends to be finicky, and perfectly legal uses of content, such as making a backup copy of a DVD, ripping a CD to MP3s, or extracting video snippets to create a parody or commentary, all become collateral damage.

For the home brewer, this means their solution won't work if they upgrade to high-definition cable, because the cable box won't send a readable signal to any tuner card that isn't part of a locked-down environment, such as TiVo or Windows Media Center.

You could always unplug your cable box and record free HDTV off the public airwaves, but perhaps not for long. The industry is trying to get Congress to make it illegal to build TV tuners that record broadcast HDTV without including DRM on the recording.

That means the only option for a future-proof PVR is to use something like TiVo, Windows Media Center or a cable company-provided recorder, which may or may not think your mp3 player or your second television is secure enough to access your own media.

Even Mike Machado, the CEO of SageTV, admits his company's software, which currently records television into the unlocked MPEG2 format, will have to make concessions to get access to encrypted cable HDTV.

"We are trying to give consumer all the freedom they can get, but when it comes to accessing content that the studios and content industry are very cautious about, we'll have to incorporate some rights management," Machado says. "Hopefully those industries will work on easy-to-use, affordable services that give you good value. It's hard to tell; it's their choice, it's their content."

Do-it-yourselfers are already feeling the pinch. Website administrator Joe Cancilla built his MythTV machine years ago. But now, his shared apartment in San Francisco sports a Comcast PVR so he can record high-definition cable shows from HBO. Now he uses his old MythTV box as a music server.

"I really get upset that you can’t do what you want with what you record," Cancilla says.

Cancilla isn't trying to share HBO's programming on eDonkey -- he just wants to watch it on a portable video player while working out on his gym's elliptical trainer. He's now resigned to trying to get MythTV to record a degraded analog signal through a FireWire port that cable companies are supposed to, but often don't, make available on their digital boxes.

It's a cruel time to be a digital couch potato. Just as homebrew PVRs slide into everybody's reach, their future usefulness is shrouded in uncertainty.

But there's always a chance that if enough people build their own media masters and refuse to play the DRM game, mounting political and market pressure will prevent cable companies, online music retailers and movie studios from treating everyone like criminals.

And maybe then, Joe Cancilla won't have to struggle to watch Six Feet Under with his two feet on the trainer.

Maybe this is why Tivo is trying to cash in with their new pricing scheme while they still can. Looks like fair use is gone as DRM is deployed. So folks, enjoy SageTV for the short life it has left that is still DRM-free. Showshifter may have some company soon.

[nielm]

dup^2

[nielm]

Originally Posted by malore

I don't think I agree that TiVo or Windows Media Center offers any type future proofing.

Me neither... While the software will be upgraded to support the DRM, the hardware will not. (eg needing to have a 'Protected Media Path' capture card/tuner, motherboard, graphics card, and possibly, display device, etc...)
I guess the future proofing is therefore only needing to buy the upgrade to MCE-Vista

[glbrown]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

[So folks, enjoy SageTV for the short life it has left that is still DRM-free.

Please help me understand something here. As long as the sat and cable companies sell boxes with coax, s-video or composite outputs to connect that box to my TV, there isn't any DRM. Sage is just another TV as far as I can tell and if I can see it on my TV then Sage can see it too.

I admit I am an idiot but what I understand about this 'digital TV revolution' that's coming is that all of the transmitted signals become digital. My Dish receivers are already receiving digital signals and they get converted to s-video and displayed on my tv. The DRM decoding resides on the receiver, not in the TV. As long as the receiver, whatever it becomes, can hook up to a TV, Sage can hook up too. Is there a huge change in this existing infrastructure that I have overlooked? I understand that I will miss out on all that HD programming but I am old and decrepit so the quality of SDTV still amazes me and I am satisfied and entertained without HD.

Did I miss a meeting or a memo?

[src666]

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

Though I can't imagine it would be too hard to do something similar with fast forwarding. Can't say that I see many commercials anymore anyway thanks to ShowAnalyzer.

Hiding stuff so that it shows up during Fast forward is MUCH MUCH harder (bordering on impossible). Remember, when you fast forward on a DVR, frames are thrown away, and the advertiser has no idea which frames will be tossed and which will be displayed.

[Gog]

Originally Posted by glbrown

I understand that I will miss out on all that HD programming but I am old and decrepit so the quality of SDTV still amazes me and I am satisfied and entertained without HD.

I'm pretty much with you there. HDTV is nice but I can live with SDTV and I only use the big screen for movies.

The problem is that SDTV is not here to stay. Once plain old TV channels get kicked off the air I see cable TV going all HD within 5 years and during that time less and less interresting programming will be available is SDTV.

A lot of things can happen in 8 years. My PVR will go through a few incarnations but it looks like we might be locked out of TV within a decade.

Gog

[DFranch]

Originally Posted by nielm

I guess the future proofing is therefore only needing to buy the upgrade to MCE-Vista

From what I understand, only prebuilt systems which have been approved by cable labs will be able to record HD using cablecard. We will not be able to build our own MCE boxes anymore. At least not one that can record HD. I never want to own a Time Warner DVR. The interface blows chunks. But in the next year or 2 I may have no choice.