HD functioning but very slow, please help.

[toddyus]

Let me start by saying that my server is under spec and is likely the cause for the problems I'm seeing -- but, what I'm trying to figure out is the best upgrade path.

Here's the deal, my system records, plays back and serves SD content locally and across the network flawlessly. Yesterday, I set up a DVICO Fusion5 USB ATSC tuner. Sage installed it fine and will play content (with some stuttering), but what concerns me most is that it takes a really long time to start the channel, issue any commands while the file is being played back, etc. Once I can convince Sage to change to an SD channel, this problem goes away immediately. CPU usage was not as high as I would have expected (don't remember exact figure, but not maxed out.) If I play the stream directly (no writing to disk) using the DVICO software, playback of anything but 1080i streams is very clean. (1080i plays but stutters - I assume because of extra load to deinterlace?)

Here's what I'm running:
Athlon XP 2000+
768 MB RAM
Radeon 7000 32MB (DXVA enabled)
2 - 7200 RPM ATA 100 drives (160GB & 200GB)
Hauppauge 250
Avermedia 150 MCE
DVICO Fusion5 USB
Sage 4.0 (latest, non-beta build)
Using: VMR, Direct 3d accel., Sage decoders, DXVA mode B

Think that's all the relevant stuff. I would love to hear experienced recommendations on an ideal upgrade path, i.e. can I get away with a new CPU or graphics card only, new CPU and graphics card both, do I also need new hard drives, should I go 64-bit? And, I'd appreciate any priorities you'd place on the upgrade, i.e. start with a new graphics card, if that doesn't have perfect results, upgrade the CPU, etc. Please bear in mind, the advantage for me with Sage has always been running a stable system with minimal specs.


Thanks.

[jptaz]

1. Try changing to Overlay instead of VMR9.

2. Try to use decoders other than the ones included with SageTV. I suspect that just doing that will make the system usable. I would start with New Video Decoders. Download trial versions of NVidia and others and see how things go. I suspect $20+ on decoders will go a long way.

I playback on an Althon XP 2000+ and my video card is a little better, but really not by much.

I would go to a video card next and it doesn't need to be super expensive, just more memory and better support for Video technologies DX9. I serious doubt that you will have a problem once you get a better decoder. I hardly use any CPU when I am playing back HD on my 2000+.

John

[toddyus]

Thanks for the reply.

That's actually more encouraging than I expected. I'll try the Nvidia decoders tonight. I also have another machine in the house that has a Radeon 8500 with 64 MB Ram. I wonder if that would make any difference...

Incidentally, since I posted originally, I tried playing back a completed, recorded HD file and that seemed to be slightly smoother than playing it back while it was recording. While that was playing, CPU was at about 75% which isn't great, but it still isn't maxed out. Not sure what the format was (720P or 1080i) - is there a way to check that?

Thanks again -- I'll update once I try the different decoders.

[heffe2001]

Make sure you go into the decoders configuration panel and select it to prefer the renderer you're using, it took my HD machine from stuttering, to smooth playback by making it prefer VMR9 (with it set to anything else, it just wouldn't play back correctly).

[GbrNole]

that radeon 7000 sure doesn't make it any more easy... just not enough bandwidth for HD.

[jchiso]

I have a few systems with comparable hardware, but I use PowerDVD decoders and graphics adapters with 9000-series Radeon chipsets. I did try a 7000-series card several months ago but was unable to achieve smooth HD playback.

[toddyus]

Well, I tried everyone's (much-appreciated) suggestions, but still no luck. I started with the Nvidia PureVideo decoders (perhaps there are different decoders that work better?), but that didn't help. Actually crashed the application the first time I ran it. I also played around with Overlay/VMR, etc, but same results.

It looks like the Radeon 7000 just isn't going to cut it. I tried playing back an HD file across the network (10/100 wired) on an Athlon XP1600+ with a Radeon 8500 -- It was stuttery but didn't bog down the application as much. Menu transitions and commands worked much better than on the server.

So, in the interest of the most economical solution, what do you think is better: 1) add a 6600GT and leave the rest of the system as is or 2) add a lesser video card and upgrade the CPU?

If the latter, what combos do you recommend? Are there other factors I need to consider?

Thanks for all the help!

[jptaz]

Before giving up on the software solution I would download trial version of PowerDVD, Intervideo, and other decoders first. The NVidia are popular, but not always the best choice.

But if you feel you have exhausted all those options I think that you should start with a better video card.

I have PNY 6600GT that I got from NewEgg for $140 ( Dual DVI and Component Dongle for HD - I am only using 1 DVI now). I would be surprised if that doesn't solve the problem. You could get an ATI 9600 Pro in the $80 range, but it seems like you would be better off spending a little more money will get a better card.

I don't think you should go with PNY, but that card fit the bill with the dual DVI for my needs...other brands are probably better and PNY is really bad about their rebates. I am fighting with them now over the $40 rebate...they claim I didn't send the information needed UPC and Bill of sale.

John

[jchiso]

It seems like I keep answering this question in various forums around here. I have several systems running clients to HD servers and am able to achieve playback on systems with processors as weak as a 1 GHz Duron. This system in particular uses a Radeon 9200 AGP 4X card (Gigabyte) with overlay and Cyberlink's PowerDVD (v5) decoders. I also have (or have had) fully functioning HD systems with 1.6 GHz Durons, AthlonXP 2200+ and 1.8 GHz Durons. Each of these systems uses Radeon 9000-series AGP 8X graphics adapters, PowerDVD decoders with overlay, and system memory of 512MB.

So for the combination of motherboard, CPU, video adapter and system memory you need not spend more than $180 online.

[jptaz]

It sounds like no matter how you cut it a new video card will solve the problem along with PowerDVD or some other Decoder that can take advantage of the hardware acceleration on the card. Unless you really want a new CPU, but I really don't think it is needed.

I have had much better luck with my HDTV using NVidia cards and drivers....I spent about 5 hours trying to get a ATI Radeon 9000 to work with my HD Set and gave up and went back to an old NVidia FX 5200.

John

[elitevsx]

can anyone link me to the purevideo codecs...

I downloaded it, and I am able to select it in the sage menu but I dont seem to have the nvidia interface that ive seen posted here.....although that could be a different software suit....

Just want to make sure im trying the correct codecs....Im having the same problem with my system and I only have a few days left on my sage trial to figure it out. Gotta get SDTV worked out before I tackle HD

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by elitevsx

can anyone link me to the purevideo codecs...

I downloaded it, and I am able to select it in the sage menu but I dont seem to have the nvidia interface that ive seen posted here.....although that could be a different software suit....

Just want to make sure im trying the correct codecs....Im having the same problem with my system and I only have a few days left on my sage trial to figure it out. Gotta get SDTV worked out before I tackle HD

That seems to be a common problem. The control panel applet does not show up on the taskbar when Sage is using the codecs. If you pop a DVD in to the drive and launch WMP to play it, you can get to the control panel.

B

[Wheemer]

The taskbar icon shows up fine for me... I leave sage on default for the decoder setting. Since Nvidia's Purevideo installs itself as the highest priority decoder anyways.

[toddyus]

Originally Posted by jchiso

It seems like I keep answering this question in various forums around here. I have several systems running clients to HD servers and am able to achieve playback on systems with processors as weak as a 1 GHz Duron. This system in particular uses a Radeon 9200 AGP 4X card (Gigabyte) with overlay and Cyberlink's PowerDVD (v5) decoders. I also have (or have had) fully functioning HD systems with 1.6 GHz Durons, AthlonXP 2200+ and 1.8 GHz Durons. Each of these systems uses Radeon 9000-series AGP 8X graphics adapters, PowerDVD decoders with overlay, and system memory of 512MB.

So for the combination of motherboard, CPU, video adapter and system memory you need not spend more than $180 online.

I definitely don't want to upgrade anything I don't need to. I actually enjoy fooling around with Sage, but anything I do has to meet the wife-approved metric of "cheaper than a set-top box." At least for the functionality.

So, now my dilemma is this: do I play it safe and get something like a 6600 gt or do I take a chance with an FX5700 or a Radeon 9600..? Is there any vendor that allows returns/exchanges of video cards?

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by jchiso

It seems like I keep answering this question in various forums around here. I have several systems running clients to HD servers and am able to achieve playback on systems with processors as weak as a 1 GHz Duron. This system in particular uses a Radeon 9200 AGP 4X card (Gigabyte) with overlay and Cyberlink's PowerDVD (v5) decoders. I also have (or have had) fully functioning HD systems with 1.6 GHz Durons, AthlonXP 2200+ and 1.8 GHz Durons. Each of these systems uses Radeon 9000-series AGP 8X graphics adapters, PowerDVD decoders with overlay, and system memory of 512MB.

So for the combination of motherboard, CPU, video adapter and system memory you need not spend more than $180 online.

What resolutions are you outputting on those lower-spec'ed Durons? I ask because I can run HD on a SD TV perfectly fine with a 1.6ghz P4, 512m & a 5900XT video card, but that same combo chokes on anything other than Svideo out. Can't run it DVI to the HD TV at a decent resolution without stutters on HD material.

Originally Posted by toddyus

I definitely don't want to upgrade anything I don't need to. I actually enjoy fooling around with Sage, but anything I do has to meet the wife-approved metric of "cheaper than a set-top box." At least for the functionality.

So, now my dilemma is this: do I play it safe and get something like a 6600 gt or do I take a chance with an FX5700 or a Radeon 9600..? Is there any vendor that allows returns/exchanges of video cards?

As far as I know, NewEgg has about the best return policy, might want to check them out for a video card.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by heffe2001

What resolutions are you outputting on those lower-spec'ed Durons? I ask because I can run HD on a SD TV perfectly fine with a 1.6ghz P4, 512m & a 5900XT video card, but that same combo chokes on anything other than Svideo out. Can't run it DVI to the HD TV at a decent resolution without stutters on HD material.

The 1 GHz Duron runs at 1280x720 via VGA. This system does not contain an HD capture card but does play back HD transport streams from designated 'Import Library' directories.

The 1.6 GHz Durons have worked with HD content as both servers and clients. All of the resolutions I have run have worked; 1280x720, 1200x800, 1680x1050, 1024x768 and 1072x600. I don't have any native 1080i displays so I have not tried 1920x1080.

[toddyus]

I decided, as recommended, to start by upgrading the video card. I priced out several options, and while there certainly were less expensive options, I ultimately decided to play it safe and ordered a 6600gt (agp) from Newegg for $119 after a rebate.

Jchiso, based on your experience, you made it very hard for me to not buy a Radeon 9200, or similar. My only concern with your specs was that you hadn't run 1080i which I will be doing. As I mentioned in my original post, playing hd streams without timeshifting works fine except for 1080i.

I'm hoping this will be the only necessary upgrade. I should have the card by late next week. I'll keep you updated -- wish me luck!

Either way, thanks for all the great responses. This may not be over yet!

[toddyus]

Okay, so I got and installed the 6600gt card last night. I also reinstalled the trial of the purevideo decoders. The install went fine, as far as I can tell. Sage is functioning fine with SD content in VMR and overlay, but HD still won't play back correctly.

With the Intervideo nonCSS decoder and the Sage decoder, HD content loads slowly (spinning Sage icon for 30 seconds or more) and then stutters badly. The purevideo decoder loaded even more slowly, then crashed Sage before anything played back. The best result I could get was on Overlay with a Cyberlink decoder that played back smoothly for about 7 seconds before crashing Sage.

For what it's worth, the file I was trying to play back was captured before I installed the new video card, but I don't think that should matter.

I saw someone suggest in another post that you "turn on" DXVA in the Nvidia driver. I'm not sure how I am supposed to do this.

By the way, 720p content plays live and timeshifts perfectly in the Dvico software. 1080i content still stutters in that application, though not as badly.

Any suggestions?

[Steve52]

Originally Posted by toddyus

Okay, so I got and installed the 6600gt card last night. I also reinstalled the trial of the purevideo decoders. The install went fine, as far as I can tell. Sage is functioning fine with SD content in VMR and overlay, but HD still won't play back correctly.

With the Intervideo nonCSS decoder and the Sage decoder, HD content loads slowly (spinning Sage icon for 30 seconds or more) and then stutters badly. The purevideo decoder loaded even more slowly, then crashed Sage before anything played back. The best result I could get was on Overlay with a Cyberlink decoder that played back smoothly for about 7 seconds before crashing Sage.

For what it's worth, the file I was trying to play back was captured before I installed the new video card, but I don't think that should matter.

I saw someone suggest in another post that you "turn on" DXVA in the Nvidia driver. I'm not sure how I am supposed to do this.

By the way, 720p content plays live and timeshifts perfectly in the Dvico software. 1080i content still stutters in that application, though not as badly.

Any suggestions?

I don't have any suggestions, but I can tell you that I am having the same problem with HD. I am using a VBOX DTA-150 Card. My video is onboard Nvidia 6150. If you find the problem please post.

[Steve52]

I seem to have fixed my problems by reinstalling PureVideo to the latest version. You might try that.